Top Law Schools

I didn't anticipate asking this question but quite simply GULC's ASW this past week surprised me in that:

1) I didn't meet a single prospective that felt convinced to go
2) The gratuitous amount of shit talking by the prospectives about anything and everything GULC related

I personally was leaning towards GULC for its location as I am uncertain on the type of law I will be eventually pursuing. It seemed GULC would offer the best standard of living for the next three years. The difference in ranking seemed trivial.

But, it seems like a good time to re-evaluate my decision.

Note: I am likely to receive scholly money from GULC but I'm unsure about NU & Duke so far. But lets think of it as all things equal.

Edit:

GULC - $65k, updated to $170k
Duke - $54k
Northwestern $0k
USC - $90k

Edit (4/13): GULC just update their scholarship offer to 105k on top of their 65k tuition grant making it 170k overall.

GULC's placement trails the rest of the T14 and by a decent amount. It's in DC yet doesn't place better in DC (and arguably places worse) than the other schools in the T14. GULC is ridiculously expensive due to cost of living.

I'm assuming you want to work in DC and all these schools will cost you equal tuition-wise after scholarship offers. If so I'd take Duke because of the cheap CoL and relatively equal placement to NU.

Duke/NU > GULC
- GULC is a fine school but it has such a large class that people believe (correctly i think) that it hurts their job prospects
-Duke/NU are both great schools go to the one you feel more comfortable at, they both will give you better opportunities than GULC

barry wrote:Duke/NU > GULC
- GULC is a fine school but it has such a large class that people believe (correctly i think) that it hurts their job prospects
-Duke/NU are both great schools go to the one you feel more comfortable at, they both will give you better opportunities than GULC

Class size isn't really relevant. Harvard has a huge class size. So does UVa.

bk187 wrote:

barry wrote:Duke/NU > GULC
- GULC is a fine school but it has such a large class that people believe (correctly i think) that it hurts their job prospects
-Duke/NU are both great schools go to the one you feel more comfortable at, they both will give you better opportunities than GULC

Class size isn't really relevant. Harvard has a huge class size. So does UVa.

it actually is, Harvard is harvard and UVA has 350 kids per class (not that big) compared to 700+ kids per class at GULC

barry wrote:it actually is, Harvard is harvard and UVA has 350 kids per class (not that big) compared to 700+ kids per class at GULC

I like your sound logic there on Harvard. You're right on UVa though (I thought it was bigger for some reason).

Class size is not relevant to the discussion because the prospects are what they are the class size is what it is. If Yale cut its class size to 1 kid then I'm sure they could 100% Supreme Court Clerkship rates every year, but they aren't going to do that.

In this sense, all schools are hurt by their class size in the sense that they might all be able to place better if they had fewer kids. Then again, it is hard to tell considering many firms really care about class rank and it wouldn't necessarily change their opinion of hiring top 1/3 at GULC whether it had 300 kids or 600 kids.

bk187 wrote:

barry wrote:it actually is, Harvard is harvard and UVA has 350 kids per class (not that big) compared to 700+ kids per class at GULC

I like your sound logic there on Harvard. You're right on UVa though (I thought it was bigger for some reason).

Class size is not relevant to the discussion because the prospects are what they are the class size is what it is. If Yale cut its class size to 1 kid then I'm sure they could 100% Supreme Court Clerkship rates every year, but they aren't going to do that.

In this sense, all schools are hurt by their class size in the sense that they might all be able to place better if they had fewer kids. Then again, it is hard to tell considering many firms really care about class rank and it wouldn't necessarily change their opinion of hiring top 1/3 at GULC whether it had 300 kids or 600 kids.

sorry brah, let me be try to be more logical, Harvard has more prestige than GULC (see USNWR peer scores/ lawyer judge scores) and its students are more desirable to employers (see NLJ and Clerkship numbers) and so they can field a large class and still place most all of them into good positions (harvard has a smaller class than GULC too btw i wanna say like 500 kids)

yes, all schools are hurt by their class size so less kids generally (assuming equal prestige) = better job prospects. GULC has a similar reputation to duke/NU (DCNG) but have worse prospects b/c of they have a far bigger class (700 v 200)... if GULC cut its PT program (another problem) and cut its class size to the 200 size of duke then of course they would be able to place a higher percentage of kids... as to class rank they could obfuscate that like Penn through the grading system but i still think that employers would dig deeper percentage wise if there were less kids to take... there is also another issue related to class size, the smaller the class the more attention and resources that Career Services can usually devote to individual students which can make a difference especially at the margins

i get what you are saying ... it is what it is, i was just trying to frame the issue so the OP got why ppl give shit to GULC

bk187 wrote:

barry wrote:Duke/NU > GULC
- GULC is a fine school but it has such a large class that people believe (correctly i think) that it hurts their job prospects
-Duke/NU are both great schools go to the one you feel more comfortable at, they both will give you better opportunities than GULC

Class size isn't really relevant. Harvard has a huge class size. So does UVa.

Harvard is Harvard, and GULC's class size is almost double UVA's.

rayiner wrote:

bk187 wrote:

barry wrote:Duke/NU > GULC
- GULC is a fine school but it has such a large class that people believe (correctly i think) that it hurts their job prospects
-Duke/NU are both great schools go to the one you feel more comfortable at, they both will give you better opportunities than GULC

Class size isn't really relevant. Harvard has a huge class size. So does UVa.

Harvard is Harvard, and GULC's class size is almost double UVA's.

I didn't really explain myself clear enough which is why I responded again above.

bk187 wrote:

rayiner wrote:

bk187 wrote:

barry wrote:Duke/NU > GULC
- GULC is a fine school but it has such a large class that people believe (correctly i think) that it hurts their job prospects
-Duke/NU are both great schools go to the one you feel more comfortable at, they both will give you better opportunities than GULC

Class size isn't really relevant. Harvard has a huge class size. So does UVa.

Harvard is Harvard, and GULC's class size is almost double UVA's.

I didn't really explain myself clear enough which is why I responded again above.

You're still wrong. GULC has worse prospects than Duke and NU, that's factually accurate. The reason for those worse prospects is class size.

rayiner wrote:You're still wrong. GULC has worse prospects than Duke and NU, that's factually accurate. The reason for those worse prospects is class size.

I didn't say GULC was better than Duke/NU.

My problem is that when people moan about GULC's class size it seems to imply that their prospects are even worse than reality because the class size drags it down further rather than the prospects being what they are and the class size being what it is.

They aren't going to drastically change their class size so it's kind of a moot point. GULC's prospects (like all schools) is a function of prestige and class size. At a place like Harvard prestige is high enough to compensate, at GULC it isn't. I just feel like there isn't really a point in bringing up the functional components of job prospects as if you could somehow separate prestige from class size and actually note the "pure" amount of prestige.

I guess my overall point was that every school's class size hurts its prospects in a technical sense. Minor gripe but I think the point is worth making.

barry wrote:

bk187 wrote:

barry wrote:it actually is, Harvard is harvard and UVA has 350 kids per class (not that big) compared to 700+ kids per class at GULC

I like your sound logic there on Harvard. You're right on UVa though (I thought it was bigger for some reason).

Class size is not relevant to the discussion because the prospects are what they are the class size is what it is. If Yale cut its class size to 1 kid then I'm sure they could 100% Supreme Court Clerkship rates every year, but they aren't going to do that.

In this sense, all schools are hurt by their class size in the sense that they might all be able to place better if they had fewer kids. Then again, it is hard to tell considering many firms really care about class rank and it wouldn't necessarily change their opinion of hiring top 1/3 at GULC whether it had 300 kids or 600 kids.

sorry brah, let me be try to be more logical, Harvard has more prestige than GULC (see USNWR peer scores/ lawyer judge scores) and its students are more desirable to employers (see NLJ and Clerkship numbers) and so they can field a large class and still place most all of them into good positions (harvard has a smaller class than GULC too btw i wanna say like 500 kids)

yes, all schools are hurt by their class size so less kids generally (assuming equal prestige) = better job prospects. GULC has a similar reputation to duke/NU (DCNG) but have worse prospects b/c of they have a far bigger class (700 v 200)... if GULC cut its PT program (another problem) and cut its class size to the 200 size of duke then of course they would be able to place a higher percentage of kids... as to class rank they could obfuscate that like Penn through the grading system but i still think that employers would dig deeper percentage wise if there were less kids to take... there is also another issue related to class size, the smaller the class the more attention and resources that Career Services can usually devote to individual students which can make a difference especially at the margins

i get what you are saying ... it is what it is, i was just trying to frame the issue so the OP got why ppl give shit to GULC

Wow, thanks guys for the quick replies.

A quick clarification--in regards to location I just meant somewhere not in the middle of nowhere to be at school, not necessarily career wise. Basically, that meant leaning towards major metro areas but Duke seems like too good of a school to just go poo on because its in Durham. I'm a native of LA and I might want to eventually practice back in California. Does that change the equation?

bk187 - the class size disadvantaged was touched upon twice by the alumni panel. There justification is that firms have a certain quota of GULC students because they take into account the fact that GULC has such a large class. I'm not sure if I'm convinced by that.

Barry - the career services problem is troubling. with so many students, i think they're stressed as it is. Although, the cute asian lady that works in the admissions office sat down with me and reviewed my file personally about my scholly status. I thought that was a nice touch.

If you want to practice in LA after graduation I would definitely be leaning towards Duke or NU (probably Duke). Heck, for pretty much everything I'd take Duke/NU over GULC.

kobebeef wrote: A quick clarification--in regards to location I just meant somewhere not in the middle of nowhere to be at school, not necessarily career wise. Basically, that meant leaning towards major metro areas but Duke seems like too good of a school to just go poo on because its in Durham. I'm a native of LA and I might want to eventually practice back in California. Does that change the equation?

If you care about being in an urban (or even interesting) environment then NU is really TCR.

Duke and NU are going to place about equally in CA (neither one has a strong pull in that market though).

bk187 wrote:

rayiner wrote:You're still wrong. GULC has worse prospects than Duke and NU, that's factually accurate. The reason for those worse prospects is class size.

I didn't say GULC was better than Duke/NU.

My problem is that when people moan about GULC's class size it seems to imply that their prospects are even worse than reality because the class size drags it down further rather than the prospects being what they are and the class size being what it is.

They aren't going to drastically change their class size so it's kind of a moot point. GULC's prospects (like all schools) is a function of prestige and class size. At a place like Harvard prestige is high enough to compensate, at GULC it isn't. I just feel like there isn't really a point in bringing up the functional components of job prospects as if you could somehow separate prestige from class size and actually note the "pure" amount of prestige.

I guess my overall point was that every school's class size hurts its prospects in a technical sense. Minor gripe but I think the point is worth making.

You're in the most competitive market in the nation, dumping the largest class size in your 'peer' group into that market.

There's your problem.

By the way - Duke or NU; NU is not bad for West Coast is you have some actual ties to the location.

YourCaptain wrote:
You're in the most competitive market in the nation, dumping the largest class size in your 'peer' group into that market.

There's your problem.

By the way - Duke or NU; NU is not bad for West Coast is you have some actual ties to the location.

GULC sends as many if not more students to NYC compared to DC. I'm unconvinced that if all of their students aimed for NYC that they'd have better employment stats than they do now.

Its between NU and Duke here for me. All things being equal I would slightly lean towards NU.

Just a quick update to this thread:

GULC (65k): Dean's Tuition Grant (Anyone know if this is separate from the merit scholarships?)

Duke (54k): Duke Law Scholarship

NU (0k): Really? I'm hoping they give me something after their initial financial aid deadline. I think they're being a bit stingy.

USC (90k)

Thoughts?

With those $s Duke is the clear leader.

How much WE do you have? Weird that NU offered you zero if you have 2+ years.

bdubs wrote:With those $s Duke is the clear leader.

How much WE do you have? Weird that NU offered you zero if you have 2+ years.

They told me, weirdly enough, that they ran out of scholarship funds three days after my fin. aid/scholarship form was turned in on time. I have two years of experience running a small business. I did apply late (Jan 25th) and they did accept me late (March 9th or so). I'm hoping after their scholarship deadline of the 22nd that some extra funds will open up.

Anyone know which school's seat deposits are binding? I know Duke's is.

kobebeef wrote:1) I didn't meet a single prospective that felt convinced to go
2) The gratuitous amount of shit talking by the prospectives about anything and everything GULC related

Yikes, this is actually kinda depressing. GULC lags behind the T13, but it's still one of the best schools in the country. Let's have some perspective, people.

Also, I'll throw in my obligatory "Go to Duke."

beachbum wrote:

kobebeef wrote:1) I didn't meet a single prospective that felt convinced to go
2) The gratuitous amount of shit talking by the prospectives about anything and everything GULC related

Yikes, this is actually kinda depressing. GULC lags behind the T13, but it's still one of the best schools in the country. Let's have some perspective, people.

Also, I'll throw in my obligatory "Go to Duke."

Ah, I see that you're Duke class of 2014. I think I'm gonna go visit next week but haven't decided yet.

beachbum wrote:

kobebeef wrote:1) I didn't meet a single prospective that felt convinced to go
2) The gratuitous amount of shit talking by the prospectives about anything and everything GULC related

Yikes, this is actually kinda depressing. GULC lags behind the T13, but it's still one of the best schools in the country. Let's have some perspective, people.

Also, I'll throw in my obligatory "Go to Duke."

Oh god please change your avatar. I can't stand looking at that guy.

FiveSermon wrote:

beachbum wrote:

kobebeef wrote:1) I didn't meet a single prospective that felt convinced to go
2) The gratuitous amount of shit talking by the prospectives about anything and everything GULC related

Yikes, this is actually kinda depressing. GULC lags behind the T13, but it's still one of the best schools in the country. Let's have some perspective, people.

Also, I'll throw in my obligatory "Go to Duke."

Oh god please change your avatar. I can't stand looking at that guy.

hrm, tough crowd. It's actually taken from ATL's Douchiest Law School competition (which Duke won), if that makes you feel any better. Or maybe I'm just going to Duke because I know I'll fit in.