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Hey everyone, this is my first time posting and I'm pretty desperate for some advice. The choice is between Columbia and WUSTL with 135k, and here is the situation ...

1. 135k at Wash U covers the tuition with some left over, plus since my parents live in St.Louis, I can live with them and will likely graduate with no debt. At Columbia, I'll be looking at 200K (which is a scary amount of debt)

2. I would definitely love to get a biglaw job, but I think I can live without one.

3. I'm not sure which area of law I want to go into yet, so it would nice to keep the options open

4. As of now, I want to work in NY for a while after graduation, but have no idea where I want to go afterwards

With deposit deadlines coming up... yeaa... I HAVE NO IDEA what to do!! is Columbia worth 200k???

Yes Columbia is worth 200k but you have a tough decision. You definitely have a good case/reason to decide on WUSTL though, especially given that you're not dead set on Biglaw

You want NYC biglaw? Easily Columbia

Yes, it is worth 200k... both great options but lead different ways, think about what type of career you want

Choose WUSTL. Facing a more difficult road to employment > $200k in debt.

Keeping your debt down gives you a lot more options and will save you if you don't get biglaw, WUSTL.

Would you rather wonder "what if I had gone to Columbia", or "what could I be doing with my life if I wasn't being crushed by debt right now?".

I voted CLS because I'm a prestige whore.

is there no in-between? if you got into Columbia, I would think you'd have $$$ a little lower down with good prospects in NYC.

.

Yes, Columbia is worth 200K. But that doesn't settle the issue, because a free JD from the #18 law school in the country is also very valuable.

They're both fantastic choices so don't sweat it.

Which is more important to you? Working in NY after graduation (which indicates CLS), or having no debt (which indicates WUSTL)? Go with your gut after visiting.

For me: WUSTL. But that means nothing.

Eh, I've got the same problem basically, with CLS/NYU at sticker versus UCLA with 132 in cash money so far. I'm probably going to do NYU. Debt can be paid back, post-graduation options cannot be recovered.

"is columbia worth 200k" isn't the question.
the question is "is columbia worth 200k more than WashU".

the answer to that is no.
do you know what 200k is?
do you know what the interest on 200k is?
do you know what the monthly payment on a 20 year 200k dollar loan is?

columbia's just a school in the new york area, there are many of them. if you got 200k from WashU and want NYC then why no fordham full ride?

OL prestige whores; you're ignorant people.

I'm not a 0L and I would pick Columbia in a heartbeat.

Still, I'm surprised there isn't an in-between option. None of ChiNMVPBDNC gave you $$?

inSouthAmerica wrote:"is columbia worth 200k" isn't the question.
the question is "is columbia worth 200k more than WashU".

the answer to that is no.
do you know what 200k is?
do you know what the interest on 200k is?
do you know what the monthly payment on a 20 year 200k dollar loan is?

columbia's just a school in the new york area, there are many of them. if you got 200k from WashU and want NYC then why no fordham full ride?

OL prestige whores; you're ignorant people.

It's more like 150k difference but considering the difference in job opportunities between the two is likely seven figures worth of lifetime income, it seems like a good investment.

keg411 wrote: Still, I'm surprised there isn't an in-between option. None of ChiNMVPBDNC gave you $$?

I'm surprised about this too. I would choose Columbia but I want the east coast

74K a year!? So taking into account the slight increase over the next 2 years, sticker is over a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS!!

Patriot1208 wrote:

inSouthAmerica wrote:"is columbia worth 200k" isn't the question.
the question is "is columbia worth 200k more than WashU".

the answer to that is no.
do you know what 200k is?
do you know what the interest on 200k is?
do you know what the monthly payment on a 20 year 200k dollar loan is?

columbia's just a school in the new york area, there are many of them. if you got 200k from WashU and want NYC then why no fordham full ride?

OL prestige whores; you're ignorant people.

It's more like 150k difference but considering the difference in job opportunities between the two is likely seven figures worth of lifetime income, it seems like a good investment.

I'm interested in this topic, because I'm fortunate enough to be in a similar boat. How do you figure that? Sure, it can be that different financially for two people who go balls out for money their entire careers, but if OP wants a few years of biglaw to cut his teeth, and then a family friendly in-house job, it's not as true. Or is it?

if it was just an issue of life time earnings i might agree that it was a good investment, however the debt difference set OP back many years in building that wealth and prevent OP from pursuing lower paying callings. id much rather keep my options open. id be interested to know how scholarship kids do at washu but if its like my school, where the scholarship kids rock their grades then id much rather be at the top of washu with no debt. OP is from saint louis, it cant possibly be worth it for OP to go to columbia for 200k v washu for free, believing otherwise is not sanity.

and keg, sorry to disagree, but you know me, i couldn't advocate for the prestige if i wanted to.

I can't believe you guys are advocating this kid to go a quarter of a million dollars into debt and possibly ruin his life, given the information he provided.
OP, there are so many other avenues that would suit you given your info that wouldn't involve such crushing debt. Did you apply to Cornell or Fordham?

The guy sounds like he doesn't really know what he wants to do yet, or where he wants to be. He didn't say "I am dead set on academia" or "I want a prestigious federal clerkship". Pretty much all he said was "biglaw would be great!". No way does that input justify that kind of debt.

delusional wrote:

Patriot1208 wrote:

inSouthAmerica wrote:"is columbia worth 200k" isn't the question.
the question is "is columbia worth 200k more than WashU".

the answer to that is no.
do you know what 200k is?
do you know what the interest on 200k is?
do you know what the monthly payment on a 20 year 200k dollar loan is?

columbia's just a school in the new york area, there are many of them. if you got 200k from WashU and want NYC then why no fordham full ride?

OL prestige whores; you're ignorant people.

It's more like 150k difference but considering the difference in job opportunities between the two is likely seven figures worth of lifetime income, it seems like a good investment.

I'm interested in this topic, because I'm fortunate enough to be in a similar boat. How do you figure that? Sure, it can be that different financially for two people who go balls out for money their entire careers, but if OP wants a few years of biglaw to cut his teeth, and then a family friendly in-house job, it's not as true. Or is it?

Think about a 30-40 year career. For 1mil At 35 years that is an average of an extra 28.5k for year. That is more than likely with the years in big law and the exit opportunities you get from big law. It's more likely to be closer to a 2 million dollar difference on average. Not to mention the possibility it'll be much, much more.

inSouthAmerica wrote:if it was just an issue of life time earnings i might agree that it was a good investment, however the debt difference set OP back many years in building that wealth and prevent OP from pursuing lower paying callings. id much rather keep my options open. id be interested to know how scholarship kids do at washu but if its like my school, where the scholarship kids rock their grades then id much rather be at the top of washu with no debt. OP is from saint louis, it cant possibly be worth it for OP to go to columbia for 200k v washu for free, believing otherwise is not sanity.

That fact that he is from St. Louis means he can get back. Also, most in biglaw pay off the debt within a 5-10 year period so very little interest is accrued and it certainly isn't setting anyone back with that type of employment.

I vote for Columbia. I was in basically the same situation last year, but with some CLS scholly $ and I truly do believe it's worth it. I didn't fully realize until I got here, that people in the legal industry and are absolute snobs and prestige suckers. I don't think you can match the connections and job opportunities you will get from coming here. Consider the fact that some of the jobs you want won't even look at your resume if you are get your JD from WashU or if they did, you would need to be in the top 5% of your class, versus going to CLS where the grade cutoff will be much lower.

And if you want NY, this is the top school in the market. If you want NYC from WashU, it's going to be tough. And if you want Chicago, remember that there are several schools ahead of you in that food chain. At the end of the day, don't let the money stop you. Because you can pay off the debt and you will have the CLS degree for the rest of your life. What are the odds that you will regret that?

Patriot1208 wrote:

delusional wrote: It's more like 150k difference but considering the difference in job opportunities between the two is likely seven figures worth of lifetime income, it seems like a good investment.

I'm interested in this topic, because I'm fortunate enough to be in a similar boat. How do you figure that? Sure, it can be that different financially for two people who go balls out for money their entire careers, but if OP wants a few years of biglaw to cut his teeth, and then a family friendly in-house job, it's not as true. Or is it?

Patriot1208 wrote: Think about a 30-40 year career. For 1mil At 35 years that is an average of an extra 28.5k for year. That is more than likely with the years in big law and the exit opportunities you get from big law. It's more likely to be closer to a 2 million dollar difference on average. Not to mention the possibility it'll be much, much more.

You really didn't address what I wrote. I agree that for two people interested in nothing but money, the Columbia guy is waaayy ahead. And if he invests the difference, he's even further ahead.

But what about a guy who gets biglaw with $200000 of debt vs. a guy who gets $50,000 at a more local establishment with $10,000 of debt? Mr. biglaw wants to pay his debt fast, so he's essentially making 80-90,000 after taxes. And since he isn't going to make partner, he's gotta get out and take a big pay cut after four years - say $140,000 a year, still with $70,000 in debt. Meanwhile, the other guy is steadily working his way up, and is at 65,0000 after those four years, with no debt. The gap is getting narrower, not wider.

I don't know much from personal experience, but it seems plausible. Feel free to disabuse me.