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Any help would be appriciated. I do not have a lot of regional preference. I am not sure what I what to do. COA's are rough. I do want to have a family and I do not care all that much about prestige for its own sake. I have visited and I am still unsure.

I think the best value might be Cornell?

Given no regional preference, I would go to UVa or Vandy for the most options. Your experience would be very enjoyable at either.

I picked UVA, but if you want BigLaw, I might switch that to Cornell.

JamMasterJ wrote:I picked UVA, but if you want BigLaw, I might switch that to Cornell.

I am not set on biglaw, but why would you say that. I think that that may be somewhat self-selection. The Uva students I talked to said that most everyone that wanted a firm job got one eventually even if it took a lot of work. They may not have meant biglaws firm jobs though, hard to say. The students at cornell were also really optimistic.

Law Sauce wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:I picked UVA, but if you want BigLaw, I might switch that to Cornell.

I am not set on biglaw, but why would you say that. I think that that may be somewhat self-selection. The Uva students I talked to said that most everyone that wanted a firm job got one eventually even if it took a lot of work. They may not have meant biglaws firm jobs though, hard to say. The students at cornell were also really optimistic.

Yeah... why? That doesn't make any sense to me.

drylo wrote:

Law Sauce wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:I picked UVA, but if you want BigLaw, I might switch that to Cornell.

I am not set on biglaw, but why would you say that. I think that that may be somewhat self-selection. The Uva students I talked to said that most everyone that wanted a firm job got one eventually even if it took a lot of work. They may not have meant biglaws firm jobs though, hard to say. The students at cornell were also really optimistic.

Yeah... why? That doesn't make any sense to me.

because cornell is heavily NYC focused so a lot of kids go into biglaw because there are comparatively many biglaw opportunities in NYC. also, i'd guess more UVA kids end up taking the government clerkship/PI route than cornell kids, but i can't be positive. however, i do think LS is correct about self selection, which makes Jay's point sorta null anyway.

i voted for UVA because i think it's marginally better and opens more doors/has a larger alumni base/has a happier school atmosphere. also i will be attending UVA in the fall and chose UVA over cornell as well (however, no $$ from cornell, so it was more of a no brainer)

I would say either UVA or Vandy. 77k from Vandy is a lot of money and it's an excellent school. But you can't go wrong with UVA, even at sticker.

I wouldn't go to Cornell unless you're dead set on NYC biglaw. And even then I think you have a better shot at that from UVA. Cornell's employment stats (other than at NYC biglaw firms) were not really much better than Vandy's. And there's no comparison in living in Nashville vs. Ithaca.

Looking at your options UVA or Cornell are the best choices. I would choose UVA because of the location. If you want big law you can't go wrong with either, however, Cornell places strong in NYC so if you want to end up in NYC you have a better option in Cornell. Plus it's 30,000 less for attendance.

duckmoney wrote:I would say either UVA or Vandy. 77k from Vandy is a lot of money and it's an excellent school. But you can't go wrong with UVA, even at sticker.

I wouldn't go to Cornell unless you're dead set on NYC biglaw. And even then I think you have a better shot at that from UVA. Cornell's employment stats (other than at NYC biglaw firms) were not really much better than Vandy's. And there's no comparison in living in Nashville vs. Ithaca.

Have you seen the 2010 stats?

Also lol @ better chance at NYC biglaw from UVA than Cornell.

I would go with UVA or Cornell here.

Well I picked Vanderbilt because it gives you a bit more mobility than Cornell for a bit cheaper and I'd prefer to have other options to just NYC. IDK if I'd pay sticker at UVA over those scholarships but it is a pretty tough choice.

UVa is a better option than Cornell at those prices, and Vandy is a better option than WUSTL at those prices. Most people seem to be on point that it should come down to UVa or Vandy. I think UVa is the better option, especially for someone who doesn't know what he wants and should thus leave as many doors open as possible.

showNprove wrote:UVa is a better option than Cornell at those prices, and Vandy is a better option than WUSTL at those prices. Most people seem to be on point that it should come down to UVa or Vandy. I think UVa is the better option, especially for someone who doesn't know what he wants and should thus leave as many doors open as possible.

Personal factors excluded, I agree with the bolded. Definitely about UVA being a better option than Cornell--if you want to pony up for the prestige factor, then pony up for the prestige factor.

whymeohgodno wrote:Also lol @ better chance at NYC biglaw from UVA than Cornell.

lol at you

drylo wrote:

showNprove wrote:UVa is a better option than Cornell at those prices, and Vandy is a better option than WUSTL at those prices. Most people seem to be on point that it should come down to UVa or Vandy. I think UVa is the better option, especially for someone who doesn't know what he wants and should thus leave as many doors open as possible.

Personal factors excluded, I agree with the bolded. Definitely about UVA being a better option than Cornell--if you want to pony up for the prestige factor, then pony up for the prestige factor.

whymeohgodno wrote:Also lol @ better chance at NYC biglaw from UVA than Cornell.

lol at you

You seriously believe UVA offers better NYC biglaw prospects than Cornell? LOL

whymeohgodno wrote:

drylo wrote:

showNprove wrote:UVa is a better option than Cornell at those prices, and Vandy is a better option than WUSTL at those prices. Most people seem to be on point that it should come down to UVa or Vandy. I think UVa is the better option, especially for someone who doesn't know what he wants and should thus leave as many doors open as possible.

Personal factors excluded, I agree with the bolded. Definitely about UVA being a better option than Cornell--if you want to pony up for the prestige factor, then pony up for the prestige factor.

whymeohgodno wrote:Also lol @ better chance at NYC biglaw from UVA than Cornell.

lol at you

You seriously believe UVA offers better NYC biglaw prospects than Cornell? LOL

Stats say that Cornell has better NYC biglaw prospects btw

Ok, all the cornell trolling needs to stop here. UVA will, on average, offer better biglaw prospects than Cornell. More prestigious firms will also dip farther into the class at UVA than they will at Cornell. The schools aren't far apart and cornell has had only one year that would be considered really superior to UVA. NLJ numbers are extremely useful, but they don't tell the whole story, and Cornell people need to realize that. NYC is the easiest market to break into from any school, it's not a region that is hard to get a job in, so you don't need to go to cornell to have a better chance at a job in NYC. If you could get NYC biglaw from Cornell, you could easily get it from UVA. There isn't going to be any instance where someone, in the same situation bidding on the same firms, would get shut out from UVA but not from Cornell. And UVA does, without a doubt, offer slightly better opportunities overall. Jesus, Cornell is a good school and the two are essentially peers, but whymeohgodno you have got to stop the trolling.

By far my favorite part of the new NLJ numbers has been the people trying to discount Cornell's great performance (that and the Cornell trolls . . . not sure if I am one). Some gems from this thread:

drylo wrote: Definitely about UVA being a better option than Cornell--if you want to pony up for the prestige factor, then pony up for the prestige factor.

The difference in prestige of the schools is so slight that it is almost insignificant. We are not talking Yale and Cornell here.

AreJay711 wrote:Well I picked Vanderbilt because it gives you a bit more mobility than Cornell for a bit cheaper and I'd prefer tohave other options to just NYC.

No. If OP is debt averse Vanderbilt offers a good value for the price.

duckmoney wrote:Cornell's employment stats (other than at NYC biglaw firms) were not really much better than Vandy's

Other than the fact I know nothing about medicine, I am a great doctor.


OP - The difference in $ at Cornell and UVA are not enough to choose Cornell if you prefer UVA, the differences in prestige is not enough to choose UVA if you prefer Cornell. Vandy is close, but not really in the same league as the other 2.

Patriot1208 wrote:Ok, all the cornell trolling needs to stop here. UVA will, on average, offer better biglaw prospects than Cornell. More prestigious firms will also dip farther into the class at UVA than they will at Cornell. The schools aren't far apart and cornell has had only one year that would be considered really superior to UVA. NLJ numbers are extremely useful, but they don't tell the whole story, and Cornell people need to realize that. NYC is the easiest market to break into from any school, it's not a region that is hard to get a job in, so you don't need to go to cornell to have a better chance at a job in NYC. If you could get NYC biglaw from Cornell, you could easily get it from UVA. There isn't going to be any instance where someone, in the same situation bidding on the same firms, would get shut out from UVA but not from Cornell. And UVA does, without a doubt, offer slightly better opportunities overall. Jesus, Cornell is a good school and the two are essentially peers, but whymeohgodno you have got to stop the trolling.

Thanks for having my back. I basically agree with this entire post. Also worth noting that UVA is notorious for sending a lot of people to clerk.

KMaine wrote:

drylo wrote: Definitely about UVA being a better option than Cornell--if you want to pony up for the prestige factor, then pony up for the prestige factor.

The difference in prestige of the schools is so slight that it is almost insignificant. We are not talking Yale and Cornell here.

Dude, I would say that the difference in prestige between UVA and Cornell is more significant than the difference between Cornell and Vandy. I mean, you can disagree, but at least outside of NYC, I think the majority of the world would agree with me.

KMaine wrote:OP - The difference in $ at Cornell and UVA are not enough to choose Cornell if you prefer UVA, the differences in prestige is not enough to choose UVA if you prefer Cornell. Vandy is close, but not really in the same league as the other 2.

Notwithstanding what I just said above, I am a firm believer in this as well. Of course, in the interest of consistency, I would also say the same thing about Vandy--if you would prefer to go UVA/Cornell, then do it, but if you like Vandy, you shouldn't feel like you have to go to UVA/Cornell.

Patriot1208 wrote:Ok, all the cornell trolling needs to stop here. UVA will, on average, offer better biglaw prospects than Cornell. More prestigious firms will also dip farther into the class at UVA than they will at Cornell. The schools aren't far apart and cornell has had only one year that would be considered really superior to UVA. NLJ numbers are extremely useful, but they don't tell the whole story, and Cornell people need to realize that. NYC is the easiest market to break into from any school, it's not a region that is hard to get a job in, so you don't need to go to cornell to have a better chance at a job in NYC. If you could get NYC biglaw from Cornell, you could easily get it from UVA. There isn't going to be any instance where someone, in the same situation bidding on the same firms, would get shut out from UVA but not from Cornell. And UVA does, without a doubt, offer slightly better opportunities overall. Jesus, Cornell is a good school and the two are essentially peers, but whymeohgodno you have got to stop the trolling.

Read the post. This isn't what I'm disputing at all LOL. What you said is pretty much a very non contentious way to say UVA is marginally better than NYC and it's better for other markets but it's probably a bit worse for NYC biglaw as a whole.

What some people on here were saying is UVA is probably better for NYC biglaw as a whole. HERP DERP.

I wonder if the poll results would have been the same if nlj250 numbers this year were the same as they were last year...

Drylo do you even look at any stats before you post? Article 3 clerkships at UVA were essentially the same as any of the other schools below the T6. "Notorious" for sending people into clerkships?

LOL. UVA =/= Yale bro. 1/3 the class does not get clerkships.

whymeohgodno wrote:Drylo do you even look at any stats before you post? Article 3 clerkships at UVA were essentially the same as any of the other schools below the T6. "Notorious" for sending people into clerkships?

LOL. UVA =/= Yale bro. 1/3 the class does not get clerkships.

UVA does have a reputation for sending a lot of people to clerk. I never said 1/3 of the class clerks. I never said UVA = Yale. What I said is that UVA has a reputation for producing a lot of clerks. The reason I said that was not even to say that more clerkships means that the school is more prestigious--I said it because it is relevant for the NLJ 250 numbers (and I can only assume that you are staking your entire position on the latest NLJ 250 numbers).

But because you insinuated that I don't look at statistics, I think now would be a good time for you to look at some: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=150681

UVA had almost twice as many Article III clerks (as a percentage of graduates--so easily more than twice as many clerks numerically) as Cornell in the Class of 2009.

And regarding NYC biglaw... You apparently think it is laughable to say that UVA has better prospects than Cornell. It is definitely not laughable. Check your logical reasoning. The fact that Cornell sends most of its graduates to NYC does not mean that NYC biglaw prospects are better from Cornell than UVA.

drylo wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:Drylo do you even look at any stats before you post? Article 3 clerkships at UVA were essentially the same as any of the other schools below the T6. "Notorious" for sending people into clerkships?

LOL. UVA =/= Yale bro. 1/3 the class does not get clerkships.

UVA does have a reputation for sending a lot of people to clerk. I never said 1/3 of the class clerks. I never said UVA = Yale. What I said is that UVA has a reputation for producing a lot of clerks. The reason I said that was not even to say that more clerkships means that the school is more prestigious--I said it because it is relevant for the NLJ 250 numbers (and I can only assume that you are staking your entire position on the latest NLJ 250 numbers).

But because you insinuated that I don't look at statistics, I think now would be a good time for you to look at some: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=150681

UVA had almost twice as many Article III clerks (as a percentage of graduates--so easily more than twice as many clerks numerically) as Cornell in the Class of 2009.

And regarding NYC biglaw... You apparently think it is laughable to say that UVA has better prospects than Cornell. It is definitely not laughable. Check your logical reasoning. The fact that Cornell sends most of its graduates to NYC does not mean that NYC biglaw prospects are better from Cornell than UVA.

Look.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... rk-ny.html

Numbers are probably outdated but still reflect the trend. Those are numbers for just NYC v100 firms. You might say what you will but 10%+ is a big difference. I'm not saying UVA is a shithole compared to Cornell for NYC but it's clear who is the winner.

whymeohgodno wrote:

drylo wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:Drylo do you even look at any stats before you post? Article 3 clerkships at UVA were essentially the same as any of the other schools below the T6. "Notorious" for sending people into clerkships?

LOL. UVA =/= Yale bro. 1/3 the class does not get clerkships.

UVA does have a reputation for sending a lot of people to clerk. I never said 1/3 of the class clerks. I never said UVA = Yale. What I said is that UVA has a reputation for producing a lot of clerks. The reason I said that was not even to say that more clerkships means that the school is more prestigious--I said it because it is relevant for the NLJ 250 numbers (and I can only assume that you are staking your entire position on the latest NLJ 250 numbers).

But because you insinuated that I don't look at statistics, I think now would be a good time for you to look at some: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=150681

UVA had almost twice as many Article III clerks (as a percentage of graduates--so easily more than twice as many clerks numerically) as Cornell in the Class of 2009.

And regarding NYC biglaw... You apparently think it is laughable to say that UVA has better prospects than Cornell. It is definitely not laughable. Check your logical reasoning. The fact that Cornell sends most of its graduates to NYC does not mean that NYC biglaw prospects are better from Cornell than UVA.

Look.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... rk-ny.html

Numbers are probably outdated but still reflect the trend. Those are numbers for just NYC v100 firms. You might say what you will but 10%+ is a big difference. I'm not saying UVA is a shithole compared to Cornell for NYC but it's clear who is the winner.

Outdated. And no source. But even assuming that those numbers accurately reflect outcomes, self-selection explains a lot in this case.

whymeohgodno wrote:
Look.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... rk-ny.html

Numbers are probably outdated but still reflect the trend. Those are numbers for just NYC v100 firms. You might say what you will but 10%+ is a big difference. I'm not saying UVA is a shithole compared to Cornell for NYC but it's clear who is the winner.

how have you been on this site that long with that many posts and still not understand the concept of self selection