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I'm trying to decide between these schools. I want to practice for a large firm in the Philadelphia/New York area after I graduate.

Penn State - $15,000/yr merit scholarship

Temple - (In State) - $2,500/yr merit scholarship

Villanova - Sticker Price

Help me!
Thanks!

Well, Temple.

2things2 wrote:Well, Temple.

Thanks for your reply Care to elaborate?

jwjbaek wrote:

2things2 wrote:Well, Temple.

Thanks for your reply Care to elaborate?

Philadelphia large firm placement is essentially equal to Villanova's (but at a much lower price). Penn State does not place as well in Philadelphia. It's mostly a York/Harrisburg/Lancaster school.

jwjbaek wrote:

2things2 wrote:Well, Temple.

Thanks for your reply Care to elaborate?

Haha my bad -- I was at the admitted students day yesterday, and I'm not sure if you were there or not but it was very impressive to say the least. The dean is incredibly personable and the professors seem absolutely brilliant, not to mention the alumni network around the area and the school's proximity to Philly, its the cats meow. This combined with the fact that Temple and Nova place better in Philly, and Temple's tuition is freakishly cheap in-state compared to Nova, to me its Temple and it's a no-brainer.

Villanova and Penn State both lost in the first round this year, so Temple.

I agree, Temple is the place. That's where Ill be this coming fall.

Villanova has the same, if not lower reputation (google "Villanova LSAT scandal") and placement as Temple, but they do have prettier buildings, so if that's worth $20,000 to you, or daddy is paying, then go for Villanova.

Penn State is a good school too, but if you wanted to practice law (in Philly no less), why would you go to school in Carlisle / State College? Check July's PA bar passage rate - Dickinson - 78% Beasely - 90%.

In my (biased) opinion, Temple is a much better school than its USN ranking indicates. Also I've been able to talk to a few senior counsel / in house types in the Phila. area who have expressed the opinion that Temple Law alum are very well regarded by recruiters. Temple will train you to be a lawyer, and give you a damn good shot at getting a job.

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That said, I can't speak to NYC placement, but seriously, don't waste your money, go to Temple bro.

usmcjag wrote:I agree, Temple is the place. That's where Ill be this coming fall.

Villanova has the same, if not lower reputation (google "Villanova LSAT scandal") and placement as Temple, but they do have prettier buildings, so if that's worth $20,000 to you, or daddy is paying, then go for Villanova.

Penn State is a good school too, but if you wanted to practice law (in Philly no less), why would you go to school in Carlisle / State College? Check July's PA bar passage rate - Dickinson - 78% Beasely - 90%.

In my (biased) opinion, Temple is a much better school than its USN ranking indicates. Also I've been able to talk to a few senior counsel / in house types in the Phila. area who have expressed the opinion that Temple Law alum are very well regarded by recruiters. Temple will train you to be a lawyer, and give you a damn good shot at getting a job.

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That said, I can't speak to NYC placement, but seriously, don't waste your money, go to Temple bro.

Thanks for your response, its helping me a lot. I will most likely end up in Temple...Villanova didn't give me any $ and I will be an in-state with Temple. How's the neighborhood in Temple btw? and where to most people end up living?

Whatever is cheapest

The neighborhood isn't exactly anything to behold. It is certainly a big drawback, if not the biggest drawback, that Temple has to offer. I sincerely think if Temple was located in Center City or University City it would be ranked much higher, but I have no evidence for that at all and it's probably wrong. But the campus is nice, and the facilities are nice (theres a ton of construction going on right now, so you can tell things are going in the right direction, even with the budget cuts). You can live near campus or in fairmount or Center City -- there are certainly options, but I figure we'll be in the library most of the day anyways so it won't matter much.

Yea, if you want some specific information about living in Philly, neighborhoods, etc I would be glad to help, send me a PM I've lived here my whole life. Temple Law is in the middle of a huge, safe campus that sits in a bad area just north of downtown. I wouldn't advise living on campus, although mostly because of the undergrads, rather than the locals. Beasley is right next to the subway, I would say that that is your best bet. Good luck.
Pete

slightly off topic, in no way to I condone or endorse USN rankings, but did anyone see the latest? Villanova took it in the a$$, they dropped a lot, from 67 to 84 way below Temple, PSU, and Rutgers. Im guessing the misreporting of LSAT scores to the ABA had something to do with that.

FYI Temple went up from 72 to 61 for whatever its worth

usmcjag wrote:slightly off topic, in no way to I condone or endorse USN rankings, but did anyone see the latest? Villanova took it in the a$$, they dropped a lot, from 67 to 84 way below Temple, PSU, and Rutgers. Im guessing the misreporting of LSAT scores to the ABA had something to do with that.

FYI Temple went up from 72 to 61 for whatever its worth

Sort of. Villanova took no "official rankings hit," but they did report their real numbers this year, which resulted in a 2-point drop in their LSAT median.

This doesn't change the fact that Villanova and Temple are peer schools, differing in NLJ 250 placement by mere tenths of a percent. This also doesn't change the fact that Temple is generally a much cheaper (and thus, better) option.

HeavenWood wrote:

usmcjag wrote:slightly off topic, in no way to I condone or endorse USN rankings, but did anyone see the latest? Villanova took it in the a$$, they dropped a lot, from 67 to 84 way below Temple, PSU, and Rutgers. Im guessing the misreporting of LSAT scores to the ABA had something to do with that.

FYI Temple went up from 72 to 61 for whatever its worth

Sort of. Villanova took no "official rankings hit," but they did report their real numbers this year, which resulted in a 2-point drop in their LSAT median.

This doesn't change the fact that Villanova and Temple are peer schools, differing in NLJ 250 placement by mere tenths of a percent. This also doesn't change the fact that Temple is generally a much cheaper (and thus, better) option.

Villanova is so expensive...

As for quality of life, Temple beats Villanova and PSU. You just live in center city/university city/fairmount and take the subway to school. You never go more than 100 yards on Temple campus because the law school is next to the subway. If you live at Villanova or PSU, you have to drive or take a longer train ride to go anywhere enjoyable on the weekends. At Temple, you live where you want to hang out on the weekends.

HeavenWood wrote:

usmcjag wrote:slightly off topic, in no way to I condone or endorse USN rankings, but did anyone see the latest? Villanova took it in the a$$, they dropped a lot, from 67 to 84 way below Temple, PSU, and Rutgers. Im guessing the misreporting of LSAT scores to the ABA had something to do with that.

FYI Temple went up from 72 to 61 for whatever its worth

Sort of. Villanova took no "official rankings hit," but they did report their real numbers this year, which resulted in a 2-point drop in their LSAT median.

This doesn't change the fact that Villanova and Temple are peer schools, differing in NLJ 250 placement by mere tenths of a percent. This also doesn't change the fact that Temple is generally a much cheaper (and thus, better) option.

Im not saying that lying = drop in ratings, but it is my opinion that if a school's admins feel like they need to juice their stats, then it is probably indicative of some larger problems at the school. Hence the ratings drop.
Also I realize that they are peer schools, which is why I prefaced my comment by saying that I do not endorse or condone the rankings, and I realize that they are at best vaguely indicative of a school's quality / job prospectability.
C'mon man, I realize this is a forum for future lawyers, but we're in agreement here, friends don't let friends waste their $ on Villanova.

usmcjag wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

usmcjag wrote:slightly off topic, in no way to I condone or endorse USN rankings, but did anyone see the latest? Villanova took it in the a$$, they dropped a lot, from 67 to 84 way below Temple, PSU, and Rutgers. Im guessing the misreporting of LSAT scores to the ABA had something to do with that.

FYI Temple went up from 72 to 61 for whatever its worth

Sort of. Villanova took no "official rankings hit," but they did report their real numbers this year, which resulted in a 2-point drop in their LSAT median.

This doesn't change the fact that Villanova and Temple are peer schools, differing in NLJ 250 placement by mere tenths of a percent. This also doesn't change the fact that Temple is generally a much cheaper (and thus, better) option.

Im not saying that lying = drop in ratings, but it is my opinion that if a school's admins feel like they need to juice their stats, then it is probably indicative of some larger problems at the school. Hence the ratings drop.
Also I realize that they are peer schools, which is why I prefaced my comment by saying that I do not endorse or condone the rankings, and I realize that they are at best vaguely indicative of a school's quality / job prospectability.
C'mon man, I realize this is a forum for future lawyers, but we're in agreement here, friends don't let friends waste their $ on Villanova.

If Villanova were somehow cheaper for the OP, Villanova would be the better choice. Since it isn't, I agree, Temple all the way. What you don't seem to understand, however, is that Villanova's "scandal," however over-hyped on TLS, will have little to no effect on the way local hiring is conducted--at least not in the short term.

phillaw wrote:As for quality of life, Temple beats Villanova and PSU. You just live in center city/university city/fairmount and take the subway to school. You never go more than 100 yards on Temple campus because the law school is next to the subway. If you live at Villanova or PSU, you have to drive or take a longer train ride to go anywhere enjoyable on the weekends. At Temple, you live where you want to hang out on the weekends.

What are these areas like? (Center City/University City/Fairmount) Can someone tell me what these areas are like? Maybe some pros/cons? I have no idea where I should live... I guess somewhere safe and clean for around $1500/month.

"If Villanova were somehow cheaper for the OP, Villanova would be the better choice. Since it isn't, I agree, Temple all the way. What you don't seem to understand, however, is that Villanova's "scandal," however over-hyped on TLS, will have little to no effect on the way local hiring is conducted--at least not in the short term."

Over hyped on TLS? I wouldn't know I read about it on the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer. Plus, I didn't even say that it was remotely connected to hiring, in fact I went out of my way to say that it wasn't several times.
So which is it Heavenwood, do you work for Villanova, or will you be going there in the fall because you couldn't get into Temple?

usmcjag wrote:"If Villanova were somehow cheaper for the OP, Villanova would be the better choice. Since it isn't, I agree, Temple all the way. What you don't seem to understand, however, is that Villanova's "scandal," however over-hyped on TLS, will have little to no effect on the way local hiring is conducted--at least not in the short term."

Over hyped on TLS? I wouldn't know I read about it on the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer. Plus, I didn't even say that it was remotely connected to hiring, in fact I went out of my way to say that it wasn't several times.
So which is it Heavenwood, do you work for Villanova, or will you be going there in the fall because you couldn't get into Temple?

I'm going to Penn, actually (although my Mom worked for Villanova many years back ). Perhaps I misconstrued your statement "friends don't let friends waste their $ on Villanova" to mean that Temple was objectively better (I definitely agree that Villanova is not worth the extra cost under any circumstance).

usmcjag wrote:"If Villanova were somehow cheaper for the OP, Villanova would be the better choice. Since it isn't, I agree, Temple all the way. What you don't seem to understand, however, is that Villanova's "scandal," however over-hyped on TLS, will have little to no effect on the way local hiring is conducted--at least not in the short term."

Over hyped on TLS? I wouldn't know I read about it on the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer. Plus, I didn't even say that it was remotely connected to hiring, in fact I went out of my way to say that it wasn't several times.
So which is it Heavenwood, do you work for Villanova, or will you be going there in the fall because you couldn't get into Temple?

This. My dad is a practicing attorney in Philadelphia and he came to me with whispers of worrying coming out of Villanova and out of his fellow attorneys. He even warned me himself, as I've also been accepted to Nova, that it might not be the best idea in the world to go to that school right now if other options are on the table. So here I am, and it seems to be Temple for me.

2things2 wrote:

usmcjag wrote:"If Villanova were somehow cheaper for the OP, Villanova would be the better choice. Since it isn't, I agree, Temple all the way. What you don't seem to understand, however, is that Villanova's "scandal," however over-hyped on TLS, will have little to no effect on the way local hiring is conducted--at least not in the short term."

Over hyped on TLS? I wouldn't know I read about it on the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer. Plus, I didn't even say that it was remotely connected to hiring, in fact I went out of my way to say that it wasn't several times.
So which is it Heavenwood, do you work for Villanova, or will you be going there in the fall because you couldn't get into Temple?

This. My dad is a practicing attorney in Philadelphia and he came to me with whispers of worrying coming out of Villanova and out of his fellow attorneys. He even warned me himself, as I've also been accepted to Nova, that it might not be the best idea in the world to go to that school right now if other options are on the table. So here I am, and it seems to be Temple for me.

My dad is also a practicing attorney in Philadelphia, and he told me the allegations won't effect a damned thing. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face: in terms of education and placement, Temple and Villanova are peers--one is no better or worse than the other. Temple is the better choice for most applicants because it ends up being the cheaper option, not because employers are going to start avoiding Villanova like the plague.

Hey, maybe your dads know each other lol

jwjbaek wrote:

phillaw wrote:As for quality of life, Temple beats Villanova and PSU. You just live in center city/university city/fairmount and take the subway to school. You never go more than 100 yards on Temple campus because the law school is next to the subway. If you live at Villanova or PSU, you have to drive or take a longer train ride to go anywhere enjoyable on the weekends. At Temple, you live where you want to hang out on the weekends.

What are these areas like? (Center City/University City/Fairmount) Can someone tell me what these areas are like? Maybe some pros/cons? I have no idea where I should live... I guess somewhere safe and clean for around $1500/month.

1500 a month in rent? Shit, you can live anywhere and somewhat pimping for that price.
center city is...in the center of the city, so close to everything, and if youre really big on the bar and restaurant scene go there...fairmount is cheaperto live, but nice tree lined neighborhoods, close to the art museums, farther from the subway, and right by kelly drive which is the nicest outdoors area in philly, a few nice restaurants and local bars (personally i prefer the charm of green street) university city much farther away from campus, but still less than a half hour subway commute, close to penn, weird neighborhoods with families, and hippies, and even the anarchists...you also forgot to mention Northern liberties, which is the hipster area that has been flourishing the past ten years. if you have 1500 to spend, I would only consider northern liberties, center city, and fairmount, but you can get a really sweet place for that much. (and if 1500 is your intended spending for the whole month, rent included, then look into studios anywhere, or fishtown and south philly)

jwjbaek wrote:Hey, maybe your dads know each other lol

this made me laugh so hard.