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I'm trying to decide between the two, but haven't yet had an opportunity to visit either. Thought I'd solicit some input here.

I would like to work as a public defender, for the ACLU, for the Innocence Project, as a drug policy reformer, and as a campaign reformer. Specifically, on that last point, I'd like to help new political parties get started.

I am sympathetic towards anarchists and socialists, and advocate for the value of psychedelics.

Which school would be right for me?

Relevant to your interests (be they anarchists, socialists, or all things psychedelics):

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/columbia ... rtunities/

JusticeHarlan wrote:Relevant to your interests (be they anarchists, socialists, or all things psychedelics):

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/columbia ... rtunities/

Wow

Thank you for sharing this with me

We now no longer feel confident in recommending Columbia to prospective students interested in pursuing public interest careers, particularly those students comparing Columbia and NYU.

--214 Columbia students

heyman wrote:

We now no longer feel confident in recommending Columbia to prospective students interested in pursuing public interest careers, particularly those students comparing Columbia and NYU.

--214 Columbia students

wow. thanks for this! I guess I will pretty much cross Columbia off my list.

What I'm curious about is how the difference in public interest opportunities manifests itself...what does NYU offer that CLS lacks?

jtemp320 wrote:What I'm curious about is how the difference in public interest opportunities manifests itself...what does NYU offer that CLS lacks?

NYU is known for being really good for pub interest, def more so than Columbia. NYU Pub Interest fair is the biggest in NE region, and students get first dibs on jobs there.

NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??

adt231 wrote:

ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??

I'm a recent CLS alum who works in public interest, and I think that the petition overstated things a little. I know a lot of the students who were leading the charge, and I fully applaud what they did because it was very effective at getting the administration to get more serious about public interest support. In this case, I think the ends definitely justified the means, and I even signed the petition myself. Still, I think that letter was written at a time when students were angry about a couple very specific issues so I think you do need to take SOME of it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think CLS offers a very comparable (and in some ways better) public interest experience than NYU. I really do think that the public interest fair is the only thing that makes NYU meaningfully different than any other T10 school...

And I got two jobs (one summer, one post-graduate) out of that fair as a non-NYUer so I don't think it's necessarily a reason to choose NYU if you feel there is something specific (professor, externship/clinic, institute or program) at another school that fits your interests or personality better.

adt231 wrote:

ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??

I think those students had a point, and I'm glad some of the issues are getting resolved. However, I did talk to several current Columbia students who are very happy with the public interest opportunities there, so there are mixed reviews. Of course, NYU for PI is usually TCR, The "vibe" at the two schools is also very different so that's why I advised OP to visit. Columbia caught my eye because of $$$ and I visited NYU because I happened to be in NYC visiting Columbia. I may not end up at either one, but I found my visits to be very helpful nonetheless.

ams wrote:

adt231 wrote:

ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??

I think those students had a point, and I'm glad some of the issues are getting resolved. However, I did talk to several current Columbia students who are very happy with the public interest opportunities there, so there are mixed reviews. Of course, NYU for PI is usually TCR, The "vibe" at the two schools is also very different so that's why I advised OP to visit. Columbia caught my eye because of $$$ and I visited NYU because I happened to be in NYC visiting Columbia. I may not end up at either one, but I found my visits to be very helpful nonetheless.

Gotcha. Thanks!

chris0805 wrote:

adt231 wrote:

ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??

I'm a recent CLS alum who works in public interest, and I think that the petition overstated things a little. I know a lot of the students who were leading the charge, and I fully applaud what they did because it was very effective at getting the administration to get more serious about public interest support. In this case, I think the ends definitely justified the means, and I even signed the petition myself. Still, I think that letter was written at a time when students were angry about a couple very specific issues so I think you do need to take SOME of it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think CLS offers a very comparable (and in some ways better) public interest experience than NYU. I really do think that the public interest fair is the only thing that makes NYU meaningfully different than any other T10 school...

And I got two jobs (one summer, one post-graduate) out of that fair as a non-NYUer so I don't think it's necessarily a reason to choose NYU if you feel there is something specific (professor, externship/clinic, institute or program) at another school that fits your interests or personality better.

what did the administration do to address the concerns? also, would you mind saying more about the ways in which the public interest experience at CLS is better than that at NYU?

bob77 wrote:

chris0805 wrote:

adt231 wrote:

ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??

I'm a recent CLS alum who works in public interest, and I think that the petition overstated things a little. I know a lot of the students who were leading the charge, and I fully applaud what they did because it was very effective at getting the administration to get more serious about public interest support. In this case, I think the ends definitely justified the means, and I even signed the petition myself. Still, I think that letter was written at a time when students were angry about a couple very specific issues so I think you do need to take SOME of it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think CLS offers a very comparable (and in some ways better) public interest experience than NYU. I really do think that the public interest fair is the only thing that makes NYU meaningfully different than any other T10 school...

And I got two jobs (one summer, one post-graduate) out of that fair as a non-NYUer so I don't think it's necessarily a reason to choose NYU if you feel there is something specific (professor, externship/clinic, institute or program) at another school that fits your interests or personality better.

what did the administration do to address the concerns? also, would you mind saying more about the ways in which the public interest experience at CLS is better than that at NYU?

1. The administration did a few things along with the students. They created a new public interest lawyering class, helped put together a database of public interest students and alumni (though I think this was mostly students), created a new way to get course credit for public interest work through internships, and took some time to look into ways to do something about the turnover they were having with people at CPIL/SJI. Personally, I think the latter issue is one that comes down a little bit to luck, but it never hurts to TRY and do better.

2. I think a few things "can" be better at CLS (compared to NYU) for public interest, depending on the person. I think CLS v. NYU for public interest should still largely be a personal decision. I liked that the community at CLS (administrators and students) felt a little more personal and tight-knit at CLS. Yes, we have less students going into PI (and less students overall), but I felt I would get a little more attention there, especially since I didn't already have an amazing PI resume. It just seemed like they would be more excited to have me at CLS than at NYU and more excited to work with me. Second, I felt like students were more likely to demand things at CLS or talk about what could be better, what was in the works, etc. At NYU, it was more of a, "we're the best," and you should recognize how lucky you are to be here so why would you complain. ALL OF THIS, is my own personal and biased experience, but I felt like, for me, CLS was a better choice for PI, regardless of all the rhetoric and internet reputation. This is dependent on the person, their background, and how they feel when they visit.

At the end of the day, I had a great experience, I'm where I want to be and the LRAP is great so I'm happy with my choice, but it's also unlikely I would be in a different position had I gone to NYU.

Hi
I am a French human rights lawyer and aim to do an LLM to take the NY Bar exam next year; I would like to pursue my career in public interest and have been admitted to both NYU and Columbia. I really don't know where to go!
Your post was very interesting as it pointed out some impressions I had during my talk with Columbia i.e. they care more about their students. However I assume you did your JD at Columbia whereas I only will be there for one year (9 months actually) so am not sure the higher tuition fee is really justified in that case...
Should you have any advice/insight that would be great!! Many thanks!

NYU's vaunted public-interest focus does come with at least one downside: especially for NYU-only fellowships, the public-interest career folks historically picked favorites. By way of example, let's say you have six students applying to a competitive fellowship. One is a conventional superstar; the other five are not. Rather than let the process work itself out, the NYU PILC office would actively lobby for their preferred candidate, without necessarily disclosing to the others that they were doing so. It was a bummer as an NYU public-interest student to find out (purely by happenstance) that the folks I thought were on my side were...not.

I stress that I don't know whether this still happens, and in NYU's defense, it makes sense to stand united behind particularly promising candidates. But it's something to keep in mind for those whose decision between the two schools depends on this distinction.