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Regardless of other options...if ambitious goals (ie clerkships, biglaw etc) - is this is a good life decision?

(Yes I am aware this thread is likely to cause nothing but bad things...)

i guess it depends what you value.

if you really want to challenge yourself and get a solid education, then i think CCN is definitely worth it.

also, the chance of landing a big firm job isn't so bad at CCN.

200K + of debt ITE just doesn't add up for me unless it was for the surest of sure things (i.e. HYS, and even here, nothing is certain). If you can get into CCN at sticker, you can likely get substantial scholarships out of some very good schools. I would be more likely to pick a solid T14 school with scholarship (since they still have very solid biglaw placement). That way, you avoid having a cloud of debt over you, and still get a real solid shot at biglaw.

Yes, even ITE Columbia at sticker is a fine investment.

dakatz wrote:200K + of debt ITE just doesn't add up for me unless it was for the surest of sure things (i.e. HYS, and even here, nothing is certain). If you can get into CCN at sticker, you can likely get substantial scholarships out of some very good schools. I would be more likely to pick a solid T14 school with scholarship (since they still have very solid biglaw placement). That way, you avoid having a cloud of debt over you, and still get a real solid shot at biglaw.

I used to agree with this, but as I have gotten some relatively sizeable offers and still seen how much debt it would be, I am conflicted. I know its a huge difference, but 60k doesn't seem nearly as big when your comparing 150k to 210k. I know its 60k (sweet ride), or even a house with interest, but when looking at monthly payments b/w the two, it doesn't seem huge. Maybe its just my rapidly increasing financial pessimism.

BarbellDreams wrote:Yes, even ITE Columbia at sticker is a fine investment.

Please be right

jtemp320 wrote:Regardless of other options...if ambitious goals (ie clerkships, biglaw etc) - is this is a good life decision?

(Yes I am aware this thread is likely to cause nothing but bad things...)

Gotta be honest that 200k in debt is scary to me. Looking at your LSN, we are in similar situations. In at one of CCN and a significant scholarship from another top ten.

I am currently leaning hard toward the significant scholarship.

BUT, my goals are a little bit different than the ones you listed.

Oh man - I forgot my LSN was visible...now I've outed myself as creating another thread trying to justify potentially picking CLS over Cornell...

but seriously the intention was to debate the value of a CCN degree at sticker in this economy...

kwais wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:Yes, even ITE Columbia at sticker is a fine investment.

Please be right

+1

tipler4213 wrote:

dakatz wrote:200K + of debt ITE just doesn't add up for me unless it was for the surest of sure things (i.e. HYS, and even here, nothing is certain). If you can get into CCN at sticker, you can likely get substantial scholarships out of some very good schools. I would be more likely to pick a solid T14 school with scholarship (since they still have very solid biglaw placement). That way, you avoid having a cloud of debt over you, and still get a real solid shot at biglaw.

I used to agree with this, but as I have gotten some relatively sizeable offers and still seen how much debt it would be, I am conflicted. I know its a huge difference, but 60k doesn't seem nearly as big when your comparing 150k to 210k. I know its 60k (sweet ride), or even a house with interest, but when looking at monthly payments b/w the two, it doesn't seem huge. Maybe its just my rapidly increasing financial pessimism.

I agree with this poster. What is the big difference between $200k or $150k in the long run? Either is a mountain of debt once you graduate, and CCN appear to have better placement statistics than MVPB.

With that being said, I'm curious to hear more comments because I'm debating the same thing as the OP.

jtemp320 wrote:Oh man - I forgot my LSN was visible...now I've outed myself as creating another thread trying to justify potentially picking CLS over Cornell...

but seriously the intention was to debate the value of a CCN degree at sticker in this economy...

Ha, sorry about that.

Anyways, if someone's only option was CCN at sticker (unlikely as that may be), I think attending is a fine financial decision.

Older Chest wrote:

tipler4213 wrote:

dakatz wrote:200K + of debt ITE just doesn't add up for me unless it was for the surest of sure things (i.e. HYS, and even here, nothing is certain). If you can get into CCN at sticker, you can likely get substantial scholarships out of some very good schools. I would be more likely to pick a solid T14 school with scholarship (since they still have very solid biglaw placement). That way, you avoid having a cloud of debt over you, and still get a real solid shot at biglaw.

I used to agree with this, but as I have gotten some relatively sizeable offers and still seen how much debt it would be, I am conflicted. I know its a huge difference, but 60k doesn't seem nearly as big when your comparing 150k to 210k. I know its 60k (sweet ride), or even a house with interest, but when looking at monthly payments b/w the two, it doesn't seem huge. Maybe its just my rapidly increasing financial pessimism.

I agree with this poster. What is the big difference between $200k or $150k in the long run? Either is a mountain of debt once you graduate, and CCN appear to have better placement statistics than MVPB.

With that being said, I'm curious to hear more comments because I'm debating the same thing as the OP.

The only real way to look at this is with the monthly payments. It is about $400 a month difference on a 30 year repayment plan and $700 dollars a month on a 10 year repayment plan. That isn't really huge (if you could afford one, you could afford the other) but might make a difference to quality of life if you do get the same job, which is possible as the cutoffs aren't very different. I think looking at LRAPs makes the most sense. Some are good for private sector jobs as well as public sector jobs which really limits the risk you face. Of course how much you value something like that matters a lot based on you current prospects and your goals. If you really want a top clerkship or a v10 firm then go for Columbia.

OP, PLEEEAAASE take Cornell over CLS. $135K?! C'mon dude. And yes, there is a BIG difference between $150K and $200K in the long run. That's about 5 years less of payments on a $120K/yr job (assuming ambitious goals). That's A LOT of extra money in your pocket..

I agree that, between paying 150K at a T10 and CCN at sticker, might as well just take CCN since you are already way in debt. But if you are offered a full ride at Cornell or another lower T14, then you are absolutely out of your mind to turn that down ITE

Malcolm8X wrote:OP, PLEEEAAASE take Cornell over CLS. $135K?! C'mon dude. And yes, there is a BIG difference between $150K and $200K in the long run. That's about 5 years less of payments on a $120K/yr job (assuming ambitious goals). That's A LOT of extra money in your pocket..

How much is a dream worth...is it worth 2k extra in loan payments a month for 10 years? Wow...when you put it that way...

dakatz wrote:I agree that, between paying 150K at a T10 and CCN at sticker, might as well just take CCN since you are already way in debt. But if you are offered a full ride at Cornell or another lower T14, then you are absolutely out of your mind to turn that down ITE

PS even the full ride isn't a full ride its still almost 30k a year in loans - so still 90k in debt

jtemp320 wrote:

dakatz wrote:I agree that, between paying 150K at a T10 and CCN at sticker, might as well just take CCN since you are already way in debt. But if you are offered a full ride at Cornell or another lower T14, then you are absolutely out of your mind to turn that down ITE

PS even the full ride isn't a full ride its still almost 30k a year in loans - so still 90k in debt

Living expenses at Cornell almost certainly will not add up to that much if you live at least halfway frugally. You have an opportunity here to set yourself up for life, and avoid debt that will end up crippling more people on this forum than any of us want to think about. You essentially have a life jacket to save yourself while so many others will drown. It would be such a shame to toss that away. But hey, its ultimately your choice.

P.S. I would be happy to pose this as a hypothetical to all the lawyers I know. I can almost guarantee you that the overwhelming consensus would be to take the full ride, but I'd be happy to confirm that

Older Chest wrote:

tipler4213 wrote:

dakatz wrote:200K + of debt ITE just doesn't add up for me unless it was for the surest of sure things (i.e. HYS, and even here, nothing is certain). If you can get into CCN at sticker, you can likely get substantial scholarships out of some very good schools. I would be more likely to pick a solid T14 school with scholarship (since they still have very solid biglaw placement). That way, you avoid having a cloud of debt over you, and still get a real solid shot at biglaw.

I used to agree with this, but as I have gotten some relatively sizeable offers and still seen how much debt it would be, I am conflicted. I know its a huge difference, but 60k doesn't seem nearly as big when your comparing 150k to 210k. I know its 60k (sweet ride), or even a house with interest, but when looking at monthly payments b/w the two, it doesn't seem huge. Maybe its just my rapidly increasing financial pessimism.

I agree with this poster. What is the big difference between $200k or $150k in the long run? Either is a mountain of debt once you graduate, and CCN appear to have better placement statistics than MVPB.

With that being said, I'm curious to hear more comments because I'm debating the same thing as the OP.

The difference is the payments. If you land big law they are easier and may allow you to leave sooner. Also that initial 50 or 60k difference is a good bit more than that over the life of the loan. I am looking at 135k in debt from MVP (plus interest and minus hopeful SA pay) and I think that is a big difference vs. 200k+ at CCN sticker. That being said, I think it can go either way and is matter of personal preference and confidence in your ability to get yourself a job (a.k.a. not just be OCI or bust.)

dakatz wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:

dakatz wrote:I agree that, between paying 150K at a T10 and CCN at sticker, might as well just take CCN since you are already way in debt. But if you are offered a full ride at Cornell or another lower T14, then you are absolutely out of your mind to turn that down ITE

PS even the full ride isn't a full ride its still almost 30k a year in loans - so still 90k in debt

Living expenses at Cornell almost certainly will not add up to that much if you live at least halfway frugally. You have an opportunity here to set yourself up for life, and avoid debt that will end up crippling more people on this forum than any of us want to think about. You essentially have a life jacket to save yourself while so many others will drown. It would be such a shame to toss that away. But hey, its ultimately your choice.

You make a strong argument and I am definitely listening...hard to give up a dream though...thats what they sent me on my finaid estimate even with 45k a year in aid...tuition is an outrageous 52k a year at Cornell....

jtemp320 wrote:

dakatz wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:

dakatz wrote:I agree that, between paying 150K at a T10 and CCN at sticker, might as well just take CCN since you are already way in debt. But if you are offered a full ride at Cornell or another lower T14, then you are absolutely out of your mind to turn that down ITE

PS even the full ride isn't a full ride its still almost 30k a year in loans - so still 90k in debt

Living expenses at Cornell almost certainly will not add up to that much if you live at least halfway frugally. You have an opportunity here to set yourself up for life, and avoid debt that will end up crippling more people on this forum than any of us want to think about. You essentially have a life jacket to save yourself while so many others will drown. It would be such a shame to toss that away. But hey, its ultimately your choice.

You make a strong argument and I am definitely listening...hard to give up a dream though...thats what they sent me on my finaid estimate even with 45k a year in aid...tuition is an outrageous 52k a year at Cornell....

What exactly is your dream? A prestigious clerkship? Working in academia? Or working for a prestigious law firm?

jtemp320 wrote:

Malcolm8X wrote:OP, PLEEEAAASE take Cornell over CLS. $135K?! C'mon dude. And yes, there is a BIG difference between $150K and $200K in the long run. That's about 5 years less of payments on a $120K/yr job (assuming ambitious goals). That's A LOT of extra money in your pocket..

How much is a dream worth...is it worth 2k extra in loan payments a month for 10 years? Wow...when you put it that way...

I didn't necessarily do the math. I can using excel but right now I feel lazy. But from the above assessment, that's about an extra $400K/mo = ~$5K/yr over 10 years which is another $50K. It's most likely more because we're not considering the runaway interest that adds up as soon as you take out the loan. It doesn't sound like much but that's ASSUMING a TON of things. Like you'll be honky dory working at a luxurious big law job (while dangling on the whims of some partner's puppet strings) for 10 friggin' years.. Just having a consistent job paying over $75K/yr for 10 years is a big assumption nowadays. You have a GREAT second option with a ton of debt off your shoulders..

dakatz wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:

dakatz wrote:I agree that, between paying 150K at a T10 and CCN at sticker, might as well just take CCN since you are already way in debt. But if you are offered a full ride at Cornell or another lower T14, then you are absolutely out of your mind to turn that down ITE

You make a strong argument and I am definitely listening...hard to give up a dream though...thats what they sent me on my finaid estimate even with 45k a year in aid...tuition is an outrageous 52k a year at Cornell....

What exactly is your dream? A prestigious clerkship? Working in academia? Or working for a prestigious law firm?[/quote]

#1 and 2 more then 3...Biglaw is not my dream - if it was I know Cornell isn't that much worse an option then Columbia

jtemp320 wrote:

dakatz wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:

dakatz wrote:I agree that, between paying 150K at a T10 and CCN at sticker, might as well just take CCN since you are already way in debt. But if you are offered a full ride at Cornell or another lower T14, then you are absolutely out of your mind to turn that down ITE

PS even the full ride isn't a full ride its still almost 30k a year in loans - so still 90k in debt

Living expenses at Cornell almost certainly will not add up to that much if you live at least halfway frugally. You have an opportunity here to set yourself up for life, and avoid debt that will end up crippling more people on this forum than any of us want to think about. You essentially have a life jacket to save yourself while so many others will drown. It would be such a shame to toss that away. But hey, its ultimately your choice.

You make a strong argument and I am definitely listening...hard to give up a dream though...thats what they sent me on my finaid estimate even with 45k a year in aid...tuition is an outrageous 52k a year at Cornell....

Yea, but a $9K/yr shortfall (after averaging tuition raises) plus $12K/yr in living is like a paltry $60K-$70K! I just don't understand the thinking nowadays.. This is simply "irrational exuberance". But hey, it's your choice, man.

Cornell>CCN for biglaw this year brother.

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