T3/4 Forum

farszandian · Post by **farszandian** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:55 am

Hey all,

I'm deciding between California Western and Thomas Jefferson. I know what you're thinking-- "retake!" I took the LSAT twice, studied longer and hard the second time around and got an even lower score. The LSAT has my number. So I'm deciding between these two schools. I want to go into legal aid after graduation. Tuition at both schools is around 40K. (I know). TJ has offered a partial (i.e., 35%) scholly, Cal West no $. What do you all think? I'd appreciate any advice!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:58 am

I hate to say this, but retake a third time, or don't go.

Danteshek · Post by **Danteshek** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:58 am

California Western. I know students at both, and the students at CWSL are generally much happier.

MrPapagiorgio · Post by **MrPapagiorgio** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:02 am

While some T3/T4's are worth it, these two are certainly not (and the money they are giving you is not even close enough to making them worthwhile). The California economy is dead, and the legal market was especially hit hard. Please retake, and at least shoot for U of San Diego.

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:11 am

OP, please please don't go to any of these schools -- retake and apply again.

mattpen · Post by **mattpen** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:13 am

I always hear terrible things about Cal Western and generally good things about Thomas Jefferson. Hope that helps

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:16 am

mattpen wrote:I always hear terrible things about Cal Western and generally good things about Thomas Jefferson. Hope that helps

like what?

mattpen · Post by **mattpen** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:18 am

Just student life type stuff, happier students, friendlier faculty, the quality of life type things. It seems as though their reputations in the So-Cal area are about the same.

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:21 am

mattpen wrote:Just student life type stuff, happier students, friendlier faculty, the quality of life type things. It seems as though their reputations in the So-Cal area are about the same.

While I do think being happy for 3 years and having friendly professors/students are nice, the primary concern should be about potential vocational success -- Socal is an already saturated market and I know that t3/t4 graduates have a dismal chance at a decent legal job especially ITE...

mattpen · Post by **mattpen** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:23 am

I guess we just have different viewpoints then, if I'm going to spend over 100k on a school, where I spend 12 hours a day. I would prefer to be at a place that I like going to. Honestly don't pay much attention to what you read on a forum like this, visit the schools, you'll know from that where you want to go.

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:27 am

mattpen wrote:I guess we just have different viewpoints then, if I'm going to spend over 100k on a school, where I spend 12 hours a day. I would prefer to be at a place that I like going to. Honestly don't pay much attention to what you read on a forum like this, visit the schools, you'll know from that where you want to go.

If I'm going to pay over 100K on a school I prefer to be at a school that will help me get out of debt.

mattpen · Post by **mattpen** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:31 am

Dpk I just noticed you weren't the one that started the thread / asked the question. farszandian if you have any questions or want advice, feel free to pm me.

-Matt

Sean1269 · Post by **Sean1269** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:31 am

I'm from this area, in SD both schools are relatively well respected because of their alumni base (from when the economy was actually good). I don't know much about legal aid, so I can't speculate on your chances there. If you want to do biglaw, which in my personal opinion is not the greatest way to spend your time (if you want to have a life..), then you'll be okay as long as legal aid isn't super competitive and you do okay at school.

If it were me, I would go to Cal Western with the scholly. ITE your biggest priority should be to minimize debt, especially if you want to work in legal aid.

MrPapagiorgio · Post by **MrPapagiorgio** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:33 am

Sean1269 wrote:(from when the economy was actually good)

Post should have ended after that.

farszandian · Post by **farszandian** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:36 am

Thanks all for the info. mattpen, i appreciate your offer to help. i'll take you up on that!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:43 am

farszandian wrote:Thanks all for the info. mattpen, i appreciate your offer to help. i'll take you up on that!

lol he goes to TJ. $5 says he knows that if he posts openly, he's gonna have to deal with fallout. Keep in mind the negatives of TJ have been documented over and over again both here and in mainstream media.

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:47 am

Sean1269 wrote:I'm from this area, ~~in SD both schools are relatively well respected because of their alumni base~~ ~~(from when the economy was actually good)~~. I don't know much about legal aid, so I can't speculate on your chances there. If you want to do biglaw, which in my personal opinion is not the greatest way to spend your time (if you want to have a life..), ~~then you'll be okay as long as legal aid isn't super competitive and you do okay at school.~~

If it were me, I would go to Cal Western with the scholly. ITE your biggest priority should be to minimize debt, especially if you want to work in legal aid.

FTFY

Hank Chill · Post by **Hank Chill** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:03 am

Op- pull a 'hemingway' and put both barrels in your mouth at the same time. That's smarter than paying money to go to one of these schools.

General Tso · Post by **General Tso** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:17 am

Cal Western is a better school than TJ. However, neither school is worth more than 30-40k debt in my opinion. The San Diego legal market is small and you will definitely be employed at a small firm (if you are employed in the legal field at all, that is). Thus, it only makes sense to attend if your debt level is sustainable on a small firm salary (ie., 40-50k).

If it were me, I'd retake and try to get into a better school or not attend law school at all. If you want to study (and eventually practice) in San Diego, a low 160s LSAT will get you in to USD with a good scholarship.

cj2k14 · Post by **cj2k14** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:09 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/busin ... wanted=all

He went to Thomas Jefferson..

bearsfan1 · Post by **bearsfan1** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:34 pm

cj2k14 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/busin ... wanted=all

He went to Thomas Jefferson..

Haha, damnit - beat me to it, I read this article the other day and remembered that he went to TJ.

Case2L · Post by **Case2L** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:57 pm

Obviously you have ties to Southern California, but are those ties binding? That is, would you be able to relocate and attend a law school in the same tier, but has a better regional rep, such as Vermont, WVU, Mississippi, etc.?

kidman018 · Post by **kidman018** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:58 pm

I just visited Cal Western Yesterday. It seems like a very nice school and the staff really cares about you. The only thing was it seemed like they admitted just about anyone. This is probably why it's ranked so low. I actually liked it and am considering it myself because they have a fantastic international law program with an internship to the Hague, not many other colleges offer than, and even though it's a T4 i'm considering it over a T2 school just for that purpose. I didn't really look too much into TJ so I can't give you much input on them. But also, Cal Western might be teaming up with UCSD, and if this goes through then their ranking will skyrocket... just something to keep in mind but when talking to them yesterday it is still in the negociating phase and nothing certain.

FuManChusco · Post by **FuManChusco** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:04 pm

rad law wrote:I hate to say this, but retake a third time, or don't go.

you love to say it and I love to quote it.

Wholigan · Post by **Wholigan** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:11 pm

kidman018 wrote:I just visited Cal Western Yesterday. It seems like a very nice school and the staff really cares about you. The only thing was it seemed like they admitted just about anyone. This is probably why it's ranked so low. I actually liked it and am considering it myself because they have a fantastic international law program with an internship to the Hague, not many other colleges offer than, and even though it's a T4 i'm considering it over a T2 school just for that purpose. I didn't really look too much into TJ so I can't give you much input on them. But also, Cal Western might be teaming up with UCSD, and if this goes through then their ranking will skyrocket... just something to keep in mind but when talking to them yesterday it is still in the negociating phase and nothing certain.

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