Top Law Schools

Please give your 2 cents. I do want to eventually end up in CA if not work there after graduation (born in raised in S. Cali). The dilemma I have is that Cornell places better nationally and has more classes that are centered to what I want to specifically study. Cornell could be a nice change of scenery since I've lived in the West my whole life. However, off the bat, USC is about $18k cheaper overall because of difference in tuition. It also has really strong alumni roots in southern California and southern cali in general is pretty cool.

I'm getting my financial aid package for both schools at the end of the month. So, let's just assume I get $0 from each school for practical purposes.

Strong connections in local market v. national rep and higher prestige

Thanks for your input

You have ties to Socal. Go to Cornell.

What do you mean by ties?

Horchata wrote:What do you mean by ties?

Born and raised in SoCal. Firms won't question your commitment on coming back permanently if you explain your history.

bhan87 wrote:

Horchata wrote:What do you mean by ties?

Born and raised in SoCal. Firms won't question your commitment on coming back permanently if you explain your history.

Didn't know firms asked such questions. Thanks for the good info.

Horchata wrote:Please give your 2 cents. I do want to eventually end up in CA if not work there after graduation (born in raised in S. Cali). The dilemma I have is that Cornell places better nationally and has more classes that are centered to what I want to specifically study. Cornell could be a nice change of scenery since I've lived in the West my whole life. However, off the bat, USC is about $18k cheaper overall because of difference in tuition. It also has really strong alumni roots in southern California and southern cali in general is pretty cool.

I'm getting my financial aid package for both schools at the end of the month. So, let's just assume I get $0 from each school for practical purposes.

Strong connections in local market v. national rep and higher prestige

Thanks for your input

I would pick USC, but only because I am 100% certain I want to work in socal. As someone who has moved from the west before, let me say this: santa barbara is a bad place to be from.

USC.

USC has 120 California NLJ firms at this years OCI. Cornell has 28. The reputation difference is likely marginal within California. Of course you would be able to get a California job from Cornell, but you'd have to do more leg work. For example, you could get a job in Cali your 1L year, mail resumes and cover letters to a lot of firms and inform them you'd be available for a screening interview. Also, at Cornell you wouldn't be competing with your classmates as much as you would be at USC for those Cali jobs.

Rawlsian wrote:USC.

USC has 120 California NLJ firms at this years OCI. Cornell has 28. The reputation difference is marginal within California. Not that you wouldn't be able to get a California job from Cornell, but you'll have to do a lot more leg work. You could mitigate this by getting a job in Cali your 1L year, mail resumes and cover letters to a lot of firms and inform them you'd be available for a screening interview.

I think this is absolutely correct. If you already know you want to end up in So Cal long term, just realize that by going to Cornell there is going to be a chance (however large or small) that you won't be able to make it back (just based on where you are able to land jobs, etc.). You wouldn't really have that issue with SC since you would already be in its main market.

Plus, as someone who moved to the east coast for a year, moving away from Southern California is just silly, especially to a place like Ithaca.

If you are paying sticker for both, Cornell is the much better option. It gives you way more options, and firms in SoCal will love to see a T-14 grad with ties to region bringing school diversity to their firms.

On the other hand, if you get money from USC, it may well be worth it. Come back when you have your financial aid packages.

USC is the safer choice because you know & enjoy SoCal; Ithaca can be a touch depressing for those who like warmth & sunshine year round. Why risk being unhappy during your most important year of law school ?

Go to Cornell for sure. If only purely to GTFO of SoCal for a bit (like you said you wanted to, PLEASE do) and have way more options when you graduate, just in case you decide to change your mind about where you want to eventually live. If we're talking about the ~20 OCI firms at Cornell versus 120 at USC, they are likely all top firms at the former (and I would guess at USC it would be more of a mix) and if you bid heavily on them with your strong ties, there is a good chance you'll walk out with better job offers than you would have at USC.

also, i demand a poll!

Thanks for everyone's replies. Even though this is actually making my decision a little more difficult, I'm better off because the decision I ultimately make will be more informed.

Good idea for the poll, paulinaporizkova!

Rawlsian wrote:USC.

USC has 120 California NLJ firms at this years OCI. Cornell has 28. The reputation difference is likely marginal within California. Of course you would be able to get a California job from Cornell, but you'd have to do more leg work. For example, you could get a job in Cali your 1L year, mail resumes and cover letters to a lot of firms and inform them you'd be available for a screening interview. Also, at Cornell you wouldn't be competing with your classmates as much as you would be at USC for those Cali jobs.

Do not underestimate this. You will not be competing with everybody in your class for these 28 California firms. As I recall, Cornell has a special California OCI. With equal money, there is a much greater chance you will be getting shut out of a high paying job at Cornell.

KMaine wrote:

Rawlsian wrote:USC.

USC has 120 California NLJ firms at this years OCI. Cornell has 28. The reputation difference is likely marginal within California. Of course you would be able to get a California job from Cornell, but you'd have to do more leg work. For example, you could get a job in Cali your 1L year, mail resumes and cover letters to a lot of firms and inform them you'd be available for a screening interview. Also, at Cornell you wouldn't be competing with your classmates as much as you would be at USC for those Cali jobs.

Do not underestimate this. You will not be competing with everybody in your class for these 28 California firms. As I recall, Cornell has a special California OCI. With equal money, there is a much greater chance you will be getting shut out of a high paying job at Cornell.

wait, so what is your point here? the bolded makes it sound like cornell would be better because you'd have less competition, but you say OP would have higher possibility of getting shut out at cornell as you say

KMaine wrote:

Rawlsian wrote:USC.

USC has 120 California NLJ firms at this years OCI. Cornell has 28. The reputation difference is likely marginal within California. Of course you would be able to get a California job from Cornell, but you'd have to do more leg work. For example, you could get a job in Cali your 1L year, mail resumes and cover letters to a lot of firms and inform them you'd be available for a screening interview. Also, at Cornell you wouldn't be competing with your classmates as much as you would be at USC for those Cali jobs.

Do not underestimate this. You will not be competing with everybody in your class for these 28 California firms. As I recall, Cornell has a special California OCI. With equal money, there is a much greater chance you will be getting shut out of a high paying job at Cornell.

Hold up, Rawlsian is saying competition would be easier...KMaine, did you mean to say that there is much greater chance that I won't be getting shut out of high paying job out of Cornell? Because you also said, I won't be competing for everyone in my class for these 28 Cali firms..

Edit: haha I was thinking the same thing as paul...

Yeah I said Cornell. It's T-14 vs. not, its a tiny graduating class so there are fewer to go around and even less that want to go to CA. As many have said, you have ties to CA so its not like you will get questions about why you want to go there to work, and there will be drastically less competition for CA jobs from Cornell than there will be at USC. Also, if you decide you love the East Coast and never want to go back to SoCal (highly unlikely) Cornell will position you far better for East Coast jobs.

The only hesitation you should have about Cornell is Ithaca and the weather. Ithaca is on a whole different level of cold from NYC/Philly/Boston and the isolation is pretty severe (especially if you have grown up near a major metropolitan area). The transition from West Coast to East Coast is always difficult, but Ithaca makes it even worse. Some might argue that this isn't important and that its only 3 years and whatever other nonsense, but for some people its a HUGE problem. I grew up in AZ and went to school on the East Coast and I know my academic performance suffered my first winter because its just so depressing and bleak. People don't realize the psychological effect their environment has on them and if you have never experienced real winter you are in for a rude awakening. That said, after college I moved to LA and vowed never to return to the East Coast and I will probably be going to school in NYC next year.

USC. Stay in Southern Cal, meet attorneys, go to mixers in LA to meet more attorneys, get a job, profit $$$$$.

BeenDidThat wrote:USC. Stay in Southern Cal, meet attorneys, go to mixers in LA to meet more attorneys, get a job, profit $$$$$.

All of the above. On the beach. I also should mention, I'm facing the same choice and taking USC.

I vote Cornell. Even if you do end up in a hurry to get back to SoCal, Cornell will probably match USC's placement power there (remember, regional NLJ hirings are largely a case of self-selection), and if you're not in a hurry to get back, Cornell will have much better overall prospects (definitely worth 20k IMO). Once you've been practicing law for a few years, where you went to school doesn't make a big difference with ties.

Thanks for the all the replies.

bhan87 wrote:

Horchata wrote:What do you mean by ties?

Born and raised in SoCal. Firms won't question your commitment on coming back permanently if you explain your history.

Commitment?! We're talking about LA, the second largest city in the United States, not Bumfuck, Midwest. "Ties" with regards to major cities refer to networking opportunities. I suppose if you're gunning for a job in Missoula or Des Moines, firms will be comforted by the fact that you're a good ol' local, small town boy. But a major city/market? You've got to be kidding me.

UCLAtransfer wrote:

Rawlsian wrote:USC.

USC has 120 California NLJ firms at this years OCI. Cornell has 28. The reputation difference is marginal within California. Not that you wouldn't be able to get a California job from Cornell, but you'll have to do a lot more leg work. You could mitigate this by getting a job in Cali your 1L year, mail resumes and cover letters to a lot of firms and inform them you'd be available for a screening interview.

I think this is absolutely correct. If you already know you want to end up in So Cal long term, just realize that by going to Cornell there is going to be a chance (however large or small) that you won't be able to make it back (just based on where you are able to land jobs, etc.). You wouldn't really have that issue with SC since you would already be in its main market.

Plus, as someone who moved to the east coast for a year, moving away from Southern California is just silly, especially to a place like Ithaca.

No.

Real ties - childhood/high school/etc. - are much more substantial than those created by law school.

Take the employment %'s over the number of employers. Think of it this way - you can reach to Southern CA with a Cornell degree, bu you cannot reach to the East Coast with a USC degree.

BeenDidThat wrote:USC. Stay in Southern Cal, meet attorneys, go to mixers in LA to meet more attorneys, get a job, profit $$$$$.

0L foolishness.

Unless you are related to hiring partners or marrying one's child, "mixing" with attorneys won't get you a job.

I'd go to Cornell, because having a job outside of California > unemployed in CA. I think outside of IP, the CA legal market is going to decline even more in the coming years.

.

Having spent 4 years in Ithica I will tell you- stay in California. Warm weather, cheaper tuition (maybe?), but less prestige. A lot of people here are advising you to go to Cornell, I would take that with a grain of salt. Look at major Law Firms in the Southern California area, see how many of those people when to Cornell and how many went to USC. I would wager, due to self-selection or whatever else, that very few firms will have lawyers from Cornell. However, there will be plenty of USC alumni. And alumni love to help their own. Conversely, you will find plenty of Cornell grads in NYC, which is probably your best chance for finding employment, given that California is experiencing an economic meltdown. Anyway, good luck. Either way, you are in a great spot.