Nice. I am curious to see the "new calculation of employment rates". Everything else just looks like fluff with no actual demand/consequence - about as useless as anything the UN does.
2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official) Forum
- rman1201
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:11 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
- 99.9luft
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:32 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
This 'change' makes me think that these ranking will shake more up than we expected (and more than they did in the previous years). Finally, an incentive to care.rman1201 wrote:Nice. I am curious to see the "new calculation of employment rates". Everything else just looks like fluff with no actual demand/consequence - about as useless as anything the UN does.
- Marionberry
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:24 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
I propose new ranking system, in which the Deans of all T100 law schools with compete in a tournament of fights to the death.rman1201 wrote:Nice. I am curious to see the "new calculation of employment rates". Everything else just looks like fluff with no actual demand/consequence - about as useless as anything the UN does.
- girlonfire
- Posts: 463
- Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:45 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
you've got my voteMarionberry wrote: I propose new ranking system, in which the Deans of all T100 law schools with compete in a tournament of fights to the death.
- Justathought
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:16 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Yale still comes out on top.girlonfire wrote:you've got my voteMarionberry wrote: I propose new ranking system, in which the Deans of all T100 law schools with compete in a tournament of fights to the death.
http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/ARangappa.htm
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Marionberry
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:24 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
She's supposed to be pretty fierce, but for the purposes of the ranking system we have to have the school's main dean's fight, not the admissions deans. If we allow that, schools will bring in ringers.Justathought wrote:Yale still comes out on top.girlonfire wrote:you've got my voteMarionberry wrote: I propose new ranking system, in which the Deans of all T100 law schools with compete in a tournament of fights to the death.
http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/ARangappa.htm
- rman1201
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:11 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Yale would still come out on top, their dean is a certified bad ass.Marionberry wrote:She's supposed to be pretty fierce, but for the purposes of the ranking system we have to have the school's main dean's fight, not the admissions deans. If we allow that, schools will bring in ringers.Justathought wrote:Yale still comes out on top.girlonfire wrote:you've got my voteMarionberry wrote: I propose new ranking system, in which the Deans of all T100 law schools with compete in a tournament of fights to the death.
http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/ARangappa.htm
- Marionberry
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:24 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
I googled different law school deans, trying to find one that looked really badass and tough. I was unsuccessful.rman1201 wrote:Yale would still come out on top, their dean is a certified bad ass.
- Justathought
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:16 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
This is great news.
Edit: Though I bet the employment data is still not given the weight it deserves.
Last edited by Justathought on Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- northwood
- Posts: 5036
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
do you think they implemented it in this year's rankings??
- Justathought
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:16 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Says they did.northwood wrote:do you think they implemented it in this year's rankings??
-
- Posts: 11413
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Wow ! Thank you for posting this link.
P.S. Anybody willing to post a "street slang" translation of the USNews letter to law school deans ?
P.S. Anybody willing to post a "street slang" translation of the USNews letter to law school deans ?
-
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:08 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
How do you weight clerkships, prestigious PI, etc. in comparison with BigLaw placement?Justathought wrote:This is great news.
Edit: Though I bet the employment data is still not given the weight it deserves.
I'm glad I'm not in charge of USNWR methodology.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:40 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
The only thing I see resulting from this letter is a greater incentive for law schools to tweak the salaries of graduates. It is already a well documented problem just how farfetched the median salaries are and placing more weight on salaries for the rankings will only agitate this problem. If USNWR wishes to use salary as another barometer, the ABA or NALP needs to step in and mandate the auditing of salary information just like MBA programs do (why this is not the case currently baffles me). In addition, many law schools do not count those not in the legal field in their salary information yet include them for their employment percentage. They should include either all reported salaries or only those gainfully employed but they should not be afforded the luxury to pick and chose, especially with the emphasis law schools place on full disclosure. Coming from an accounting/finance background, this form of book keeping is worthy of a public uprising. And research will show more than a handful of schools that claim 25% or more of graduates could be contacted for information. This tells me either they were too embarrassed/outraged at their current employment status or they made so little money that the school "lost" their salary report and chalked up another no contact.
Even if a school decided to report wholly and truthfully they couldn't out of sheer terror of what that would do to their rankings and application numbers. Nothing will be done to improve this glaring flaw until strict mandates are constructed governing the exact process of salary documentation.
Whew stepping off soap box now...
- rman1201
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:11 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Tl;drcjw2222 wrote:The only thing I see resulting from this letter is a greater incentive for law schools to tweak the salaries of graduates. It is already a well documented problem just how farfetched the median salaries are and placing more weight on salaries for the rankings will only agitate this problem. If USNWR wishes to use salary as another barometer, the ABA or NALP needs to step in and mandate the auditing of salary information just like MBA programs do (why this is not the case currently baffles me). In addition, many law schools do not count those not in the legal field in their salary information yet include them for their employment percentage. They should include either all reported salaries or only those gainfully employed but they should not be afforded the luxury to pick and chose, especially with the emphasis law schools place on full disclosure. Coming from an accounting/finance background, this form of book keeping is worthy of a public uprising. And research will show more than a handful of schools that claim 25% or more of graduates could be contacted for information. This tells me either they were too embarrassed/outraged at their current employment status or they made so little money that the school "lost" their salary report and chalked up another no contact.
Even if a school decided to report wholly and truthfully they couldn't out of sheer terror of what that would do to their rankings and application numbers. Nothing will be done to improve this glaring flaw until strict mandates are constructed governing the exact process of salary documentation.
Whew stepping off soap box now...
-
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:21 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
+1rman1201 wrote:Tl;drcjw2222 wrote:The only thing I see resulting from this letter is a greater incentive for law schools to tweak the salaries of graduates. It is already a well documented problem just how farfetched the median salaries are and placing more weight on salaries for the rankings will only agitate this problem. If USNWR wishes to use salary as another barometer, the ABA or NALP needs to step in and mandate the auditing of salary information just like MBA programs do (why this is not the case currently baffles me). In addition, many law schools do not count those not in the legal field in their salary information yet include them for their employment percentage. They should include either all reported salaries or only those gainfully employed but they should not be afforded the luxury to pick and chose, especially with the emphasis law schools place on full disclosure. Coming from an accounting/finance background, this form of book keeping is worthy of a public uprising. And research will show more than a handful of schools that claim 25% or more of graduates could be contacted for information. This tells me either they were too embarrassed/outraged at their current employment status or they made so little money that the school "lost" their salary report and chalked up another no contact.
Even if a school decided to report wholly and truthfully they couldn't out of sheer terror of what that would do to their rankings and application numbers. Nothing will be done to improve this glaring flaw until strict mandates are constructed governing the exact process of salary documentation.
Whew stepping off soap box now...
-
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:07 am
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Dean of ___________________ (insert SEC school here)
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- rman1201
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:11 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
So is this going to be the official thread for when the rankings come out or should we make a new one? OP doesn't seem very active...
- 99.9luft
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:32 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
depends how shocking the ranking will be. a new thread might be warranted if its future title implies sudden and unexpected PWNAGE by an underdog or a shocking toppling of a ranking leader.rman1201 wrote:So is this going to be the official thread for when the rankings come out or should we make a new one? OP doesn't seem very active...
- rman1201
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:11 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
I'm a Premium Us News subscriber, so I call first dibs on the thread. I want my TLS identity to be forever associated with the rankings that changed everything.99.9luft wrote:depends how shocking the ranking will be. a new thread might be warranted if its future title implies sudden and unexpected PWNAGE by an underdog or a shocking toppling of a ranking leader.rman1201 wrote:So is this going to be the official thread for when the rankings come out or should we make a new one? OP doesn't seem very active...
- DeSimone
- Posts: 374
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:49 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
no worries, the moderators will hack it if need berman1201 wrote:So is this going to be the official thread for when the rankings come out or should we make a new one? OP doesn't seem very active...
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- nshapkar
- Posts: 2443
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:56 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Justathought wrote:Says they did.northwood wrote:do you think they implemented it in this year's rankings??
It said that the letter was sent a week ago which would be 3/2. I don't see how the schools would compile the needed information quick enough, then the USNWR writers factor it into the rankings, and finally publish it all by 3/15.
Also, what exactly do business schools do to make their salary figures so accurate?
- nshapkar
- Posts: 2443
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:56 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
stratocophic wrote:They're being released online first. USNWR got smart and there will be no print articles for NYers to snag a few days early as there were in the past.beachbum wrote:One would think.mavsman88 wrote:Shouldn't they be leaked by now?
why/how did NY get the articles first? I mean, they are a couple hours ahead of the west coast but days??
-
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:18 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
I have a question regarding salaries being reported/employment levels:
1) Does the percentage of graduates who report salaries factor into the rankings? That seems far more useful to me than the overall median reported.
2) Does CoL get weighted at all? Obviously you have a better chance at BigLaw going to GW or a school along those lines than Alabama etc, but 75k gets you significantly farther in Alabama or Tennessee than it does in DC and NYC. I'm just curious if that's factored in the rankings?
1) Does the percentage of graduates who report salaries factor into the rankings? That seems far more useful to me than the overall median reported.
2) Does CoL get weighted at all? Obviously you have a better chance at BigLaw going to GW or a school along those lines than Alabama etc, but 75k gets you significantly farther in Alabama or Tennessee than it does in DC and NYC. I'm just curious if that's factored in the rankings?
-
- Posts: 3727
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm
Re: 2012 U.S. News Rankings (March 15th... It's official)
Go to most top business schools and you can get a list of where each graduating student is employed and then salary statistics are aggregated into industries for publication. Most of the data are published with a full range of salaries for industries (sufficiently high level to avoid individual idenitification) and then an average or median is reported.nshapkar wrote:Also, what exactly do business schools do to make their salary figures so accurate?
I believe the data are self reported, however they are usually audited to avoid the school itself manipulating the result (rather than whatever incentive an individual might have to misrepresent their employment or income information).
For example Kellogg's report is here:
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/Pro ... Final.ashx
Interestingly it contains the name and employer of JD/MBAs as well.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login