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Who am I

I am a Vanderbilt 3L. This is an alt I made for posting this data. I don't want to be "that guy" for posting this. Admitted students all got this packet, so this isn't really a leak, but it is in a better format.

So how bad was the recession for Vanderbilt?

So I got the packet of where class of 2010 (OCI 2008) got jobs from Vandy. Did some math. 191 reporting where they got jerbs. 97% of the class reporting. So like 197ish grads.

Recall that as per http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528, Vandy had about 55% NLJ250 plus Article III. (OCI 2007, before the crash)

For 2010 grads, that number was 39% (10% Article III, 29% NLJ250) (This assumes that the firms listed were not contract atty. positions. This is a decent assumption)

Most popular destinations? TN (35, all in Nashville), DC (23), NY (22), CA (10), IL (10)

Other jobs of note?
- PI and govt.: FDA, 1st Amendment Center, House Judiciary Committee, NPR Office of General Counsel, Natl. Endowment for the Arts, DOE, Dept. of Health & Human Serv., Homeland Sec. (2), State Dept, Environmental Law and Policy Center, Brooklyn DA, Amnesty Intl., ACLU, Green Strategies, World Wildlife Fund, IRS
- Various regional midlaw and smaller firms (lots of people want to stay down South, where there are not a lot of true biglaw firms)
- Goldman ($5 says it’s private wealth management)

So what is the takeaway?

Consensus here is that it’s gotten better, with 2009 OCI better than 2008, and 2010 better than 2009. By how much, we don’t know, but noticeably so. This data doesn’t seem out of the ordinary, especially compared to the Cornell data that got leaked on ATL. Most importantly, you probably won’t be unemployed from Vandy, but I would probably not pay sticker.

edit:

Good caveats

tkgarrett wrote:Umm this is really deceptive.. A good lot of the non-NLJ 250 jobs are at regional firms that start salaries near or above six figures

tkgarrett wrote:the jobs thread does a major disservice to schools like Vandy that place a lot of people in high-pay non-NLJ 250 firms. This format is not really representative of overall job prospects from Vandy.

Thanks for the honesty, appreciated.

Wow. 29% NLJ 250 is crazy stuff from Vandy. The 2010 numbers are sure going to be depressing when they come out. I would rather not see them. I hope you're right about the improvement in 2009 and 2010...hopefully 2011 OCI.

Thanks for sharing.

Eh, it could be worse. 30% into big firms during the height of the recession isn't THAT bad, and hopefully the numbers will be somewhat improved for more recent OCIs. Thanks for the heads-up, OP.

Umm this is really deceptive.. A good lot of the non-NLJ 250 jobs are at regional firms that start salaries near or above six figures

tkgrrett wrote:Umm this is really deceptive.. A good lot of the non-NLJ 250 jobs are at regional firms that start salaries near or above six figures

You are right.

But I don't know what those are everywhere. And this format is commensurate with the format of the jobs thread that is most cited on TLS.

vandy jobs wrote:

tkgrrett wrote:Umm this is really deceptive.. A good lot of the non-NLJ 250 jobs are at regional firms that start salaries near or above six figures

You are right.

But I don't know what those are everywhere. And this format is commensurate with the format of the jobs thread that is most cited on TLS.

Definitely not accusing you of purposely misrepresenting. Just wanted to point out that the format of the jobs thread does a major disservice to schools like Vandy that place a lot of people in high-pay non-NLJ 250 firms. This format is not really representative of overall job prospects from Vandy.

tkgrrett wrote:

vandy jobs wrote:

tkgrrett wrote:Umm this is really deceptive.. A good lot of the non-NLJ 250 jobs are at regional firms that start salaries near or above six figures

You are right.

But I don't know what those are everywhere. And this format is commensurate with the format of the jobs thread that is most cited on TLS.

Definitely not accusing you of purposely misrepresenting. Just wanted to point out that the format of the jobs thread does a major disservice to schools like Vandy that place a lot of people in high-pay non-NLJ 250 firms. This format is not really representative of overall job prospects from Vandy.

Agreed. Anyone who wants more info can probably ask admissions for the whole packet. If I have time, I will perhaps scan the whole thing. If someone can find the link on the internet, I will add that to the OP as well. And tk, I will definitely add your caveat, as it is well taken.

This is unfortunate, I wonder how big of a clusterfuck TLS will be when 2010 data comes out, officially.

Patriot1208 wrote:This is unfortunate, I wonder how big of a clusterfuck TLS will be when 2010 data comes out, officially.

Half of TLS will say the world is ending, the other half will say that data is useless because anecdotaly the last OCI was reportedly better than the one prior. Neither will be completely right.

JusticeHarlan wrote:

Patriot1208 wrote:This is unfortunate, I wonder how big of a clusterfuck TLS will be when 2010 data comes out, officially.

Half of TLS will say the world is ending, the other half will say that data is useless because anecdotaly the last OCI was reportedly better than the one prior. Neither will be completely right.

Well, the data is always 'useless' since by the time it is reported it shows results of the OCI of 2.5 years ago. However, it remains a viable source of comparison between schools, even ITE.

Good stuff bro

I wonder if anyone has amassed data comparing different schools.

TheThreader wrote:I wonder if anyone has amassed data comparing different schools.

Schools all have this info, but they don't publish it, because lots of people wouldn't go. Vanderbilt is incredibly transparent comparatively.

Anyone have the cornell data that got leaked?

BTW - I think this placement data is actually pretty good. Vandy is currently ranked 17th. For a school ranked 17, they are placing 40% into NLJ250 or clerkships. They also probably place a bunch of people in well paying jobs in the south that arent NLJ250 firms but still pay well.

From this data, I think its safe to say atleast 50% or so of the student body was able to graduate making six figures, even when the economy was at it worst. What more can you ask?

BeachandRun23 wrote:Anyone have the cornell data that got leaked?

BTW - I think this placement data is actually pretty good. Vandy is currently ranked 17th. For a school ranked 17, they are placing 40% into NLJ250 or clerkships. They also probably place a bunch of people in well paying jobs in the south that arent NLJ250 firms but still pay well.

From this data, I think its safe to say atleast 50% or so of the student body was able to graduate making six figures, even when the economy was at it worst. What more can you ask?

+1.

nael wrote:

BeachandRun23 wrote:Anyone have the cornell data that got leaked?

BTW - I think this placement data is actually pretty good. Vandy is currently ranked 17th. For a school ranked 17, they are placing 40% into NLJ250 or clerkships. They also probably place a bunch of people in well paying jobs in the south that arent NLJ250 firms but still pay well.

From this data, I think its safe to say atleast 50% or so of the student body was able to graduate making six figures, even when the economy was at it worst. What more can you ask?

+1.

Well NLJ250 doesn't necessarily mean $100,000 or more. However, Vanderbilt does a good job at placing students and the point of that data is to show that you most likely won't be unemployed. Note that Vanderbilt normally does better than all other non-t14s (except maybe USC/UCLA) in NLJ250 even before the economy tanked - so Texas/Gtown/USC/UCLA/Cornell?/etc. could all be worse.

OCI 2008 was a pretty good year. Lehman collapsed in the fall after most of Biglaw had finished hiring. A lot of the c/o 2010 had BigLaw summers but got no-offered.

Not sure if that means anything to the data you have, but getting no-offered and scramblng for a job in 3L seems different than striking out at OCI and spending both 2L and 3L setting up for something.

spondee wrote:OCI 2008 was a pretty good year. Lehman collapsed in the fall after most of Biglaw had finished hiring. A lot of the c/o 2010 had BigLaw summers but got no-offered.

Not sure if that means anything to the data you have, but getting no-offered and scramblng for a job in 3L seems different than striking out at OCI and spending both 2L and 3L setting up for something.

Uh, since when does most of Biglaw finish hiring 2Ls by September 15th?

nael wrote:

BeachandRun23 wrote:Anyone have the cornell data that got leaked?

BTW - I think this placement data is actually pretty good. Vandy is currently ranked 17th. For a school ranked 17, they are placing 40% into NLJ250 or clerkships. They also probably place a bunch of people in well paying jobs in the south that arent NLJ250 firms but still pay well.

From this data, I think its safe to say atleast 50% or so of the student body was able to graduate making six figures, even when the economy was at it worst. What more can you ask?

+1.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/biglaw-e ... -a-debate/

It's this. It's people who got jobs through OCI, so it's not quite the same. Aside from the fact that Cornell is almost entirely NY firms here (also not necessarily NLJ250, either), you can sort-of generalize.

60% through OCI in 2010
40% through OCI in 2011

again, this isn't necessarily biglaw, just OCI. Someone can count up the firms if they want; I don't have time. I don't know why the dip happened for Cornell in 2011. Indications I heard was that it was better at Vandy OCI 2009.

To be fair, a lot of people don't even consider the NLJ250 to be biglaw, only the V100. The NLJ250 is about as expansive a list as they come as far as biglaw. If a firm is not NLJ250, it is not biglaw, regardless of pay. The study isn't about people who get jobs "at or near six figures" in small boutiques. While fine, the NLJ study was about biglaw.

rad law wrote:

nael wrote:

BeachandRun23 wrote:Anyone have the cornell data that got leaked?

BTW - I think this placement data is actually pretty good. Vandy is currently ranked 17th. For a school ranked 17, they are placing 40% into NLJ250 or clerkships. They also probably place a bunch of people in well paying jobs in the south that arent NLJ250 firms but still pay well.

From this data, I think its safe to say atleast 50% or so of the student body was able to graduate making six figures, even when the economy was at it worst. What more can you ask?

+1.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/biglaw-e ... -a-debate/

It's this. It's people who got jobs through OCI, so it's not quite the same. Aside from the fact that Cornell is almost entirely NY firms here (also not necessarily NLJ250, either), you can sort-of generalize.

60% through OCI in 2010
40% through OCI in 2011

again, this isn't necessarily biglaw, just OCI. Someone can count up the firms if they want; I don't have time. I don't know why the dip happened for Cornell in 2011. Indications I heard was that it was better at Vandy OCI 2009.

I thought everyone generally agreed that the class of 11 who did OCI in 09 had the worst OCI.

Sentry wrote: I thought everyone generally agreed that the class of 11 who did OCI in 09 had the worst OCI.

Maybe I heard wrong. We'll see.

Informative wrote:To be fair, a lot of people don't even consider the NLJ250 to be biglaw, only the V100. The NLJ250 is about as expansive a list as they come as far as biglaw. If a firm is not NLJ250, it is not biglaw, regardless of pay. The study isn't about people who get jobs "at or near six figures" in small boutiques. While fine, the NLJ study was about biglaw.

I get where people are coming from. Because most 0L want to do "biglaw" to get money to pay off loans, it's relevant it there is other high paying stuff there that is not reflected in these figures.

rad law wrote:

Informative wrote:To be fair, a lot of people don't even consider the NLJ250 to be biglaw, only the V100. The NLJ250 is about as expansive a list as they come as far as biglaw. If a firm is not NLJ250, it is not biglaw, regardless of pay. The study isn't about people who get jobs "at or near six figures" in small boutiques. While fine, the NLJ study was about biglaw.

I get where people are coming from. Because most 0L want to do "biglaw" to get money to pay off loans, it's relevant it there is other high paying stuff there that is not reflected in these figures.

Yeah, most people (especially those seriously considering Vandy) want the option of a high-paying job at graduation. In the case of Vandy, AT LEAST 15-20% of the class gets these jobs at non-NLJ 250 firms that pay near, or above, six-figures. That is a number so large that it really shouldnt be just pushed aside.