Will the TX economy lift UT in the rankings? Forum

[niederbomb]

I got accepted into UT as a TX resident (no surprise) and then got a massive scholarship offer (more of a surprise). I applied just to make my parents happy; now, I am rethinking my priorities.

Putting aside my other thread's question regarding where I want to work, here's what I really want to know: Is Texas going to eclipse some of the lower T14 in the next 10 years? In 20 years, will I be happy or regretful if I choose UT over, say, Michigan or Georgetown? How does one go about predicting the future trajectory of a law school?

Let's face it. Many of the best law schools are in socialist states that can't manage money in spite of stifling taxes, and America is a addicted to dwindling oil supplies. In spite of its shortcomings, Texas has plenty of oil, low taxes, and a business-friendly environment.

Will economic factors translate into more money + higher rankings for UT Austin? What will they have to do to attract more top students?

Personally, I think they should cut their class size in half, and they'd shoot up a couple spots on selectivity, $$$/student, and improved employment prospects. That 400-student class size is dragging them down.

EDIT: JazzOne please comment!!!

[Kobe_Teeth]

Let's face it. Many of the best law schools are in socialist states

QF-WTF?

And the economic factors are unlikely to put TX in the T14. If the economic factors surrounding your schools campus had anything to do with that school's ranking then Yale would have dropped out of #1 a long time ago. (from what I understand - i'm not an east coaster - another good example could be MI)

Furthermore, why do you care? TX is the same school at 17 that it would be if it snuck into #14 (which it won't). No firm is going to look at your resume and say "he went to the 14th ranked law school - hire him!" They are going to say "He went to UT, nice."

[Bill Cosby]

This rests on the (unfounded) assumption Texas has a stronger economy than the rest of the nation.

[nonprofit-prophet]

Cutting class size in half would wreck their financials for a few years. That's an 8 million dollar loss in revenue each year. Big hit.
A less expensive way of boosting their ranking would be to change the in-state requirement to 40% of the class (like UVA).

[Aqualibrium]

Better question, and oh do I get sick of asking it: If Texas rises, falls, or stays the same in the rankings, will it matter? What will change besides a number on a magazine page?

[vanwinkle]

TX didn't do that much better than the rest of the country economically, foreclosures were lower there at first but have picked up recently, and they're now facing a massive $20bn state budget shortfall that got hidden by the fact that they only have to calculate the budget once every two years. Things are about to be troublesome there.

All that said, I think what really matters to the rankings is just what hiring does and how UT responds. A lot of people were just going for the best school they could get into, which meant T14 over UT if they got it. Folks who lived in TX knew they had TX ties and were strong in the job market coming back if they went to T14, so they left for greener pastures when they could. People often chose T14 for their theoretical "national reach" as a safety net. Signs indicate hiring nationwide will be a little better this fall than last, and that will mean TX will lose any advantage it had before it could solidify and become a major lasting factor.

What will really matter is UT's own behavior more than anything. A couple years ago their dean launched a massive fundraising campaign aimed at boosting the school's rankings, both by raising funds spent per student and increasing the medians. However, I think the economic downturn hurt that too. They said their goal was making the T10 within 10 years but I don't see that happening, unless they were an unusual exception to the drop in donations everywhere during the recession. They'll keep working at it, but their efforts, not the local economy, will be what makes the difference.

[vanwinkle]

Cutting class size in half would wreck their financials for a few years. That's an 8 million dollar loss in revenue each year. Big hit.
A less expensive way of boosting their ranking would be to change the in-state requirement to 40% of the class (like UVA).

It would also allow them to cut loose a number of professors, which are really the only big expense for a law school. Many are tenured and would need to be bought out, but they could just take an axe to everyone that wasn't and have a small valuable faculty for now that advertises well ("The odds of you getting taught by one of our top names is much higher here!") and I'm sure they could claim it was due to the economy.

Law schools are insanely profitable due to the high tuition and low non-personnel expenses. They'd just have to adjust their faculty numbers and they'd be fine.

[Patriot1208]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... ica/64307/#

This is an ok study. In it, Texas ranks 36th in the country with pretty average numbers and the highest percentage of people in the country without a high school diploma.

The biggest surprise in that article: California finishes 49th, not 50th.

[vanwinkle]

Let's face it. Many of the best law schools are in socialist states that can't manage money in spite of stifling taxes

http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/19/news/ec ... /index.htm

House legislators were forced to rely on spending cuts to close the shortfall -- estimated at between $15 billion and $27 billion -- because Republican leaders pledged not to raise taxes.

[RPK34]

Employment doesn't matter that much for USNWR rankings. Only at graduation and 9 months after, both of which are pretty easily to game for. You usually don't see anything but 95-99% for any top school 9 months out.

Besides, who cares? It's just rankings.

[Grizz]

Better question, and oh do I get sick of asking it: If Texas rises, falls, or stays the same in the rankings, will it matter? What will change besides a number on a magazine page?

This.

[Renzo]

Let's face it. Many of the best law schools are in socialist states.

Seriously. Fuck New York and all those commies on Wall Street. And don't even get me started on those pinkos in Silicon Valley. Finance and technology are dead industries; from here on out, the real economic growth is going to be in depletable resources.

[hipstermafia]

T-14 been the same fourteen schools since usnwr rankings began correct?

[Aqualibrium]

T-14 been the same fourteen schools since usnwr rankings began correct?

I think it's that they were the only ones to ever be in the top 10. UCLA and Texas were both in the top 14 at some point very early in the life of the US News rankings if I remember correctly.

[Renzo]

T-14 been the same fourteen schools since usnwr rankings began correct?

I think it's that they were the only ones to ever be in the top 10. UCLA and Texas were both in the top 14 at some point very early in the life of the US News rankings if I remember correctly.

This is true, but I don't think any school has cracked the T14 since the 80's.

[LLB2JD]

T-14 been the same fourteen schools since usnwr rankings began correct?

I think it's that they were the only ones to ever be in the top 10. UCLA and Texas were both in the top 14 at some point very early in the life of the US News rankings if I remember correctly.

This is true, but I don't think any school has cracked the T14 since the 80's.

And I don't think anyone would be cracking anytime soon. Maybe 2-3 schools could be tied for 14th, but since all the so-called Top law schools are so deft at gaming the rankings, we can expect to see the status quo maintained for the next hundreds of years. This is of course assuming that the world doesn't end in 2012.

[CanadianWolf]

USNews needs increased revenue. Headlines sell news.

[Aqualibrium]

This is of course assuming that the world doesn't end in 2012.

I would be so pissed. Three years of misery for no reason...

[hipstermafia]

This is of course assuming that the world doesn't end in 2012.

I would be so pissed. Three years of misery for no reason...

[things fall apart]

A JUMP 1 OR 2 IN RANKINGS WILL NOT GET YOU OR YOUR CLASSMATES A JOB.

[vanwinkle]

A JUMP 1 OR 2 IN RANKINGS WILL NOT GET YOU OR YOUR CLASSMATES A JOB.

Loud, but valid.

[RPK34]

A JUMP 1 OR 2 IN RANKINGS WILL NOT GET YOU OR YOUR CLASSMATES A JOB.

Unless you're competing for a job against a law student from a school that your law school just moved past in the USNWR rankings. Then it's paramount.

[things fall apart]

A JUMP 1 OR 2 IN RANKINGS WILL NOT GET YOU OR YOUR CLASSMATES A JOB.

Unless you're competing for a job against a law student from a school that your law school just moved past in the USNWR rankings. Then it's paramount.

Jesus. You done ****ed up my day with that comment.

[RPK34]

A JUMP 1 OR 2 IN RANKINGS WILL NOT GET YOU OR YOUR CLASSMATES A JOB.

Unless you're competing for a job against a law student from a school that your law school just moved past in the USNWR rankings. Then it's paramount.

Jesus. You done ****ed up my day with that comment.

You laugh now, but when Vandy kids are kicking ass and taking names in Texas markets after they jump UT, you'll see.

[vanwinkle]

You laugh now, but when Vandy kids are kicking ass and taking names in Texas markets after they jump UT, you'll see.

I lol'd.