Top Law Schools

I am interested in corporate law and finance law. These two law schools cost me
about the same so debt is not a question here.

OCI of Notre Dame was said to be horrible last year. That really scares me.
I was also told that Minnesota did well in landing jobs last year. So I am a
bit confused now.

How does Minnesota students do in legal markets outside its state?
Is Notre Dame that disappointing last year?

pop up. posted for two weeks. Any suggestion is appreciated!

They are about the same, go to Notre Dame for the lay prestige and better weather.

thanks for the first replying to my post.
I was a bit concerned about the OCI data.
How did UMN do last year? Any advice?
Thanks!

Don't think about which will do better at jobs because they're about equal and it's hard to predict which will bounce back from the recession better. The biggest difference will be your individual performance and how well you network.

Just go to whatever place you think you'd like. Lay prestige and college sports vs. awesome city and cold cold cold.

that is really impressive. I thought they had similar weather.

Hannibal wrote:Don't think about which will do better at jobs because they're about equal and it's hard to predict which will bounce back from the recession better. The biggest difference will be your individual performance and how well you network.

Just go to whatever place you think you'd like. Lay prestige and college sports vs. awesome city and cold cold cold.

Hannibal wrote:They are about the same, go to Notre Dame for the lay prestige and better weather.

The weather in Indiana and Minnesota is pretty much equally shitty

I'm not saying Indiana is good weather at all. But I mean...come on. Minnesota.

Hannibal wrote:I'm not saying Indiana is good weather at all. But I mean...come on. Minnesota.

I take it you've never lived in the midwest, the difference is negligible at best. Indiana's like the windiest state in the US so winters there are pretty fucking brutal.

dr123 wrote:

Hannibal wrote:I'm not saying Indiana is good weather at all. But I mean...come on. Minnesota.

I take it you've never lived in the midwest, the difference is negligible at best. Indiana's like the windiest state in the US so winters there are pretty fucking brutal.

That is true, I haven't lived in the midwest. I just looked at the average snowfall and temperature data and assumed that was roughly correspondent to shittyness.

IF ND was in Southern Indiana it'd be a diff story, but south bend is up by lake michigan. Average temp in northern Indiana is only a few degrees higher than in Minnesota. (for me at least) cold is cold, I can't really tell the difference between 22 degrees and 17 degrees. They're both just fucking cold.

Weather is a good topic. Could anyone discuss about job placement of these two law schools?
I also have options for Maryland, Wisconsin, Iowa. all in similar rankings.
I understand it is difficult to find a job from anyone of these schools. Same ranking, same situation.

Hannibal wrote:Don't think about which will do better at jobs because they're about equal and it's hard to predict which will bounce back from the recession better. The biggest difference will be your individual performance and how well you network.

Just go to whatever place you think you'd like. Lay prestige and college sports vs. awesome city and cold cold cold.

I don't really think the bolded is accurate. Yes, Notre Dame is mentioned more frequently than Minnesota in college football conversations. However, Minnesota is a Big Ten school (one of the worse ones for football, but still, and they have a brand new stadium), and outside of football it puts Notre Dame to shame. UM is historically the best hockey school in the country IMO, and one of the best wrestling schools of the past few decades (if you care about wrestling). The basketball team is also currently ranked in the AP top 25, and seems to make the NCAA tournament roughly every other year. I suppose you could say "Lay prestige and college football" and be accurate (arguably, but you would probably win the debate based on historical prestige), but definitely not "Lay prestige and college sports". JMO.

Edit: TL;DR: ND>UM for college football, UM>ND for college sports, bottom line, who gives a shit.

weather and sports are all good. Could people focus on something more related to jobs?
I am really worried about horrible job landing in Notre Dame. Hope to hear something about Minnesota OCI or fall recruitment last year.

FattyMcFatFat wrote:

Hannibal wrote:Don't think about which will do better at jobs because they're about equal and it's hard to predict which will bounce back from the recession better. The biggest difference will be your individual performance and how well you network.

Just go to whatever place you think you'd like. Lay prestige and college sports vs. awesome city and cold cold cold.

I don't really think the bolded is accurate. Yes, Notre Dame is mentioned more frequently than Minnesota in college football conversations. However, Minnesota is a Big Ten school (one of the worse ones for football, but still, and they have a brand new stadium), and outside of football it puts Notre Dame to shame. UM is historically the best hockey school in the country IMO, and one of the best wrestling schools of the past few decades (if you care about wrestling). The basketball team is also currently ranked in the AP top 25, and seems to make the NCAA tournament roughly every other year. I suppose you could say "Lay prestige and college football" and be accurate (arguably, but you would probably win the debate based on historical prestige), but definitely not "Lay prestige and college sports". JMO.

Edit: TL;DR: ND>UM for college football, UM>ND for college sports, bottom line, who gives a shit.

FattyMcFatFat wrote:

Hannibal wrote:Don't think about which will do better at jobs because they're about equal and it's hard to predict which will bounce back from the recession better. The biggest difference will be your individual performance and how well you network.

Just go to whatever place you think you'd like. Lay prestige and college sports vs. awesome city and cold cold cold.

I don't really think the bolded is accurate. Yes, Notre Dame is mentioned more frequently than Minnesota in college football conversations. However, Minnesota is a Big Ten school (one of the worse ones for football, but still, and they have a brand new stadium), and outside of football it puts Notre Dame to shame. UM is historically the best hockey school in the country IMO, and one of the best wrestling schools of the past few decades (if you care about wrestling). The basketball team is also currently ranked in the AP top 25, and seems to make the NCAA tournament roughly every other year. I suppose you could say "Lay prestige and college football" and be accurate (arguably, but you would probably win the debate based on historical prestige), but definitely not "Lay prestige and college sports". JMO.

Edit: TL;DR: ND>UM for college football, UM>ND for college sports, bottom line, who gives a shit.

This post couldn't be more wrong. Notre Dame's 'other sports' are actually the best part of the athletic program, football has been down for years although it is getting better.

Women's soccer- national champs
Men's soccer- Sweet 16
Men's hockey- ranked #10 (Minnesota has a traditional advantage here, but not this year...and we were in the title game three years ago)
Men's basketball- ranked #7AP/#8 Coaches (Minnesota is about to fall about of both polls)
Women's basketball- Ranked #8 in both polls (Minnesota nowhere to be found)
Men's lacrosse- made the national championship game last year (Minnesota doesn't know what lacrosse is)
Women's lacrosse- ranked in the top 15 every year for the past decade

What else do you want in terms of sports? Oh, and we currently have the best fencer in the country (as per the last Olympics).

As for job placement, I would say the two schools are roughly equal, but the stats from 2009 give ND a pretty wide advantage in NLJ 250- 28.8 vs. 19.4. I would say only go to Minnesota if you are pretty sure you want to work in Minneapolis, since the market there is fairly insular and they tend to hire a lot from in-state schools.

U of Minnesota has a sweet tunnel system. Can't pass up a school with tunnels.

adude wrote:U of Minnesota has a sweet tunnel system. Can't pass up a school with tunnels.

My thread now totally turned to an issue related with college sports.
Hope more suggestions on other aspects.

Look at the bottom of my last post...I don't know what else to tell you about the two schools. Multiple people telling you the same data probably won't help.

Depends where you want to work. If the costs are equal, I'd personally choose Notre Dame for the additional portability.

Go to UM so I can have your spot and get off the ND WL but seriously I'd say ND would carry more lay prestige, and if debt is no issue, I would go to ND in a heartbeat.

I have the c/o 2009 report for ND, which accounts for where all our students went. It's not this fall's OCI data, or even c/o 2010 (the nadir of the economy) data, but it's what I've got. Send me a drop email address and I can send it to you. In general, I've been pretty impressed at the job ND does of getting grads jobs.

IamAskier wrote:Go to UM so I can have your spot and get off the ND WL but seriously I'd say ND would carry more lay prestige, and if debt is no issue, I would go to ND in a heartbeat.

lol lay prestige = pretty worthless

Thank you for everyone posted to my question!
I had the employment report of 2009 and I am aware of advantages of Notre Dame compared with UMN. Most of the people I consulted in this forum preferred Notre Dame. I appreciate your
suggestions.

rad law wrote:

IamAskier wrote:Go to UM so I can have your spot and get off the ND WL but seriously I'd say ND would carry more lay prestige, and if debt is no issue, I would go to ND in a heartbeat.

lol lay prestige = pretty worthless

This is so not true it's ridiculous.

flcath wrote:

rad law wrote:

IamAskier wrote:Go to UM so I can have your spot and get off the ND WL but seriously I'd say ND would carry more lay prestige, and if debt is no issue, I would go to ND in a heartbeat.

lol lay prestige = pretty worthless

This is so not true it's ridiculous.

+1.

It matters more than you think.