UVA (90k) v. CLS v. NYU Forum

[Oracl3]

Hi, I've been thinking about this for a while. Right now I live in NYC and work as a corporate legal assistant. I haven't decided exactly what I want to do after law school. Maybe GLBT public interest work / maybe big law. I want to live in DC, NYC, Bay or Seattle. My family will give me some money but I will be paying for most of law school.

Do you think NYU/CLS is worth giving up a big scholarship and instate tuition at UVA? Is CLS really any better than NYU?

[bk1]

If purely for PI work then I say take the T6 and use LRAP.

In other cases, and I think a better overall decision, I'd say UVa.

[bdubs]

See what you can get out of NYU. $90k is nothing to scoff at, hopefully they will give you some serious consideration. It sounds like NYU would be one of the best fits for your career interests. If I were you I would probably take NYU with 50k+ otherwise UVA.

[KibblesAndVick]

I say follow the money, but I'm pretty risk adverse. Everyone comes to their own conclusions on what schools are worth sticker. Personally, with the legal economy being what it is I'd be scared shitless of paying sticker anywhere besides HYS.

As for your last question, CLS isn't particularly better than NYU. People say that they have different "feels" to them so if you decide against UVA you should check them both out for yourself and see where you're more comfortable.

[r6_philly]

You are quick!

This is very useful for me as well, don't mind me if I tag on and see what people say.

[Tanicius]

Someone who doesn't take the 90k is INSANE. Think for a moment about how much money that is. I'm planning on PI myself, but I'm not banking on the certainty that these LRAP programs will remain as strong as they are today, or that federal IBR will either. The differences between these schools are nowhere near enough to justify turning down half a mortgage in scholarships.

[BarbellDreams]

UVA + 90k + instate tuition?! Yes please.

[r6_philly]

UVA + 90k + instate tuition?! Yes please.

Instate is only 5k less, so is it CCN better than UVa by 105k? What if LRAP is considered?

[A&O]

Go to UVA. Save money. If you end 1L with good grades, you'll have nearly the same opportunities and less debt to pay-off. If you end 1L with bad grades, you'll be glad knowing you're only 60k in the hole rather than 180k.

[bk1]

UVA + 90k + instate tuition?! Yes please.

Instate is only 5k less, so is it CCN better than UVa by 105k? What if LRAP is considered?

Also, CLS CoA: 74k, UVa CoA: 62.7k (in-state). So it's a difference of 212k debt versus 98k debt. Not a whole lot, but in-state and CoL give you another 34k difference. 100k debt is still a lot though.

[r6_philly]

UVA + 90k + instate tuition?! Yes please.

Instate is only 5k less, so is it CCN better than UVa by 105k? What if LRAP is considered?

Also, CLS CoA: 74k, UVa CoA: 62.7k (in-state). So it's a difference of 212k debt versus 98k debt. Not a whole lot, but in-state and CoL give you another 34k difference. 100k debt is still a lot though.

So you would take UVa with 90k than CCN for anything outside of NYC biglaw?

[A&O]

So you would take UVa with 90k than CCN for anything outside of NYC biglaw?

I don't think the fact that one is not going after biglaw in NYC makes a difference here.

[r6_philly]

BTW I am only asking questions, not offering opinions.

[A&O]

BTW I am only asking questions, not offering opinions.

...and you got your answers.

[bk1]

So you would take UVa with 90k than CCN for anything outside of NYC biglaw?

I don't think the fact that one is not going after biglaw in NYC makes a difference here.

I think I'd take UVa here, though A&O's 60k debt figure was a bit rosy (even when you factor that law school CoA's tend to overestimate).

[r6_philly]

BTW I am only asking questions, not offering opinions.

...and you got your answers.

Thanks, I just want to make that clear, since my questions sounded a bit like opinions.

What if I want other regions like CA?

[A&O]

What if I want other regions like CA?

The answers are the same.

[r6_philly]

What if I want other regions like CA?

The answers are the same.

Awesome. Thank you.

[Oracl3]

I am surprised by your near consensus. Every attorney I have talked to has told me that I should go to the best school I get into period. This includes UVA/Duke graduates now working as partners at top firms. They have said things like there is a clear pecking order and that where you get your JD influences the rest of your career. Everyone here knows that CLS and NYU are better schools with more prestige than UVA. On top of that NYC seems like a far better place to live in terms of social and professional networking than Charlottesville.

It seems like a really hard choice to me.

But you all think it is an easy one. Do you have reasons beyond "If you fail you will really wish you were only $100,000 in debt?"

[r6_philly]

I am surprised by your near consensus. Every attorney I have talked to has told me that I should go to the best school I get into period. This includes UVA/Duke graduates now working as partners at top firms. They have said things like there is a clear pecking order and that where you get your JD influences the rest of your career. Everyone here knows that CLS and NYU are better schools with more prestige than UVA. On top of that NYC seems like a far better place to live in terms of social and professional networking than Charlottesville.

It seems like a really hard choice to me.

But you all think it is an easy one. Do you have reasons beyond "If you fail you will really wish you were only $100,000 in debt?"

Sorry for using your thread too, but 80% is very very very surprising.

[bk1]

I am surprised by your near consensus. Every attorney I have talked to has told me that I should go to the best school I get into period. This includes UVA/Duke graduates now working as partners at top firms. They have said things like there is a clear pecking order and that where you get your JD influences the rest of your career. Everyone here knows that CLS and NYU are better schools with more prestige than UVA. On top of that NYC seems like a far better place to live in terms of social and professional networking than Charlottesville.

It seems like a really hard choice to me.

But you all think it is an easy one. Do you have reasons beyond "If you fail you will really wish you were only $100,000 in debt?"

You're only spending 3 years in Charlottesville and preference of NYC over it is merely that: preference.

And the "if you fail" which basically means "if you strike out of biglaw and can't find something that qualifies for LRAP" is a pretty good argument considering you have a decent chance of that happening out of CLS/NYU.

And it's not like UVa/Duke grads can't get the V10. Once you have V10 on your resume, I don't see the fact that you went to UVa as that much different from going to CLS.

[bikepilot]

I am pretty sure that if those were my choices I'd do UVA. I was really torn between a nearly full ride at UVA and full costs at HLS (HLS doesn't give merit scholarships). I chose HLS and liked it a lot. Now that my nice biglaw paycheck goes straight to those loans UVA looks a bit better. In hindsight, though I'd probably still do HLS again - its an absolutely awesome school, just expensive.

I've only been practicing for a few months, but as best I can tell your school doesn't make a huge difference after the first year or two. Also, when attorneys say go to the best school you can, I doubt many are thinking in terms of a couple of spots on USNWR, but are more or less saying don't go to a T2 if you can go to HLS or similar. I wouldn't be confident in saying that NYU or Columbia are considered better than UVA by hiring partners in DC firms (they might, but its far from obvious from my perspective based on general feel and summer class mates that did and didn't get offers).

So from my POV I'd say HYS are worth the full costs for most people who have that option, otherwise among the T14 I wouldn't split hairs too much, especially with that much $$$ involved (there are of course exceptions - like if you were dead set on practicing in NY, I'd guess that the NY schools would be better or if you find one school a much better fit than the others for your particular interests).

My perspective is mostly based on DC biglaw, it wouldn't surprise me if you got a different story from NYC biglaw.

Also take into account COL - its dirt cheap to live near UVA and NYC is of course quite a bit more expensive. I'd guess that over three years time COL will probably be another 60k or so in NYC.

[Cavalier]

Go to UVA. With in-state tuition and a lower COL, UVA will be well over $100,000 cheaper than CLS and NYU, and it's not worth giving up that much money for a non-YHS school.

[clintonius]

I love it at NYU, and I would be pretty unsure about recommending it over the money at UVA. 90k is hefty. It's probably worth your while to haggle with NYU and CLS and see what they'll give you.

[Frankie55]

Would it be right to say that if the OP had insisted on NYC biglaw, the poll results might be different? Or does UVA have a decent enough chance with that market to still make the 90k tempting? It seems like bk187 makes a valid point: If you end up at midlaw, you may very well end up wishing you had 100k instead of 200k in debt.