Top Law Schools

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. My numbers are 172/4.0, and I've been accepted to two of HYS. Most people I've talked to think I'd be crazy to attend another school for anything less than a full ride, but my fiancée's applying to PhD programs (i.e. I won't be able to attend Harvard or Yale if she's not accepted to a school in the area), and with my LSAT it's extremely unlikely that I'll be competitive for a Darrow at Michigan (no invite yet, so no invite), a Rubenstein at Chicago, a Hamilton at Columbia, a Mordecai at Duke, or a Furman at NYU. I'd have no real problem attending any school I've applied to, but having no choice but to take 54K at Michigan or 60K at Duke wouldn't be ideal.

I'm thinking about negotiating soon after I get an initial offer from some of these schools. Is there a tasteful way to suggest that they should bump, say, a half-tuition offer up to something close to a full ride just because I've been accepted to Harvard and Yale? I don't mean to sound arrogant, but it seems like most schools below HYS would be flattered that a Yale admit's still considering them. I don't want to do this if might hurt my chances, though--virtually zero Yale admits end up attending non-HYS schools, so I'd hate for schools to think a full-ride offer would be wasted on me despite my profession of continued interest. I think I almost have to mention the fact that I'm applying along with my fiancée in order for schools to take me seriously when I say I really might attend if given a higher offer, but I don't want them to think that I'd be bitter about "having" to attend their school or calculate that I probably wouldn't attend in any case, given that it's extremely difficult for the average PhD applicant to get into any one school.

It's true that I've got nothing to lose once I receive an initial financial offer, but I know it would feel and seem awfully presumptuous of me to ask for a Darrow invite/Mordecai nomination (this is essentially what I'd be doing, though not in so many words), especially since named-scholarship recipients typically have way higher LSATs than I do.

Thoughts? (Please don't steer the conversation to whether I should live apart from my bride-to-be for 3 years to attend Yale. My mind's entirely made up on that point.)

dbrddr wrote:Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. My numbers are 172/4.0, and I've been accepted to two of HYS. Most people I've talked to think I'd be crazy to attend another school for anything less than a full ride, but my fiancée's applying to PhD programs (i.e. I won't be able to attend Harvard or Yale if she's not accepted to a school in the area), and with my LSAT it's extremely unlikely that I'll be competitive for a Darrow at Michigan (no invite yet, so no invite), a Rubenstein at Chicago, a Hamilton at Columbia, a Mordecai at Duke, or a Furman at NYU. I'd have no real problem attending any school I've applied to, but having no choice but to take 54K at Michigan or 60K at Duke wouldn't be ideal.

I'm thinking about negotiating soon after I get an initial offer from some of these schools. Is there a tasteful way to suggest that they should bump, say, a half-tuition offer up to something close to a full ride just because I've been accepted to Harvard and Yale? I don't mean to sound arrogant, but it seems like most schools below HYS would be flattered that a Yale admit's still considering them. I don't want to do this if might hurt my chances, though--virtually zero Yale admits end up attending non-HYS schools, so I'd hate for schools to think a full-ride offer would be wasted on me despite my profession of continued interest. I think I almost have to mention the fact that I'm applying along with my fiancée in order for schools to take me seriously when I say I really might attend if given a higher offer, but I don't want them to think that I'd be bitter about "having" to attend their school or calculate that I probably wouldn't attend in any case, given that it's extremely difficult for the average PhD applicant to get into any one school.

It's true that I've got nothing to lose once I receive an initial financial offer, but I know it would feel and seem awfully presumptuous of me to ask for a Darrow invite/Mordecai nomination (this is essentially what I'd be doing, though not in so many words), especially since named-scholarship recipients typically have way higher LSATs than I do.

Thoughts? (Please don't steer the conversation to whether I should live apart from my bride-to-be for 3 years to attend Yale. My mind's entirely made up on that point.)

I would emphasize the fiance situation more than HYS b/c these schools do still have ego and they prob believe they're just as good as HYS. At the same time, you need to consider that this could hurt your future as a lawyer. You will get great oportunities from other schools you mentioned but HYS still does have a bit of an edge when looking for SAs and a job. Additionally, PhD programs are more than 3 years aren't they? You have to consider do you want to be stuck in Durham or Ann Arbor for example out of law school. You would be giving up a lot career wise. And not to be a jerk but you'll prob be the primary breadwinner for a while so keep that in mind.

In applying only the sniff test, it seems unlikely that a T14 school would give you a higher scholarship simply because you have been accepted at Y/H/S. As you said, most students in that position would simply attend one of the three, and the other top schools are probably okay with that.

I honestly don't think you should feel too presumptuous in asking for a full-ride scholarship invite, which is probably your best bet in receiving what you seek. If you were special enough for Yale, then you may have a chance at convincing a Michigan/Duke/etc that you are worthy of a full ride. If nothing else, being honest about why you are asking for the opportunity to apply for one should not hurt you. I cannot imagine that simply asking would in any way preclude you from receiving what amount of merit aid you would have received anyways.

With all that being said, I'm not sure how exactly your fiancée will be able to attend a PhD program near where you receive a full ride, but not near Yale. The Northeast is fairly clustered together, whereas somewhere like Ann Arbor is not.

Perhaps once you have a better idea about where your fiancée is going, that would help clear up the picture. Still, if you are set for Yale or Harvard, I cannot imagine why you can't be assumed to be the breadwinner and have here attend a nearby school. Does she have a shot at a top 3 program as well?

Either way, best of luck to you. Like many on TLS, I am jealous.

I would. But say that it is not ideal for you because of x y and z, and you'd rather attend michigan...duke...etc. Also mention the fiance situtation.

I hope shes very greatful to have a future husband like you though, because you're basically set for life if you attend yale. Not that you couldnt have just as good of a career at these other schools, but things could also go much different.

Now I understand you have to be happy in life and happiness is worth more than some money. Most of TLS doesn't udnerstand that and thinks money = happiness. Nevertheless, youre giving up alot. i hope she appreciates it.

But also, why cant she attend a school in the northeast? Theres plenty of schools close to yale...

BeachandRun23 wrote:I would. But say that it is not ideal for you because of x y and z, and you'd rather attend michigan...duke...etc. Also mention the fiance situtation.

I hope shes very greatful to have a future husband like you though, because you're basically set for life if you attend yale. Not that you couldnt have just as good of a career at these other schools, but things could also go much different.

Now I understand you have to be happy in life and happiness is worth more than some money. Most of TLS doesn't udnerstand that and thinks money = happiness. Nevertheless, youre giving up alot. i hope she appreciates it.

But also, why cant she attend a school in the northeast? Theres plenty of schools close to yale...

+1,000,000

For the sanity of TLS, this is a question that needs to be answered.

Think of the long term. TT jobs are tough to come by for even the best PhD's. It is very likely that she has to take a job at a school far away from a bustling legal hot spot in order for her career to pan out. It will be much easier with a Yale JD to waltz into a job in an unknown market 8 years from now. Unless she is getting a PhD in a hard science, in which case ignore my advice.

You going to yale is certainly more important for the future of you two than the differences in ph.d programs from those schools close to yale and Michigan.

I think if you will not be able able to attend YHS for family reasons it is worth trying to negotiate with the other schools for more money. Obv not guaranteed it will happen, but people often use acceptance letters and financial offers from other schools to negotiate I think. From what I have read this can be effective.

So, you're basically saying, "Well, I want to go to HYS, but I'll consider your school, even though it may only turn out to be a last resort....that is, if you can recognize the awesomeness of my HYS acceptances and hand over a full-ride in a fit of jealousy!"

Might be hard to convey those sentiments smoothly.

Don't mention HYS. Just focus on why you want that particular school, and explain (or invent) the circumstances.

[/quote] I would emphasize the fiance situation more than HYS b/c these schools do still have ego and they prob believe they're just as good as HYS. [/quote]

I respectfully disagree. I don't think that any other law schools think they are as good as YHS, at least not in the one place that matters.

magicman554 wrote:So, you're basically saying, "Well, I want to go to HYS, but I'll consider your school, even though it may only turn out to be a last resort....that is, if you can recognize the awesomeness of my HYS acceptances and hand over a full-ride in a fit of jealousy!"

Might be hard to convey those sentiments smoothly.

Don't mention HYS. Just focus on why you want that particular school, and explain (or invent) the circumstances.

I know someone who elected not to go to Yale after receiving the Darrow. Get the invites, then you have a chance. That will be much easier than asking them to increase merit aid because you are so amazing that you were admitted to Yale but don't want to go there (I say this without sarcasm).

Older Chest wrote:With all that being said, I'm not sure how exactly your fiancée will be able to attend a PhD program near where you receive a full ride, but not near Yale. The Northeast is fairly clustered together, whereas somewhere like Ann Arbor is not.

BeachandRun23 wrote:But also, why cant she attend a school in the northeast? Theres plenty of schools close to yale...

Quite understandably, we want to live together (not just in the same region) for our first three years of marriage. She'll likely be admitted to 4-6 schools in as many different places. It just so happens that it'll be most difficult for her to get into Yale or one of the two schools she applied to in the Boston area. I created this thread to seek advice on how to put myself in the best financial position in case Harvard and Yale turn out not to be options for me, though I certainly hope they will be.

Older Chest wrote:I know someone who elected not to go to Yale after receiving the Darrow. Get the invites, then you have a chance. That will be much easier than asking them to increase merit aid because you are so amazing that you were admitted to Yale but don't want to go there (I say this without sarcasm).

I didn't get Darrow invite and likely won't get any others--that's my point. If you've got any tips on how I can get named-scholarship invites without informing schools of the HY acceptances, I'm all ears. And I definitely never said I don't want to go to Yale.

Can't hurt. The schools know how this game is played. The ego stroking comes into play like this:

"The people here are definately the sort of folks that I want to have as classmates and Ann Arbor is absolutely wonderful, I could really see myself living here for 3 years.

I would like to enter private practice. I've been accepted to Yale and I know that YLS would give me an excelent shot at employment with a large firm. However, I'd realy like to work for a small or midsized law firm. I know that due to Michigan's collegial atmosphere, this is a much better place to set up the sort of network that I'm going to need to accomplish my goal, however, I wouldn't feel comfortable persuing this route with substantial loans hanging over my head. I know that if I graduate with 6 figures in debt, I'm going to feel pressured to work for a large firm.

My heart is telling me that Michigan is where I'd be happiest but I'm also concerned with making a prudent financial decision for my new family. If there is some way that you could re-evaluate my aid award I would be extremely greatful.

Thank you for the honor of your offer of admission, I remain excited about the possibility of starting law school next fall in Michigan blue.

Sincerely,

Anon"

Though you may want to re-consider the person you're marrying if she won't let you go to YLS...

Veyron wrote:Though you may want to re-consider the person you're marrying if she won't let you go to YLS...

She's not vetoing my YLS acceptance--it's just that neither one of us wants to be apart from the other, and it may be that we can only live together if I don't attend YLS. She's made a few sacrifices for me, too, like not applying to some of the top programs in her field (Princeton, Carnegie Mellon, UCLA) not in the same city as a T-14. Thanks for your input, though

dbrddr wrote:

Veyron wrote:Though you may want to re-consider the person you're marrying if she won't let you go to YLS...

She's not vetoing my YLS acceptance--it's just that neither one of us wants to be apart from the other, and it may be that we can only live together if I don't attend YLS. She's made a few sacrifices for me, too, like not applying to some of the top programs in her field (Princeton, Carnegie-Mellon, UCLA) not in the same city as a T-14. Thanks for your input, though

Lol, all right.. must be true love.

I do hope the template was helpful though, I used something fairly similar (but better edited) to get $ out of Penn. Obviously details have been changed to protect the guilty.

Negotiating's definitely a no-go at Michigan. My Dean's scholarship letter says this: "once we have awarded a merit scholarship, it is not our practice to 'compete' with awards from other schools. . . . we do not increase merit awards once they are made"

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If you do decide to negotiate, then it may harm your negotiating strength if you mention your SO--which would give that law school an advantage. Your advantage is your acceptances to Yale & Harvard (not that your SO cannot pursue her PhD studies at Yale or Harvard).

P.S. Another method of negotiating would be to ask for an extension of time in which to accept or reject a law school's offer because you have been accepted to Yale/Harvard & need more time to decide. This requires the law school to make the next move.

dbrddr wrote:Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. My numbers are 172/4.0, and I've been accepted to two of HYS. Most people I've talked to think I'd be crazy to attend another school for anything less than a full ride, but my fiancée's applying to PhD programs (i.e. I won't be able to attend Harvard or Yale if she's not accepted to a school in the area), and with my LSAT it's extremely unlikely that I'll be competitive for a Darrow at Michigan (no invite yet, so no invite), a Rubenstein at Chicago, a Hamilton at Columbia, a Mordecai at Duke, or a Furman at NYU. I'd have no real problem attending any school I've applied to, but having no choice but to take 54K at Michigan or 60K at Duke wouldn't be ideal.

I'm thinking about negotiating soon after I get an initial offer from some of these schools. Is there a tasteful way to suggest that they should bump, say, a half-tuition offer up to something close to a full ride just because I've been accepted to Harvard and Yale? I don't mean to sound arrogant, but it seems like most schools below HYS would be flattered that a Yale admit's still considering them. I don't want to do this if might hurt my chances, though--virtually zero Yale admits end up attending non-HYS schools, so I'd hate for schools to think a full-ride offer would be wasted on me despite my profession of continued interest. I think I almost have to mention the fact that I'm applying along with my fiancée in order for schools to take me seriously when I say I really might attend if given a higher offer, but I don't want them to think that I'd be bitter about "having" to attend their school or calculate that I probably wouldn't attend in any case, given that it's extremely difficult for the average PhD applicant to get into any one school.

It's true that I've got nothing to lose once I receive an initial financial offer, but I know it would feel and seem awfully presumptuous of me to ask for a Darrow invite/Mordecai nomination (this is essentially what I'd be doing, though not in so many words), especially since named-scholarship recipients typically have way higher LSATs than I do.

Thoughts? (Please don't steer the conversation to whether I should live apart from my bride-to-be for 3 years to attend Yale. My mind's entirely made up on that point.)

Anyone else LOL at the bolded?

Yes I also laughed. I think we have to remember that this has NOTHING to do with the law schools at this point and everything to do with the girlfriend.

CG614 wrote:Anyone else LOL at the bolded?

I know, that sounded pretty douchey. Maybe "surprised" or "pleased" would have been a better word?

CanadianWolf wrote:If you do decide to negotiate, then it may harm your negotiating strength if you mention your SO--which would give that law school an advantage. Your advantage is your acceptances to Yale & Harvard (not that your SO cannot pursue her PhD studies at Yale or Harvard).

P.S. Another method of negotiating would be to ask for an extension of time in which to accept or reject a law school's offer because you have been accepted to Yale/Harvard & need more time to decide. This requires the law school to make the next move.

Mentioning my SO would at least give them a concrete reason to believe I might actually attend.

It wouldn't make sense to ask for more time to decide at any other time than late March/early April. I'm pretty sure most (maybe all) of the named scholarships will have been handed out by then, as there's usually a nomination/invitation + essay/interview process

Your numbers give you a shot at getting a fullride from Northwestern. It seems hit or miss on who they offer it too, but you should apply if there is a chance of your girlfriend.

I seriously doubt these types of threads are looking for legitimate advice as compared to be seeking recognition.

Dear OP, We all bow down to your greatness. Now make your own damn decisions.

Desert Fox wrote:Your numbers give you a shot at getting a fullride from Northwestern

Still in undergrad (no shot, no thanks)

Whatsawahooanyway wrote:I seriously doubt these types of threads are looking for legitimate advice as compared to be seeking recognition.

Dear OP, We all bow down to your greatness. Now make your own damn decisions.

I'd tentatively decided to ask for more money by mentioning other acceptances if that might work, and I came here seeking users' thoughts on how effective that strategy might be. There's no way to ask any of the legitimate questions I have at this point without coming across as boastful.

/thread, I guess.