If I want to practice in LA I should go to... Forum

[BruceWayne]

Thats because the south as a whole is not very attractive. The coasts is where its at. Or i guess Texas for some people

That's not true at all. For one thing Atlanta is the most popular market at UVA after NYC, DC, and California. Hell, the Southern states have increased in population such that the Census says they need more seats in the Senate. NY is losing a seat. Texas and the South are attracting a lot of people because of the weather, high number of jobs compared to the NE and California, and low COL. Duke just gets more northern students than UVA and their reputation is not as strong in the South as UVA's is.

[Reedie]

Duke just gets more northern students than UVA and their reputation is not as strong in the South as UVA's is.

That's a pretty bold statement. I'm not sure I'd buy that either Virginia or Duke clearly has a "stronger" reputation in the South. They both do well in the South, but far more students are going to DC+NYC than to the South at both schools. Virginia does have more Virginians than Duke does Carolinians because Virginia has to reserve a certain number of spots for Virginians.

Your broader point about the New South is well taken. The economy along i85 is growing, and attracting transplants because of job opportunities and a low cost of living. It's also proved more robust in the downturn than some other growing regions like Nevada. So far, however, from what I can tell this region still hasn't developed a central legal market that really competes closely with DC and NYC for sheer size. I expect it to eventually. If I were looking for biglaw and picking a market based on expected growth I'd probably go somewhere in the New South.

[RVP11]

Almost every big ATL firm I know of interviews at Duke (the exception is apparently McKenna). NALP shows 10 Atlanta firms going to Duke OCI - that's a lot. At any east coast school you can't expect more than about ten or twelve firms to come from each non-NYC/DC market.

Yes, that's not what I meant. I didn't mean that Atlanta firms don't interview at Duke. I meant that it's interesting how much NY+DC still dominate hiring. The New South still doesn't have a big enough legal market (or an attractive enough one) to come in and grab big numbers of students from Duke and Virginia (and maybe even Vandy, I don't know their numbers).

You did say "how few recruiters come." The recruiters do come, clearly.

It's not really that surprising that NYC and DC get the most people. They have the most firms with the biggest classes. Plus secondary markets generally require ties, and there probably aren't more than a dozen or so people in any given law school class from any given city (like Atlanta).

[RVP11]

Thats because the south as a whole is not very attractive. The coasts is where its at. Or i guess Texas for some people

Not really, dude. Way more people at UVA and Duke would like to go to "New South" cities like Charlotte or Atlanta than actually get the opportunity.

[005618502]

Thats because the south as a whole is not very attractive. The coasts is where its at. Or i guess Texas for some people

Not really, dude. Way more people at UVA and Duke would like to go to "New South" cities like Charlotte or Atlanta than actually get the opportunity.

Over places like CA and NY? really, i guess i just dont see it. I grew up in CA and enjoy Texas, but there is alot it doesnt offer

[BruceWayne]

Duke just gets more northern students than UVA and their reputation is not as strong in the South as UVA's is.

That's a pretty bold statement. I'm not sure I'd buy that either Virginia or Duke clearly has a "stronger" reputation in the South. They both do well in the South, but far more students are going to DC+NYC than to the South at both schools. Virginia does have more Virginians than Duke does Carolinians because Virginia has to reserve a certain number of spots for Virginians.

Your broader point about the New South is well taken. The economy along i85 is growing, and attracting transplants because of job opportunities and a low cost of living. It's also proved more robust in the downturn than some other growing regions like Nevada. So far, however, from what I can tell this region still hasn't developed a central legal market that really competes closely with DC and NYC for sheer size. I expect it to eventually. If I were looking for biglaw and picking a market based on expected growth I'd probably go somewhere in the New South.

It's not "bold" at all. As someone familiar with people from both schools, UVA has the highest percentage of Southerners out of any top 14 school. As far as UVA and Duke's rep in the South goes; I think you're mixing up Duke as an overall institution with the rep of it's law school in the South. UVA Law Southern rep is incredible because it's such an old school, and because it sends a substantial amount of its grads to the South. It never ceases to amaze me how unknown UVA is to the layperson, but how every Southern lawyer I've met has been borderline floored when I tell them that I attend UVA law.

ver places like CA and NY? really, i guess i just dont see it. I grew up in CA and enjoy Texas, but there is alot it doesnt offer

That's because you're not from the South (and probably haven't spent much time there) and you're probably in your early 20s. For people who are focused on a low stress lifestyle and having their money go far in terms of purchasing power, it's very attractive. Combine that with the weather and you have a part of the country that is rapidly growing.

[005618502]

ver places like CA and NY? really, i guess i just dont see it. I grew up in CA and enjoy Texas, but there is alot it doesnt offer

That's because you're not from the South (and probably haven't spent much time there) and you're probably in your early 20s. For people who are focused on a low stress lifestyle and having their money go far in terms of purchasing power, it's very attractive. Combine that with the weather and you have a part of the country that is rapidly growing.[/quote]

Weather is the one thing that turns me off about the south. June-September are absolutely miserable. And ive been living in the "south" for 4 years now, that is quite some time. But yes i am in my younger 20's

[johnnyutah]

OP: the consensus seems to be to take Duke. I disagree. Even if you're more likely to get LA BigLaw out of Duke than out of USC, I think you've got to make a decision keeping in mind that there is a really good possibility that you won't be able to get BigLaw. If that happens, you're going to have to pound the pavement to find a job, and that'll be way, way easier if you're physically in LA. You'll be able to go to LA bar networking events and such from your 1L year on, and that's how the majority of law students get their jobs.

In sum: might be easier to get LA BigLaw from Duke, but it's worth at least considering hedging your bets by staying in LA in case that doesn't happen.

[Reedie]

OP: the consensus seems to be to take Duke. I disagree. Even if you're more likely to get LA BigLaw out of Duke than out of USC, I think you've got to make a decision keeping in mind that there is a really good possibility that you won't be able to get BigLaw. If that happens, you're going to have to pound the pavement to find a job, and that'll be way, way easier if you're physically in LA. You'll be able to go to LA bar networking events and such from your 1L year on, and that's how the majority of law students get their jobs.

In sum: might be easier to get LA BigLaw from Duke, but it's worth at least considering hedging your bets by staying in LA in case that doesn't happen.

I think this is more or less what I've been saying. However, I think it's possible Duke provides slightly better job prospects overall, and (more importantly) it's going to be easier to go there with a lower total debt burden than UCLA. but ymmv.

[NorCalBruin]

Thanks for all of the good thoughts! Appreciate it. It's not going to be an easy decision.

I'll update this thread when I get in / wl / or rejected from USC / UCLA.

[RVP11]

Thats because the south as a whole is not very attractive. The coasts is where its at. Or i guess Texas for some people

Not really, dude. Way more people at UVA and Duke would like to go to "New South" cities like Charlotte or Atlanta than actually get the opportunity.

Over places like CA and NY? really, i guess i just dont see it. I grew up in CA and enjoy Texas, but there is alot it doesnt offer

Yes, over places like CA and NY.

NY surely isn't for everyone, and other than people who are originally from the West I haven't met a single soul who tried to get a job in CA.

[kings84_wr]

I actually think there is some advantage at oci at schools outside of LA. At UCLA probably 80-90% are targeting CA jobs (complete guess maybe I'm off). You are competing with basically every top student at the school. Whereas at Duke the competition is significantly smaller. I have no idea how many students there target CA but its certainly far less then 80%.

LA ties + Duke is probably better then UCLA where everyone has LA ties and everyone is targeting the same market.

Yeah top 1/3 or so at UCLA has a very good shot at Biglaw in LA, but beyond that it gets much more difficult.

[Fark-o-vision]

People on this board overestimate immediate returns on education. Yes, t14 will give you better immediate opportunities than either UCLA or USC, though I haven't seen any data to suggest that any school does better than UCLA in Los Angeles. As a life time Los Angeles resident, I can assure you that USC carries the weight in this city. If you even suspect you ever want to work in anything other than biglaw, or the law firm setting, and know that you want to work in LA, choose one those two. My cousin is an independent consultant who primarily negotiates screen rights with movie studios and he begins every meeting by talking about the USC football team. Chances are, in that town, that anyone high up in any industry has gone to either USC or UCLA and you can make that conversation work for you.

[Eugenie Danglars]

That's not true at all. For one thing Atlanta is the most popular market at UVA after NYC, DC, and California. Hell, the Southern states have increased in population such that the Census says they need more seats in the Senate. NY is losing a seat. Texas and the South are attracting a lot of people because of the weather, high number of jobs compared to the NE and California, and low COL. Duke just gets more northern students than UVA and their reputation is not as strong in the South as UVA's is.

Take this guy's advice with a grain of salt

More helpfully, Atlanta is a great city for young professionals if you don't mind crappy public transportation and the sketchy bits being really mixed in with the not sketchy bits.

[Reedie]

As a life time Los Angeles resident, I can assure you that USC carries the weight in this city. If you even suspect you ever want to work in anything other than biglaw, or the law firm setting, and know that you want to work in LA, choose one those two.

Remember, OP already went to UCLA undergrad. So he already has that working for him.

[FlightoftheEarls]

People on this board overestimate immediate returns on education. Yes, t14 will give you better immediate opportunities than either UCLA or USC, though I haven't seen any data to suggest that any school does better than UCLA in Los Angeles. As a life time Los Angeles resident, I can assure you that USC carries the weight in this city. If you even suspect you ever want to work in anything other than biglaw, or the law firm setting, and know that you want to work in LA, choose one those two. My cousin is an independent consultant who primarily negotiates screen rights with movie studios and he begins every meeting by talking about the USC football team. Chances are, in that town, that anyone high up in any industry has gone to either USC or UCLA and you can make that conversation work for you.

Then go to any T14 with decent California placement and look at our hiring data, specifically the proximity within any given class required for LA firms. Problem solved.

[RVP11]

though I haven't seen any data to suggest that any school does better than UCLA in Los Angeles.

I have.

[imbored25]

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[005618502]

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Tons of schools have this, USC football Fing blows so dont even bring that in here. They barely beat UVA this year, that was hillarous

[imbored25]

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[Fark-o-vision]

though I haven't seen any data to suggest that any school does better than UCLA in Los Angeles.

I have.

Where is it?

[General Tso]

I haven't been checking TLS very often given the holidays and all, but even I have seen the following threads started by NorCalBruin:

- Which law school should I attend if I want to work in Alaska?
- Should I take a full ride at McGeorge given my desire to take over dad's Redding practice?
- Should I attend these T20 schools given my desire to practice in LA?
- Some crap about a dual JD/Film School degree from Chapman

I mean, decide what you want to do in life dude. The decisions you make this year are going to affect your life forever.

[005618502]

I haven't been checking TLS very often given the holidays and all, but even I have seen the following threads started by NorCalBruin:

- Which law school should I attend if I want to work in Alaska?
- Should I take a full ride at McGeorge given my desire to take over dad's Redding practice?
- Should I attend these T20 schools given my desire to practice in LA?
- Some crap about a dual JD/Film School degree from Chapman

I mean, decide what you want to do in life dude. The decisions you make this year are going to affect your life forever.

Wow dude sounds like either 1.) an idiot 2.) screwing with us. Im guessing the latter

[Blindc1rca]

Thats because the south as a whole is not very attractive. The coasts is where its at. Or i guess Texas for some people

That's not true at all. For one thing Atlanta is the most popular market at UVA after NYC, DC, and California. Hell, the Southern states have increased in population such that the Census says they need more seats in the Senate. NY is losing a seat. Texas and the South are attracting a lot of people because of the weather, high number of jobs compared to the NE and California, and low COL. Duke just gets more northern students than UVA and their reputation is not as strong in the South as UVA's is.

....wow....
each state has 2 senate seats. period.