Top Law Schools

I'm a bit of a splitter when it comes to grades. My GPA is looking to be around 3.3-3.4, but I'm graciously hoping to bring my LSAT up to a 168-170.

Northwestern seems to be the only T14 I have a shot at since they are lenient about GPA. They have an amazing reputation and they are one of the best shots at BigLaw in the T14. However they almost 100% require that you have 2 years of work experience from what I've heard. I have none such experience.

Fordham is a great school, but it's not even Top 30 anymore. Only the cream of the crop have a shot at BigLaw, which is my goal, and it seems the market might just get worse by the time I graduate in 2014, pessimistic as it sounds.

So my options are, # 1, Apply RD to Fordham now and hope that somehow I end up being a natural and ace all my exams well ahead of the curve, or..

#2 Find a job (won't be easy, but there's always the JET Program) and work for 2 years, study for my LSAT even harder (IE Flunk it this December and cancel my score) then apply ED to Northwestern.

The 3rd option is work my @$$ off in school/LSATs right now and fire off some attempts at the schools in between NW and Fordham, if they are any good for BigLaw. I don't know, I've only done minimal research, and mostly on schools in NYC and the T14.

Also, I'm pretty much dead set on working in NYC, however it's apparent that just because Fordham is situated in NYC, it does not give you a much bigger chance at BigLaw, especially with the T14 being recruited nationally, and the job market looking increasingly abysmal. (Despite Fordham's "alumni network" which I know next to nothing about)

I'm sure there are other options I haven't considered, I'm not thinking clearly right now as I have to make a decision within the week and it's driving me to the point of depression.
Any advice is more than welcome.

rickynwhyc wrote:I'm a bit of a splitter when it comes to grades. My GPA is looking to be around 3.3-3.4, but I'm graciously hoping to bring my LSAT up to a 168-170.

Northwestern seems to be the only T14 I have a shot at since they are lenient about GPA.

3.3-3.4 170 puts you in range for UVA, Mich, NW, and Gtown

below 170 you really have no shot at any of them, including NW.

Desert Fox wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:I'm a bit of a splitter when it comes to grades. My GPA is looking to be around 3.3-3.4, but I'm graciously hoping to bring my LSAT up to a 168-170.

Northwestern seems to be the only T14 I have a shot at since they are lenient about GPA.

3.3-3.4 170 puts you in range for UVA, Mich, NW, and Gtown

below 170 you really have no shot at any of them, including NW.

You're probably right. By glancing at the statistics I see that people in the 166-169 range have been accepted before but usually in the upper GPAs and it seems to be a rare exception. I don't want to slave away for 2 years for a "tiny shot" at one of those schools. But Fordham might just pile me up a nice slab of debt with no job to show for it..

rickynwhyc wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:I'm a bit of a splitter when it comes to grades. My GPA is looking to be around 3.3-3.4, but I'm graciously hoping to bring my LSAT up to a 168-170.

Northwestern seems to be the only T14 I have a shot at since they are lenient about GPA.

3.3-3.4 170 puts you in range for UVA, Mich, NW, and Gtown

below 170 you really have no shot at any of them, including NW.

You're probably right. By glancing at the statistics I see that people in the 166-169 range have been accepted before but usually in the upper GPAs and it seems to be a rare exception. I don't want to slave away for 2 years for a "tiny shot" at one of those schools. But Fordham might just pile me up a nice slab of debt with no job to show for it..

2 years of work experience will help you with both a job search and admissions.

vamedic03 wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:I'm a bit of a splitter when it comes to grades. My GPA is looking to be around 3.3-3.4, but I'm graciously hoping to bring my LSAT up to a 168-170.

Northwestern seems to be the only T14 I have a shot at since they are lenient about GPA.

3.3-3.4 170 puts you in range for UVA, Mich, NW, and Gtown

below 170 you really have no shot at any of them, including NW.

You're probably right. By glancing at the statistics I see that people in the 166-169 range have been accepted before but usually in the upper GPAs and it seems to be a rare exception. I don't want to slave away for 2 years for a "tiny shot" at one of those schools. But Fordham might just pile me up a nice slab of debt with no job to show for it..

2 years of work experience will help you with both a job search and admissions.

That's definitely true. It's not a question of will it help, it's a question of two years being an insanely long time to put off what you REALLY want to do, and for most schools I don't think it's such a huge factor to the point where your LSAT and GPA still don't account for 90% of everything.

if you do not have around 2 years of work under your belt your scores AND interview will matter significantly. they offer admission to a very minimal number of individuals straight from UG. someone with a 3.8-4.0 and mid 170s could swing it though, those people usually go elsewhere. push for it you might have a shot.

You're out at NU with a 3.4/170 with on WE. However, if you can swing a 3.4/170, ED to UVa or Georgetown. The higher the LSAT the better (obviously).

czelede wrote:You're out at NU with a 3.4/170 with on WE. However, if you can swing a 3.4/170, ED to UVa or Georgetown. The higher the LSAT the better (obviously).

Yeah I thought as much about NU.

Chances of a 170 are not as high as I lead myself to believe. A 166-168 is more realistic. I hear the October LSAT was a killer. I'm taking it in December which is too late to ED.

rickynwhyc wrote:

czelede wrote:You're out at NU with a 3.4/170 with on WE. However, if you can swing a 3.4/170, ED to UVa or Georgetown. The higher the LSAT the better (obviously).

Yeah I thought as much about NU.

Chances of a 170 are not as high as I lead myself to believe. A 166-168 is more realistic. I hear the October LSAT was a killer. I'm taking it in December which is too late to ED.

All LSAT's are the same because they're curved - much like law school exams. To the extent that a test is 'more difficult' it has a correspondingly gentler curve.

vamedic03 wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:

czelede wrote:You're out at NU with a 3.4/170 with on WE. However, if you can swing a 3.4/170, ED to UVa or Georgetown. The higher the LSAT the better (obviously).

Yeah I thought as much about NU.

Chances of a 170 are not as high as I lead myself to believe. A 166-168 is more realistic. I hear the October LSAT was a killer. I'm taking it in December which is too late to ED.

All LSAT's are the same because they're curved - much like law school exams. To the extent that a test is 'more difficult' it has a correspondingly gentler curve.

While that maybe true, have they ever curved more than 2-3 Points? If a test is a bad draw for your skill set you're probably out of luck either way. A friend of mine was averaging 170s on practice tests, and he got a 155 this October. He's not an idiot, and he's not the kind of person who "cracks" under pressure.

Anyways I don't want to trail off the point of this thread, I still have no idea what to do, and I'm even considering abandoning my hopes of working in New York. It looks like there is a lot of BigLaw in Chicago/DC/Boston, which makes the decision even more multi-faceted and impossible.

Without work experience, your chances of admission to Northwestern (NU) are slim unless your LSAT is at least 172.

P.S. Since Nebraska (NU) is joining the Big Ten Conference, Northwestern may have to resort to using NW instead of NU to avoid confusion.

rickynwhyc wrote:

vamedic03 wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:

czelede wrote:You're out at NU with a 3.4/170 with on WE. However, if you can swing a 3.4/170, ED to UVa or Georgetown. The higher the LSAT the better (obviously).

Yeah I thought as much about NU.

Chances of a 170 are not as high as I lead myself to believe. A 166-168 is more realistic. I hear the October LSAT was a killer. I'm taking it in December which is too late to ED.

All LSAT's are the same because they're curved - much like law school exams. To the extent that a test is 'more difficult' it has a correspondingly gentler curve.

While that maybe true, have they ever curved more than 2-3 Points? If a test is a bad draw for your skill set you're probably out of luck either way. A friend of mine was averaging 170s on practice tests, and he got a 155 this October. He's not an idiot, and he's not the kind of person who "cracks" under pressure.

Anyways I don't want to trail off the point of this thread, I still have no idea what to do, and I'm even considering abandoning my hopes of working in New York. It looks like there is a lot of BigLaw in Chicago/DC/Boston, which makes the decision even more multi-faceted and impossible.

Yes he is the kind that cracks under pressure.

rickynwhyc wrote:A friend of mine was averaging 170s on practice tests, and he got a 155 this October. He's not an idiot, and he's not the kind of person who "cracks" under pressure.

Well, he obviously did something wrong.

Desert Fox wrote:
Yes he is the kind that cracks under pressure.

...or he's an idiot.

Mike12188 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:
Yes he is the kind that cracks under pressure.

...or he's an idiot.

Depends if those 170 PTs were timed accurately or not.

Desert Fox wrote:

Mike12188 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:
Yes he is the kind that cracks under pressure.

...or he's an idiot.

Depends if those 170 PTs were timed accurately or not.

exactly what I was getting at lol, I wonder if he knew you only get 35 mins per section

Mike12188 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Mike12188 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:
Yes he is the kind that cracks under pressure.

...or he's an idiot.

Depends if those 170 PTs were timed accurately or not.

exactly what I was getting at lol, I wonder if he knew you only get 35 mins per section

lol I don't know, I'm just going by what he tells me. It could have been anything really.

and Yeah I prefer referring to Northwestern as NWU, not NU. When you google NU, "National University" and "Niagra University" come up.

Does anyone think taking 2 years to gain work experience is WORTH going to NWU over Fordham? (Removing my original preference to work in NYC, I just want Big Law and to not live in a hick, desolate, redneck, quiet, boring, etc. town during LS and during my practice of the law)

Retake and apply next cycle, work in between. If you get your LSAT high enough you will have more options. I'm ED at Penn now I'll let you know how it goes for me in a month or so lol.

rickynwhyc wrote:
Does anyone think taking 2 years to gain work experience is WORTH going to NWU over Fordham? (Removing my original preference to work in NYC, I just want Big Law and to not live in a hick, desolate, redneck, quiet, boring, etc. town during LS and during my practice of the law)

I don't understand your reasoning. WORK EXPERIENCE IS ALWAYS VALUABLE! Even if you don't get into Northwestern post work experience, you'll do better at OCI wherever you end up.

rickynwhyc wrote:

Mike12188 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Mike12188 wrote:
...or he's an idiot.

Depends if those 170 PTs were timed accurately or not.

exactly what I was getting at lol, I wonder if he knew you only get 35 mins per section

lol I don't know, I'm just going by what he tells me. It could have been anything really.

and Yeah I prefer referring to Northwestern as NWU, not NU. When you google NU, "National University" and "Niagra University" come up.

Does anyone think taking 2 years to gain work experience is WORTH going to NWU over Fordham? (Removing my original preference to work in NYC, I just want Big Law and to not live in a hick, desolate, redneck, quiet, boring, etc. town during LS and during my practice of the law)

Yes. But in order to get Northwestern you need a 170. And at that point you could probably ED to Michigan or UVA and get in.

I think taking a few years off is worth it even if you don't gain a better shot.

Yes. But in order to get Northwestern you need a 170. And at that point you could probably ED to Michigan or UVA and get in.

I think taking a few years off is worth it even if you don't gain a better shot.

I don't understand your reasoning. WORK EXPERIENCE IS ALWAYS VALUABLE! Even if you don't get into Northwestern post work experience, you'll do better at OCI wherever you end up.

You're both definitely right

I'm a marketing major and to be honest the career market is looking less than hospitable however I could probably land a decent internship and move onto something entry level fairly quickly. But again, I want to practice Law, as much as I'm sure colleges "value diversity", a year, two years, that's a long time to be doing something you don't want to do.

I suppose I'm hanging into the grand hopes of clinics and whatnot providing me with all the experience I need to be hired by a firm. Is this unrealistic?

rickynwhyc wrote:

Yes. But in order to get Northwestern you need a 170. And at that point you could probably ED to Michigan or UVA and get in.

I think taking a few years off is worth it even if you don't gain a better shot.

I don't understand your reasoning. WORK EXPERIENCE IS ALWAYS VALUABLE! Even if you don't get into Northwestern post work experience, you'll do better at OCI wherever you end up.

You're both definitely right

I'm a marketing major and to be honest the career market is looking less than hospitable however I could probably land a decent internship and move onto something entry level fairly quickly. But again, I want to practice Law, as much as I'm sure colleges "value diversity", a year, two years, that's a long time to be doing something you don't want to do.

I suppose I'm hanging into the grand hopes of clinics and whatnot providing me with all the experience I need to be hired by a firm. Is this unrealistic?

Firm hiring begins at the beginning of 2L year. The earliest you can do a clinic (at least of the schools I know of) is 2L. So, you'll be going into OCI with 10 weeks of experience from a 1L summer job. Plenty of people do that and do fine, but, its advantageous to have work experience. Also, I've noticed that people who are a little older and have work experience seem to do better in school.

vamedic03 wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:

Yes. But in order to get Northwestern you need a 170. And at that point you could probably ED to Michigan or UVA and get in.

I think taking a few years off is worth it even if you don't gain a better shot.

I don't understand your reasoning. WORK EXPERIENCE IS ALWAYS VALUABLE! Even if you don't get into Northwestern post work experience, you'll do better at OCI wherever you end up.

You're both definitely right

I'm a marketing major and to be honest the career market is looking less than hospitable however I could probably land a decent internship and move onto something entry level fairly quickly. But again, I want to practice Law, as much as I'm sure colleges "value diversity", a year, two years, that's a long time to be doing something you don't want to do.

I suppose I'm hanging into the grand hopes of clinics and whatnot providing me with all the experience I need to be hired by a firm. Is this unrealistic?

Firm hiring begins at the beginning of 2L year. The earliest you can do a clinic (at least of the schools I know of) is 2L. So, you'll be going into OCI with 10 weeks of experience from a 1L summer job. Plenty of people do that and do fine, but, its advantageous to have work experience. Also, I've noticed that people who are a little older and have work experience seem to do better in school.

Thanks I had no idea hiring starts during your 2nd year, wow that seems odd to me..

I've considered the latter, but I'm not afraid, imo life's too short to defer what you really want to do. I've decided it's too early to rush into a decision. I'll wait till I get my December score and see where I'm at. I should really be prepping for the test right now

vamedic03 wrote:

rickynwhyc wrote:
Does anyone think taking 2 years to gain work experience is WORTH going to NWU over Fordham? (Removing my original preference to work in NYC, I just want Big Law and to not live in a hick, desolate, redneck, quiet, boring, etc. town during LS and during my practice of the law)

I don't understand your reasoning. WORK EXPERIENCE IS ALWAYS VALUABLE! Even if you don't get into Northwestern post work experience, you'll do better at OCI wherever you end up.

Damn, I stole your avatar.