Top Law Schools

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tomcox10 wrote:I've been reading on TLS, and it seems that the general consensus is that law is no gauranteed thing for you unless you go to a T14 school. With my numbers (167, 3.86), I fall right into the 15-20 range.

So now my question:

Is the disparity so great that I should choose to attend a lower end T14 school (say Cornell) at sticker versus Vanderbilt with a little bit of money (say 12,000 a year). By the way, I am fairly poor and would be taking on a full load of debt at any school I go to without a scholarship.

Berkeley.

Or retake and go to Stanford.

Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

tomcox10 wrote:I've been reading on TLS, and it seems that the general consensus is that law is no gauranteed thing for you unless you go to a T14 school. With my numbers (167, 3.86), I fall right into the 15-20 range.

So now my question:

Is the disparity so great that I should choose to attend a lower end T14 school (say Cornell) at sticker versus Vanderbilt with a little bit of money (say 12,000 a year). By the way, I am fairly poor and would be taking on a full load of debt at any school I go to without a scholarship.

play around with LSN and that will help inform your decision. secondly, definitely at least apply to T-14 (-HYS [columbia and chicago are up to you]).
The answer after that really is: it depends. do you intend on taking a big law job and making a lot of money after you graduate? If you do, then the debt, although scary right now, really isn't a big deal. Lots of people pay back their debt quickly this way. If you want to do PI law, then look for a law school that has PI law payback plans: some schools' plans are significantly better than others. Btw. bottom T-14 and Vanderbilt, you need to decide where you feel most comfortable and who offers the type of law expertise you are looking for. Money shouldn't make a big difference if you're going big law, esp. if it's only a 12 grand difference.

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

Wait, why would you assume this?



Oh and OP, you should totally ED to UVA

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

Right, but this is exactly what the OP is asking. That is, would it be better to take MVPBD at sticker (probably with ED) or Vandy with a partial scholarship? I'm also interested in the reasoning here- particularly by those who've had to make a similar decision.

D. H2Oman wrote:

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

Wait, why would you assume this?

For many people, LSDAS tends to provide a nice little bump given the undergraduate school that they attended. For example, I received quite a few A+'s in undergrad. For GPA purposes, A+'s were no different than A's. LSDAS converted my actual 3.90 undergraduate GPA to a 4.01 for law school application/reporting purposes.

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/?page_id=45

beachbum wrote:

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

Right, but this is exactly what the OP is asking. That is, would it be better to take MVPBD at sticker (probably with ED) or Vandy with a partial scholarship? I'm also interested in the reasoning here- particularly by those who've had to make a similar decision.

My take. Absolutely. However, the one thing that does help Vanderbilt is small-class size. NLJ reports that NU's biglaw placement was 55% while Vandy was pretty close behind at 47%.

beachbum wrote:

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

Right, but this is exactly what the OP is asking. That is, would it be better to take MVPBD at sticker (probably with ED) or Vandy with a partial scholarship? I'm also interested in the reasoning here- particularly by those who've had to make a similar decision.

Depends on a lot of things. Amount of money, goals, etc. The way law school funding is set up now if you want Public interest, you should pretty much always go to the best school you can get into. If you want to work in private practice, you should pay more attention to the debt you're taking on. I know that's counterintuitive.

I am a finance/accounting major so going into BigLaw and specializing in corporate law looks attactive to me right now. Vanderbilt, Duke, and Virginia have an advantage in being the southeast because I would prefer to stay in this area although I'm not against moving off to New York or Chicago.

Right now with my stats and decent softs, I'm setting realistic expectations to get denied at Berkeley, waitlisted at Duke and Virginia, get accepted at UCLA and Cornell, and get accepted at Vanderbilt and Texas possibly with money. I'm also applying to UGA(my undergraduate), but I'm only allowing a 2% chance that I actually decide to stay here.

tomcox10 wrote:I've been reading on TLS, and it seems that the general consensus is that law is no gauranteed thing for you unless you go to a T14 school. With my numbers (167, 3.86), I fall right into the 15-20 range.

So now my question:

Is the disparity so great that I should choose to attend a lower end T14 school (say Cornell) at sticker versus Vanderbilt with a little bit of money (say 12,000 a year). By the way, I am fairly poor and would be taking on a full load of debt at any school I go to without a scholarship.

What disparity? I agree with above posters; at that point, find your best fit. There doesn't appear to be a trade-off (career wise) for choosing Vandy over a lower t-14. Oddly enough, even though Cornell is probably easier to get into than Vandy, you're more likely to get serious money at Vandy. Last year several candidates with numbers similar to yours--think 167 3.9--got $72k from Vandy.

Disparity, as in, the world is going to end if you don't go to T14. I was just curious if the jump from 15-20 to T14 is actually that big of a jump.

T-14 isn't really a meaningful distinction. If you're trying to conceptualize law schools in terms of the opportunities each will provide, then consider them in broad tiers. The caliber of a school is not as static the U.S. Weekly New's rankings. I.e., #10 is not better than #11, et cetera. As a particular example, you asked about the differences between Vandy and Cornell; since advanced search is down, here some relevant threads:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=119149
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=25

s0ph1e2007 wrote:

tomcox10 wrote:I've been reading on TLS, and it seems that the general consensus is that law is no gauranteed thing for you unless you go to a T14 school. With my numbers (167, 3.86), I fall right into the 15-20 range.

So now my question:

Is the disparity so great that I should choose to attend a lower end T14 school (say Cornell) at sticker versus Vanderbilt with a little bit of money (say 12,000 a year). By the way, I am fairly poor and would be taking on a full load of debt at any school I go to without a scholarship.

play around with LSN and that will help inform your decision. secondly, definitely at least apply to T-14 (-HYS [columbia and chicago are up to you]).
The answer after that really is: it depends. do you intend on taking a big law job and making a lot of money after you graduate? If you do, then the debt, although scary right now, really isn't a big deal. Lots of people pay back their debt quickly this way. If you want to do PI law, then look for a law school that has PI law payback plans: some schools' plans are significantly better than others. Btw. bottom T-14 and Vanderbilt, you need to decide where you feel most comfortable and who offers the type of law expertise you are looking for. Money shouldn't make a big difference if you're going big law, esp. if it's only a 12 grand difference.

You can't be fucking serious. Jesus Christ.

Rawlsian wrote:T-14 isn't really a meaningful distinction. If you're trying to conceptualize law schools in terms of the opportunities each will provide, then consider them in broad tiers. The caliber of a school is not as static the U.S. Weekly New's rankings. I.e., #10 is not better than #11, et cetera. As a particular example, you asked about the differences between Vandy and Cornell; since advanced search is down, here some relevant threads:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=119149
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=25

This is generally true. For example, I would say that Cornell isn't much better than Vandy, but NYU >>> Boalt.

tomcox10 wrote:Disparity, as in, the world is going to end if you don't go to T14. I was just curious if the jump from 15-20 to T14 is actually that big of a jump.

Lower T14 is pretty similar to 15-18, depending on what region you want to be in. T20 however isn't a meaningful distinction.

If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.

Overall, I would think about the fit. And Other 25 is right about Cornell, especially if you are accepted early in the process. Note: while this may be true about Vandy and the bottom of the T-14 (and I would argue the middle -- Michigan for example), I would not go too much lower than Vandy and expect similar options from the bottom T-14 (USC, for example). The class size distinction is also a good one. For example, I may consider Vandy over Georgetown before I would consider Vandy over Duke. I moved a few spots down the t-14 for much more $, and I would not have considered moving out of the t-14 to be a completely horrible thing had the $ been right at Vandy.

Other25BeforeYou wrote:If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.

If you want to work in the South and not NY, I'd take Vandy, however.

rad law wrote:

Other25BeforeYou wrote:If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.

If you want to work in the South and not NY, I'd take Vandy, however.

Ah, yes, I totally missed that. Vandy all the way for working in the SE.

I chose Duke over Vanderbilt last cycle. Money was sort of a factor, but the difference in scholarship offer was only 9K over three years. I'm a native southerner and intend on practicing in the region after graduation. The cost was relatively equal between schools, but Duke just felt like it was the right place to be. My advice would be to visit and use that to decide unless the cost differential is really, really substantial (read as: 30K or more total). I was skeptical of the whole "the visit can seal it for you" idea, but after visiting many, many law school visiting days and campus tours, Duke's whole weekend blew me away. My main focus was considering the factors about the school and surrounding area that would give me an enjoyable and familiar quality of life and standard of living. If I was comfortable about the "feel" of the school and the area, then I'll likely be happier and more motivated. Beyond the obvious benefit of actually enjoying my life/law school experience, I reasoned that these things could lead to better academic performance. I must say that I've loved Duke so far, love living in the triangle, and 1L has been a really rigorous but enjoyable experience (but I may not say this during finals, lol). This has so much to do with the people at the school and my living environment, and I'm grateful that I was able to suppress my obsessive scrutinizing about job prospects between schools ranked so close and focus on these other factors. I'm sure that many on TLS will consider this advice vapid and wishy-washy, but I think it's really important and often overlooked. If you're picking between Vanderbilt and a T14, you probably can't make a "wrong" choice (unless its HYSCC), especially if Vandy is less expensive.

thickfreakness wrote:I chose Duke over Vanderbilt last cycle. Money was sort of a factor, but the difference in scholarship offer was only 9K over three years. I'm a native southerner and intend on practicing in the region after graduation. The cost was relatively equal between schools, but Duke just felt like it was the right place to be. My advice would be to visit and use that to decide unless the cost differential is really, really substantial (read as: 30K or more total). I was skeptical of the whole "the visit can seal it for you" idea, but after visiting many, many law school visiting days and campus tours, Duke's whole weekend blew me away. My main focus was considering the factors about the school and surrounding area that would give me an enjoyable and familiar quality of life and standard of living. If I was comfortable about the "feel" of the school and the area, then I'll likely be happier and more motivated. Beyond the obvious benefit of actually enjoying my life/law school experience, I reasoned that these things could lead to better academic performance. I must say that I've loved Duke so far, love living in the triangle, and 1L has been a really rigorous but enjoyable experience (but I may not say this during finals, lol). This has so much to do with the people at the school and my living environment, and I'm grateful that I was able to suppress my obsessive scrutinizing about job prospects between schools ranked so close and focus on these other factors. I'm sure that many on TLS will consider this advice vapid and wishy-washy, but I think it's really important and often overlooked. If you're picking between Vanderbilt and a T14, you probably can't make a "wrong" choice (unless its HYSCC), especially if Vandy is less expensive.

Can you elaborate a bit more on why specifically you chose Duke over Vandy? Atmosphere, student body, location? I'm not sure I'll be able to make it out to either of these schools before submitting apps/possibly EDing to Duke, so any experiences and insight you can share would be extremely helpful. Thanks a lot.

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

Hey kids! Which one of the above is not like the others?

Veyron wrote:

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.

Hey kids! Which one of the above is not like the others?

What is Duke!

lawschoollll wrote:

s0ph1e2007 wrote:

tomcox10 wrote:I've been reading on TLS, and it seems that the general consensus is that law is no gauranteed thing for you unless you go to a T14 school. With my numbers (167, 3.86), I fall right into the 15-20 range.

So now my question:

Is the disparity so great that I should choose to attend a lower end T14 school (say Cornell) at sticker versus Vanderbilt with a little bit of money (say 12,000 a year). By the way, I am fairly poor and would be taking on a full load of debt at any school I go to without a scholarship.

play around with LSN and that will help inform your decision. secondly, definitely at least apply to T-14 (-HYS [columbia and chicago are up to you]).
The answer after that really is: it depends. do you intend on taking a big law job and making a lot of money after you graduate? If you do, then the debt, although scary right now, really isn't a big deal. Lots of people pay back their debt quickly this way. If you want to do PI law, then look for a law school that has PI law payback plans: some schools' plans are significantly better than others. Btw. bottom T-14 and Vanderbilt, you need to decide where you feel most comfortable and who offers the type of law expertise you are looking for. Money shouldn't make a big difference if you're going big law, esp. if it's only a 12 grand difference.

You can't be fucking serious. Jesus Christ.

If you havent learned by now this girl (sophie2007) often posts completly useless information that comes from some small little world she made up in her head. Please do not take this previous post as serious.

If you plan on TAKING a big law job and MAKING A LOT of money after you graduate..... uh yeah sign me up too! most rediculous post.... ever