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I need some opinions to the following situation:

University of Texas with approximately $80,000 in scholarship and/or grant money for the class of 2013

or

University of Michigan at in-state sticker (not a major difference) for the class of 2014

I have a good legal related job for the year in between if I do decide to take a year off. Additionally, I am unsure of where I want to work and have never been to Texas but for two days.

Bentley7 wrote:I need some opinions to the following situation:

University of Texas with approximately $80,000 in scholarship and/or grant money for the class of 2013

or

University of Michigan at in-state sticker (not a major difference) for the class of 2014

I have a good legal related job for the year in between if I do decide to take a year off. Additionally, I am unsure of where I want to work and have never been to Texas but for two days.

Michigan in my opinion. That extra year if you're coming straight out of UG might not be a bad thing at all. Save some cash, get a little real world experience, and take a break from school. Michigan is a couple of tiers above Texas, worth passing up $80k. I think it would be tougher if we were discussing closer to a full ride, although a half-ride is pretty tempting.

If you want to work in Texas, this is a no-brainer.

In your situation this is a lot more difficult. Obviously, Michigan will give you a lot more flexibility, but at a much greater cost. Idk, the fact that you've been to Texas for two days and don't know where you want to work makes this a pretty tough decision.

I'd go with Michigan for the reasons everyone else has stated. But if you really don't want to wait a year to get started on this law school think, Texas is an excellent option. I think a lot of Texas being good for Texas is largely self-selection, and if nothing else, would give you excellent fall-back options should prospects in another market not pan out. Good luck!

The best part about Texas is that it's not in Michigan.

That being said, Michigan does have a better rep and a higher ranking, and more national reach. Maybe the education is even better. I might be tempted by a scholly to UT, but I'm from Texas. If you want to work in Texas, go there. If you want to work anywhere else, wait and go to Mich.

TCScrutinizer wrote:The best part about Texas is that it's not in Michigan.

I'm going to say outside of their respective cities, the states both these schools are in suck.

byunbee wrote:

TCScrutinizer wrote:The best part about Texas is that it's not in Michigan.

I'm going to say outside of their respective cities, the states both these schools are in suck.

I've never been to Michigan. All I know is that most of the people I've met from Michigan really, really suck. And it's cold in winter. Last December in Austin we had a week where it was in the 80's.

I did like hiking in the UP, though.

Thank you for your guys input. At this point, I am also leaning toward Michigan because of the following:

-I am not sure that I want to work in Texas and/or that I will like living there
-Michigan is the higher ranked school with more prestige
-Because I do not know where I want to work it seems as though Michigan has more national reach
-Michigan's Loan Repayment Program seems better

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated as this is certainly one of the toughest decisions I have ever came across in my life

Another point that I would like to add is that I want to work in Big Law.

Michigan is definitely a better school and it sounds like you'd prefer Ann Arbor over Austin...and if you have a good job at the moment it offsets the opportunity cost of waiting another year

To be honest, I think I would be much happier in Austin than in Ann Arbor. From everything I have read and from talking to people, Austin is different than Texas as a whole and is one of the coolest cities in America. I have lived in Ann Arbor before and am impartial toward it.

Knockglock wrote: Michigan is a couple of tiers above Texas, worth passing up $80k. I think it would be tougher if we were discussing closer to a full ride, although a half-ride is pretty tempting.

A couple of tiers? Come on, man. We're talking about two schools that are respected very highly nationally. Texas is #15; Michigan is #9. We're not talking about taking Cooley on scholly, or UVA at sticker here. The two schools are pretty closely ranked. The magical separation on t14 may not be worth almost $100k. You'd be able to land a job outside of Texas from UT-Austin, if you performed well in law school. You just might have to rely on your on networking a bit more.

Ann Arbor is a cool town, but so is Austin. I vote take the money at Austin if the gpa requirement isn't particularly restrictive.

Have you been on campus visits? It would be worth visiting each campus and making a gut decision from everything you see. I wouldn't attend any school without a chance to walk around their campus.

mirdamad wrote:To be honest, I think I would be much happier in Austin than in Ann Arbor. From everything I have read and from talking to people, Austin is different than Texas as a whole and is one of the coolest cities in America. I have lived in Ann Arbor before and am impartial toward it.

Also, this. While I do like Ann Arbor, I've never met anybody who is from, or has been through Austin, who hasn't gushed about how great the city is.

I have visited both campuses and definitely like the University of Texas's campus as a whole much better. The question in my mind is being more happy for three years in Austin and $80,000 worth the differences in employment prospects between the two schools.

mirdamad wrote:I have visited both campuses and definitely like the University of Texas's campus as a whole much better. The question in my mind is being more happy for three years in Austin and $80,000 worth the differences in employment prospects between the two schools.

A lot is made of the t14 separation. While lawyers are prestige whores, I think too much is made of this separation sometimes. UT-Austin is the big fish in a pretty big pond. I imagine UT-Austin's employment prospects in the state are very strong, and with networking with alums, you'll find a very national presence.

Also, in argument for avoiding $80k in debt - really, think about this more as >$100k, because by the time you pay it off with interest, it will be significantly above that. It provides you the flexibility to take a lot more jobs that you may be more interested in three years. Live you life like economists work game theory - maximizing your options for as long as possible. Without having to worry about insane tuition repayment, your options are open beyond big law.

Look, it is really easy

Michigan is about 6 places higher than Texas. Now if you were to add six to michigan you would be at harvard. So would you go to michigan over harvard for $80,000? If the answer is yes then you get 10 points, if the answer is no, pick a number between 16 and 19. Now, what is your gut decision. If it is UT add five points to you score, if UM add 8. Now, which city would you prefer. Ann Arbor 15pts. Austin 12pts.
Not subtract your age from your total and add the last number in your date of birth.
If the final number is even go to UT.
If it is odd, pick between UT and UM, but pick UM.

Hahahaha. Thank you for that...I think I am confused more now.

sophia.olive wrote:Look, it is really easy

Michigan is about 6 places higher than Texas. Now if you were to add six to michigan you would be at harvard. So would you go to michigan over harvard for $80,000? If the answer is yes then you get 10 points, if the answer is no, pick a number between 16 and 19. Now, what is your gut decision. If it is UT add five points to you score, if UM add 8. Now, which city would you prefer. Ann Arbor 15pts. Austin 12pts.
Not subtract your age from your total and add the last number in your date of birth.
If the final number is even go to UT.
If it is odd, pick between UT and UM, but pick UM.

The only real question you have to ask yourself is do you like the cold better or the heat better? Both are in cities where there's stuff to do. Both are highly respected law schools. Texas has a slightly larger class size but both produce a large number of alumni each year so if you don't find a place to work nationally it's not going to be because of the school's name. I personally would probably take the year off to save up some cash... btw I spent a few years in Texas and there is quite a bit to do outside of Austin unlike some previous posters have said...

Bentley7 wrote:Another point that I would like to add is that I want to work in Big Law.

Michigan has far better BigLaw placement than UT. Keep that in mind.

Bildungsroman wrote:

Bentley7 wrote:Another point that I would like to add is that I want to work in Big Law.

Michigan has far better BigLaw placement than UT. Keep that in mind.

Not that I disagree, but what stats are you referencing?

Michigan....unless you want to work in Texas the choice is obvious.

TommyK wrote:

Bildungsroman wrote:

Bentley7 wrote:Another point that I would like to add is that I want to work in Big Law.

Michigan has far better BigLaw placement than UT. Keep that in mind.

Not that I disagree, but what stats are you referencing?

These are stats that don't fully take ITE into consideration, but:

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

Michigan sent 51% to NLJ 250 firms, Texas sent 36.6%.

Also, the better-ranked a school is, the more insulated it is from the legal market bust in terms of biglaw placement, so I wouldn't have trouble believing that the difference between the two schools will be more severe when new numbers come out (that part is just speculation, though).

mirdamad wrote:Austin is different than Texas as a whole and is one of the coolest cities in America.

No, it's not. It's just like any other shitty college town, and you realize that after living there for a little while. You get all the shitty parts of Texas without anything that you might be able to call nice.

sophia.olive wrote:Look, it is really easy

Michigan is about 6 places higher than Texas. Now if you were to add six to michigan you would be at harvard. So would you go to michigan over harvard for $80,000? If the answer is yes then you get 10 points, if the answer is no, pick a number between 16 and 19. Now, what is your gut decision. If it is UT add five points to you score, if UM add 8. Now, which city would you prefer. Ann Arbor 15pts. Austin 12pts.
Not subtract your age from your total and add the last number in your date of birth.
If the final number is even go to UT.
If it is odd, pick between UT and UM, but pick UM.

i was getting pretty heated after the first couple sentences, then i got to the end and was like

--ImageRemoved--

i spoke with a V100 partner outside of texas when i was trying to choose a law school. he had a slight preference for the higher ranked school in general, but he said that the main problem with UT grads is not the caliber of the school, but that firms don't really think you're going to leave the state, especially if you've lived here for a long time. if you haven't then that shouldn't be an issue, and the only problem is that you'll have to do more of your own individual work to find a job. there were plenty of non-texas firms at OCI, but certainly they were outnumbered.

i also spoke with a V100 partner from texas that wanted me to pick the higher ranked school, but i think a lot of it was because he went to school in the area and loved living there. the consensus with everybody i spoke to was that T15 are all highly regarded by big law firms.

i also spoke with a UT prof that told me, unless you get into YHS territory, you're not closing any doors by choosing texas as long as you perform well.

i also spoke with a number of good lawyers that preferred texas or had no preference at all with respect to parts of the T14, but i think TLS would be more critical of those (smaller firms, texas alums, etc).

Thank you everybody for the information thus far. Just wanted to see if anybody else had any insight to the situation?