Top Law Schools

Want to end up working in Chicago and I don't mind Ann Arbor.
Thanks for your input!

clint4law wrote:Want to end up working in Chicago and I don't mind Ann Arbor.
Thanks for your input!

Any other specifics on preferences? It's really your personal choice, they're basically peer schools. I'd personally take Michigan, but there's no wrong answer here. Visit both and see which you get a better vibe from.

Do you live in Michigan? Because obviously "sticker" at Michigan, in-state, is going to be substantially cheaper than sticker at Northwestern.

Michigan's COA is cheaper by about 18k over 3 years, so I would go with Michigan if you have no other preference.

MJMD wrote:Do you live in Michigan? Because obviously "sticker" at Michigan, in-state, is going to be substantially cheaper than sticker at Northwestern.

Michigan Residents
$44,600

Michigan Nonresidents
$47,600

Northwestern
$49,444

Dude, no question. Enjoy Michigan.

MJMD wrote:Do you live in Michigan? Because obviously "sticker" at Michigan, in-state, is going to be substantially cheaper than sticker at Northwestern.

i actually live 2 mins from the NU campus in Chicago.

The schools have very different feels. Michigan is big/young./small-town, NU is smaller/old/big-city. If you're already in Chicago it might be worth considering that not having to move your ass to Ann Arbor would be a big plus.

i chose michigan in the poll but i did so on subjective factors..sorry about that.

the subjective factors being:

im young, NU is old.
im a small town guy, NU is in a huge city


That being said, you can't go wrong. they're essentially equal otherwise IMunqualifiedO.

clint4law wrote:I actually live 2 mins from the NU campus in Chicago.

If you're comfortable with your current living arrangements, and you really are that close to NU Law (and I do assume that you're talking about the Law campus, downtown, rather than the undergraduate campus in Evanston), then I would say Northwestern for the win. You're not a Michigan resident, obviously, so we're talking about a difference of only a few thousand dollars, which will be entirely consumed (many times over) by the cost of moving, not to mention the additional burden of mental stress and anxiety that the moving process entails. You can really do without that in your first year of law school. And you're already used to Chicago, so why risk moving to Ann Arbor, hating it, and being miserable?

I'm going to vote for NU now, and I suspect that when I look at your poll Michigan will be way out in front, but you should really ignore that since you didn't provide people with any of this important context. The ranking difference between the two schools is not nearly enough to justify the cost and hassle of switching states and uprooting your whole life. Don't let yourself be influenced by the votes of irresponsible idiots like allidoiswin.

MJMD wrote:

clint4law wrote:I actually live 2 mins from the NU campus in Chicago.

If you're comfortable with your current living arrangements, and you really are that close to NU Law (and I do assume that you're talking about the Law campus, downtown, rather than the undergraduate campus in Evanston), then I would say Northwestern for the win. You're not a Michigan resident, obviously, so we're talking about a difference of only a few thousand dollars, which will be entirely consumed (many times over) by the cost of moving, not to mention the additional burden of mental stress and anxiety that the moving process entails. You can really do without that in your first year of law school. And you're already used to Chicago, so why risk moving to Ann Arbor, hating it, and being miserable?

I'm going to vote for NU now, and I suspect that when I look at your poll Michigan will be way out in front, but you should really ignore that since you didn't provide people with any of this important context. The ranking difference between the two schools is not nearly enough to justify the cost and hassle of switching states and uprooting your whole life. Don't let yourself be influenced by the votes of irresponsible idiots like allidoiswin.

this is true...but I currently pay $1,400 in rent and the difference in the costs of living are huge. I'm not too concerned about the monetary issues....my primary focus is which school will open more doors for me in Chicago in 2014, Michigan or NU.

I think both schools will open many doors in Chicago: if anything, I'd have to guess that Northwestern would be better for Chicago.

MJMD wrote:I think both schools will open many doors in Chicago: if anything, I'd have to guess that Northwestern would be better for Chicago.

No.

Go to Michigan.

As a UG Wolverine, I can vouch for Ann Arbor. You won't hate it.

Absent a specific preference for remaining in Chicago, I don't really see the dilemma here. Michigan is cheaper and historically a better school.

In short, move to Ann Arbor and enjoy the gorgeous campus + Dean Z's company.

dresden doll wrote:

MJMD wrote:I think both schools will open many doors in Chicago: if anything, I'd have to guess that Northwestern would be better for Chicago.

No.

Go to Michigan.

I've seen data from both schools, and I'd bet $5 that NU is slightly better for Chicago.

In any case, the placement differences are so minor that you should really be deciding based on which school you like better.

rayiner wrote:

dresden doll wrote:

MJMD wrote:I think both schools will open many doors in Chicago: if anything, I'd have to guess that Northwestern would be better for Chicago.

No.

Go to Michigan.

I've seen data from both schools, and I'd bet $5 that NU is slightly better for Chicago.

The slight edge is entirely explained away by self selection. Michigan kids tend to want CA and NYC more so than their NU counterparts.

dresden doll wrote:

rayiner wrote:

dresden doll wrote:

MJMD wrote:I think both schools will open many doors in Chicago: if anything, I'd have to guess that Northwestern would be better for Chicago.

No.

Go to Michigan.

I've seen data from both schools, and I'd bet $5 that NU is slightly better for Chicago.

The slight edge is entirely explained away by self selection. Michigan kids tend to want CA and NYC more so than their NU counterparts.

I'm talking about GPA data. Like I said, it's not a big difference, but a few firms in Chicago really like NU. On the whole I'd give Michigan the nod for its strength in NYC and DC, but in Chicago NU is really a bit ahead.

dresden doll wrote:

rayiner wrote:

dresden doll wrote:

MJMD wrote:I think both schools will open many doors in Chicago: if anything, I'd have to guess that Northwestern would be better for Chicago.

No.

Go to Michigan.

I've seen data from both schools, and I'd bet $5 that NU is slightly better for Chicago.

The slight edge is entirely explained away by self selection. Michigan kids tend to want CA and NYC more so than their NU counterparts.

Even if you concede that "slight edge" in Chicago, all other things are not equal. Michigan is a better school in almost all respects. NU is a top law school no doubt, but I would feel 10 times more confident coming out of Michigan looking for a job in Chicago than NU.

rayiner wrote:
I'm talking about GPA data.

I'm not sure how comparable those two sets of data are. NU's curve is notably more generous than Michigan's.

dresden doll wrote:

rayiner wrote:
I'm talking about GPA data.

I'm not sure how comparable those two sets of data are. NU's curve is notably more generous than Michigan's.

Right. So when a firm has similar callback GPAs at NU and Michigan, that suggests they tend to prefer NU students.

Even if you concede that "slight edge" in Chicago, all other things are not equal. Michigan is a better school in almost all respects. NU is a top law school no doubt, but I would feel 10 times more confident coming out of Michigan looking for a job in Chicago than NU.

What respects? Take clerkship placement. The two have extremely similar clerkship placement: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... news-.html

Biglaw? Again extremely similar between the schools, with Michigan's biggest advantage being that it gets a lot of firms outside the V50 that don't come to NU's OCI, an advantage that's somewhat mitigated by the fact that it needs those extra employers because it has a much larger class.

All of the objective data I have suggests that Michigan is extremely similar to NU (and the weakest out of MVP). Penn's smaller class and pipeline into NYC V50 firms and UVA's popular preselect OCI and dominance of DC seem to do a lot more for placement than Michigan's historic prestige.

dresden doll wrote:

rayiner wrote:
I'm talking about GPA data.

I'm not sure how comparable those two sets of data are. NU's curve is notably more generous than Michigan's.

If the curve is more generous, that's probably a good thing, especially if the OP ends up higher on the curve at NU than he would have done at Michigan, by redirecting time and energy that would otherwise have been wasted in moving into a new apartment and acclimating to a new city. Class rank at either of these schools is far more significant than the choice between them, and I think that the OPs odds of attaining a higher class rank are better at NU when all other considerations are taken into account.

rayiner wrote:

dresden doll wrote:

rayiner wrote:
I'm talking about GPA data.

I'm not sure how comparable those two sets of data are. NU's curve is notably more generous than Michigan's.

Right. So when a firm has similar callback GPAs at NU and Michigan, that suggests they tend to prefer NU students.

Even if you concede that "slight edge" in Chicago, all other things are not equal. Michigan is a better school in almost all respects. NU is a top law school no doubt, but I would feel 10 times more confident coming out of Michigan looking for a job in Chicago than NU.

What respects? Take clerkship placement. The two have extremely similar clerkship placement: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... news-.html

Biglaw? Again extremely similar between the schools, with Michigan's biggest advantage being that it gets a lot of firms outside the V50 that don't come to NU's OCI, an advantage that's somewhat mitigated by the fact that it needs those extra employers because it has a much larger class.

All of the objective data I have suggests that Michigan is extremely similar to NU (and the weakest out of MVP). Penn's smaller class and pipeline into NYC V50 firms and UVA's popular preselect OCI and dominance of DC seem to do a lot more for placement than Michigan's historic prestige.

I guess I was too broad. You have the numbers right for sure, and I can't argue with that. I just feel like the general consensus is that Mich >> NU. It's just my thought. If you're choosing between the two and you want to work in Chi you can't go wrong, but I feel like my education and experience at Mich would be better. That's just me.

megaTTTron wrote:I guess I was too broad. You have the numbers right for sure, and I can't argue with that. I just feel like the general consensus is that Mich >> NU. It's just my thought. If you're choosing between the two and you want to work in Chi you can't go wrong, but I feel like my education and experience at Mich would be better. That's just me.

Your experience may be better at Michigan depending on your tastes, not going to argue that. Michigan and NU are very different schools after all. However, in terms of concrete metrics MVPDN are more similar than they are dissimilar. Based on the data I have available, the real next step up is at Columbia/Chicago/NYU*.

*) I know Dres doesn't want to hear that, but U Chi really is >> than her beloved Mich.

Stop failing, TLS. Everyone knows Michigan is a mini-tier above Northwestern.