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M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:15 pm
by phoenixwright83
Which school has to best reputation/best opportunities for students who want their careers to be in corporate law?
Michigan, Virginia and Penn are very strong schools but I do not know which one has a stronger program for those students who are interested in corporate law (mergers and acquisitions / investment banking to be specific). I do not care about where I end up and I believe all three have about the same national prospects.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:18 pm
by nealric
They are all about the same. Perhaps a slight edge to P for NYC proximity. Other than that, just go to the school that appeals to you most in terms of location and culture.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:18 pm
by como
phoenixwright83 wrote:Which school has to best reputation/best opportunities for students who want their careers to be in corporate law?
Michigan, Virginia and Penn are very strong schools but I do not know which one has a stronger program for those students who are interested in corporate law (mergers and acquisitions / investment banking to be specific). I do not care about where I end up and I believe all three have about the same national prospects.
I would say Penn, because you will have better access to bigger job markets. Penn is probably slightly better at landing NY, VA significantly better at DC, and Michigan slightly better at Chicago. Penn will put you in better shape in NYC, and you can always "fall back" on Philly. Go to Penn.
I should add, it would help to be so close to NYC too.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:18 pm
by 1Levening2013
the one where you graduate with the best grades
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:19 pm
by TheBigMediocre
Somewhat unrelated, but how hard is it to backdoor into Wharton MBA from Penn Law if you whoop ass your first year?
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:21 pm
by vanwinkle
These schools are roughly peer schools in corporate law placement. They're so similar that you should base which you attend on other factors (school atmosphere/location, scholarship $$, and so forth). Don't go looking for a huge difference between them in this regard, because it's simply not there.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:23 pm
by Aberzombie1892
While they all are pretty much the same, it depends on which market you want to work in.
However, you said you don't care. Very few people truly don't care.
As you have already stated, they are all national. But legal hiring is not back to what it used to be (and it may never be).
If you want:
East coast = UVA
Midwest = Michigan
Northeast = Penn
While it's not this simple, when not taking into accounting personal preferences and scholarships, it is. These schools will give you the best prospects they have to offer in their home regions (generally). As a result, if your 1L grades were lower (probably under a 3.25 for these schools), you would most likely have your best chances at "corporate law" in the home region of the school.
Keep that in mind.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:30 pm
by como
Aberzombie1892 wrote:As a result, if your 1L grades were lower (probably under a 3.25 for these schools), you would most likely have your best chances at "corporate law" in the home region of the school.
Keep that in mind.
Precisely. This is why I would argue Penn is the place to go. Penn has an equal to better shot at NYC biglaw and pick of the litter in Philly, a large regional market.
VA is competing big time with other top schools at DC, placing well in NYC, but not better than Penn.
Michigan is second-fiddle in Chicago, and wouldn't be an edge on Penn in NYC.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:55 pm
by nedberg
como wrote:Aberzombie1892 wrote:As a result, if your 1L grades were lower (probably under a 3.25 for these schools), you would most likely have your best chances at "corporate law" in the home region of the school.
Keep that in mind.
Precisely. This is why I would argue Penn is the place to go. Penn has an equal to better shot at NYC biglaw and pick of the litter in Philly, a large regional market.
VA is competing big time with other top schools at DC, placing well in NYC, but not better than Penn.
Michigan is second-fiddle in Chicago, and wouldn't be an edge on Penn in NYC.
So says the guy at NY's third fiddle. Just kidding, but I think you're overestimating the poor economy's impact on the importance of geographic location with respect to these three schools. The main takeaway is that the difference in corporate law hiring (I'm assuming you mean NY) is negligible for MVP. The only relevance geography has in this situation is where you want to spend the next three years, not where you want to end up, as these schools give you equal shots at NY corporate law.
That being said, it would be pretty tight to take a few classes at Wharton, though it won't help in terms of getting hired.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:06 pm
by como
nedberg wrote:como wrote:Aberzombie1892 wrote:As a result, if your 1L grades were lower (probably under a 3.25 for these schools), you would most likely have your best chances at "corporate law" in the home region of the school.
Keep that in mind.
Precisely. This is why I would argue Penn is the place to go. Penn has an equal to better shot at NYC biglaw and pick of the litter in Philly, a large regional market.
VA is competing big time with other top schools at DC, placing well in NYC, but not better than Penn.
Michigan is second-fiddle in Chicago, and wouldn't be an edge on Penn in NYC.
So says the guy at NY's third fiddle. Just kidding, but I think you're overestimating the poor economy's impact on the importance of geographic location with respect to these three schools. The main takeaway is that the difference in corporate law hiring (I'm assuming you mean NY) is negligible for MVP. The only relevance geography has in this situation is where you want to spend the next three years, not where you want to end up, as these schools give you equal shots at NY corporate law.
That being said, it would be pretty tight to take a few classes at Wharton, though it won't help in terms of getting hired.
Yea, I'm not really trying to argue that Cornell is comparable to a bunch of schools, but you're right. Third fiddle would be putting it nicely.
I'm not overestimating the economy's impact. If you're in the top 1/3 of any of those schools, you'll be fine in NY. What I'm saying is, it is a good idea to be conservative ITE. If you're at median at any of those schools, NYC biglaw will not be a sure shot so it helps to also have another large market with relatively little competition.
Trust the guy from a "third fiddle" with no secondary markets to fall back on.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:10 pm
by phoenixwright83
I asked this questions because I am applying early decision to one of the three.
Honestly, I really don't care about where I live, at least at this moment, who know maybe I'll change my mind, but I like to move around and would be so excited to go to any of these schools. I wouldn't complain. I am just worried about ED to one over the other and missing my opportunity.
If I do early decision, I don't expect to get much scholarship money and whoever I am accepted to, I am bound to attend.
I was hopping that there was a clear winner, but the answers I've received so far are kind of what I thought. Which makes my decision harder. However the votes are leaning toward Penn.
Does anyone know when their new application cycle starts? I thought I saw Virginia was in Sept. Is that correct?
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:21 pm
by FlightoftheEarls
vanwinkle wrote:These schools are roughly peer schools in corporate law placement. They're so similar that you should base which you attend on other factors (school atmosphere/location, scholarship $$, and so forth). Don't go looking for a huge difference between them in this regard, because it's simply not there.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:17 pm
by rayiner
Penn.
I think the level of increased regionalism ITE is underestimated on this board.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:24 pm
by Reedie
None of the three of these schools are just "better" at corporate law inmho. Go where there is good "fit" or where you want to live or where you will have the least debt.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:24 pm
by CanadianWolf
If these three law schools are actual options for you, then your biggest concern should focus on whether you prefer the South, the Midwest or the Northeast for the next three years.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:25 pm
by como
rayiner wrote:Penn.
I think the level of increased regionalism ITE is underestimated on this board.
Thank you.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:00 am
by drake
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Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:11 am
by quakeroats
As far as peers schools go, Duke and Penn finish well ahead of Virginia in New York. Michigan is a distant fourth and more in line with Cornell than with Duke, Penn, or Virginia.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:50 pm
by okfine
phoenixwright83 wrote:
Does anyone know when their new application cycle starts?
appreqs.com
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:35 pm
by FlightoftheEarls
quakeroats wrote:As far as peers schools go, Duke and Penn finish well ahead of Virginia in New York. Michigan is a distant fourth and more in line with Cornell than with Duke, Penn, or Virginia.
Blatant anti-Cornell trolling.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:39 pm
by como
FlightoftheEarls wrote:quakeroats wrote:As far as peers schools go, Duke and Penn finish well ahead of Virginia in New York. Michigan is a distant fourth and more in line with Cornell than with Duke, Penn, or Virginia.
Blatant anti-Cornell trolling.
Also, where did Duke come into play in this convo? Typical blue devils, dropping by uninvited, putting roofies in the punch and getting kicked out early.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:44 pm
by quakeroats
FlightoftheEarls wrote:quakeroats wrote:As far as peers schools go, Duke and Penn finish well ahead of Virginia in New York. Michigan is a distant fourth and more in line with Cornell than with Duke, Penn, or Virginia.
Blatant anti-Cornell trolling.
Cornell's a fine school. It's just not as fine as the aforementioned.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:46 pm
by DelDad
Although NY firm placement is pretty similar straight out from school for MVP, I'd give one particular edge to Penn for corporate types interested in a DE Court of Chancery clerkship (which you should at least consider if interested in corporate litigation or even transactional work).
Penn's corporate faculty members are very close to members of the Court of Chancery and Delaware Supreme Court, and several members of Delaware's state and federal judiciary adjunct there). In fact, 4 of the 10 Chancery clerks starting this fall took the same class at Penn with Vice Chancellor Strine in Spring '09.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:48 pm
by quakeroats
como wrote:FlightoftheEarls wrote:quakeroats wrote:As far as peers schools go, Duke and Penn finish well ahead of Virginia in New York. Michigan is a distant fourth and more in line with Cornell than with Duke, Penn, or Virginia.
Blatant anti-Cornell trolling.
Also, where did Duke come into play in this convo? Typical blue devils, dropping by uninvited, putting roofies in the punch and getting kicked out early.
Remind me of which school produces graduates so skilled in the dark arts of sentence fragmentation.
Re: M vs V vs P for corporate law
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:50 pm
by quakeroats
DelDad wrote:Although NY firm placement is pretty similar straight out from school for MVP, I'd give one particular edge to Penn for corporate types interested in a DE Court of Chancery clerkship (which you should at least consider if interested in corporate litigation or even transactional work).
Penn's corporate faculty members are very close to members of the Court of Chancery and Delaware Supreme Court, and several members of Delaware's state and federal judiciary adjunct there). In fact, 4 of the 10 Chancery clerks starting this fall took the same class at Penn with Vice Chancellor Strine in Spring '09.
They're not as similar as you may think. From what I've seen, Michigan has perhaps half the placement power of Penn in New York.