Top Law Schools

I chose, with assistance from this very board, to attend Notre Dame in the fall with a 20k/year scholarship. I chose this over small scholarships at GW and WashU, and sticker at Vandy and Georgetown. My rationale was that it seemed like all of these schools were struggling ITE and I would much rather be stuck looking for a job with no debt than with six-figure debt. I thought about getting some WE and reapplying, but because I am a low-GPA splitter, job opportunities were minimal. Notre Dame seemed like a good choice because of its national placement/name recognition and the "alumni network" I kept hearing about. I was otherwise unimpressed with ND: I'm not religious, not a "rah-rah" type college fan, and I would much rather be in a city/somewhere with good weather.

After seeing ND's OCI figures it seems like they were hit especially hard. Was my decision stupid? At this point, it seems like my best option (long-shot at best, I know) is to crush 1L year and transfer out.

Edit: poll added.

Call Notre Dame and see if they can shed some light on the numbers or if they are changing anything for next year.

ArtVandelay wrote:I chose, with assistance from this very board, to attend Notre Dame in the fall with a 20k/year scholarship. I chose this over small scholarships at GW and WashU, and sticker at Vandy and Georgetown. My rationale was that it seemed like all of these schools were struggling ITE and I would much rather be stuck looking for a job with no debt than with six-figure debt. I thought about getting some WE and reapplying, but because I am a low-GPA splitter, job opportunities were minimal. Notre Dame seemed like a good choice because of its national placement/name recognition and the "alumni network" I kept hearing about. I was otherwise unimpressed with ND: I'm not religious, not a "rah-rah" type college fan, and I would much rather be in a city/somewhere with good weather.

After seeing ND's OCI figures it seems like they were hit especially hard. Was my decision stupid? At this point, it seems like my best option (long-shot at best, I know) is to crush 1L year and transfer out.

Edit: poll added.

Are you really going to graduate with no debt with 20k year from ND?

Law school at large is a horrible decision ite.

ND, by extension, is currently a horrible decision.

smov_operator wrote:At this point, it seems like my best option (long-shot at best, I know) is to crush 1L year and transfer out.

Unfortunately, you can't predict your law school performance beforehand....if you can't live with a JD from ND, you shouldn't attend.

smov_operator wrote: I thought about getting some WE and reapplying, but because I am a low-GPA splitter, job opportunities were minimal.

You might want to seriously look at this option, especially ITE, putting off law school for a year, gaining some work experience, and reapplying.

Is there a reason why you have to rush off to law school?

Personally, I wouldn't have chosen ND, even ITE. HTH.

Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do.

ArtVandelay wrote:I chose this over small scholarships at GW and WashU, and sticker at Vandy and Georgetown. My rationale was that it seemed like all of these schools were struggling ITE and I would much rather be stuck looking for a job with no debt than with six-figure debt.

What made it "seem" or appear like Georgetown and Vandy were struggling more so than anyone else? I know that's not what you meant, but I would assume that the further you go down from the top (t-14) schools the more YOU will struggle finding a job in this economy to pay back your "debt" [(20k year scholarship = no debt from ND?) which may or may not be there the next two years depending on if you continue to meet the schollys GPA requirement].

I would have recommended going to the best school you gotten into but then again I don't know anything, I'm just an 0L like yourself.

I'd say that if you are seriously questioning your decision, then you made the wrong choice, or at least made it prematurely. You should have been sure of your decision and able to let it go once it was made.

if you arent 100% positive you made the right choice about what school you are going to... then you made the wrong choice. Re assess and reapply- or talk to the school about deferring for a year and getting work experience. That being said, if you still arent 100% positive that going to Law School this year, in this economy is a good decision- its okay, a lot of people get nervous about starting a new endeavor ( especially one that is a big financial risk)

ND's has never had great success in Vault firms, but they have been okay at placing students in midlaw or midwester biglaw (step up from midlaw, but not like a coastal firm). If you are okay working in the midwest, then ND is a great choice. You'll have opportunities. The only way you made a mistake is if you wanted a top Biglaw job (read: vault firms).

You know the mid-west unlike the rest of the country has held up pretty well economically.

If you think you made a mistake, better to cut your losses now and reapply than have to live with it. If you wouldn't be happy at ND (or with the job prospects) then don't go.

Just go, do well, enjoy the football games, and appreciate the lack of (or significantly lower) student loan payments.

There are probably going to be opportunities that will not exist for you, unless you are at the very top of your class - in which case you can reassess things next year (e.g. stay at the top at ND w/ $$ or transfer out), but there will be many other opportunities afforded to you by the lack of debt.

Edit: All this assumes your statement 20k/yr scholly = no debt (I'm guessing you have savings/parents/lottery winnings).

I can't really assess whether you made the right choice, but ignore anyone who says "if you arent 100% positive you made the right choice about what school you are going to... then you made the wrong choice". People always have doubts and "what if?" moments after making a big decision, and the presence of doubts and self-questioning does not mean that those doubts are accurate. Also, everyone on TLS is an enormous rankings/prestige whore, which leads to some predictable one-size-fits-all advice that is not very useful.

I would also recommend not attending ND if your only intention is to transfer out after 1L. Predicting your 1L performance is difficult, and attempting to rely on that prediction is reckless.

You got a great scholarship at a great school. Relax and enjoy law school.

MrKappus wrote:You got a great scholarship at a great school. Relax and enjoy law school.

Wow. Please don't listen to this kid.

20k @ ND still means 48k loans/yr x3 (assuming no tuition hikes) = 144k in debt after law school from a school's whose primary market shunned it the past two OCI's.

D Brooks wrote:

MrKappus wrote:You got a great scholarship at a great school. Relax and enjoy law school.

Wow. Please don't listen to this kid.

20k @ ND still means 48k loans/yr x3 (assuming no tuition hikes) = 144k in debt after law school from a school's whose primary market shunned it the past two OCI's.

First of all: --LinkRemoved-- ; $37k x 3 = 111k. Not 144. So you're a dipshit that can't do basic research. Congrats.

Second of all, OP got a great scholarship to a great school. OP should relax...and enjoy law school.

MrKappus wrote:

D Brooks wrote:

MrKappus wrote:You got a great scholarship at a great school. Relax and enjoy law school.

Wow. Please don't listen to this kid.

20k @ ND still means 48k loans/yr x3 (assuming no tuition hikes) = 144k in debt after law school from a school's whose primary market shunned it the past two OCI's.

First of all: --LinkRemoved-- ; $37k x 3 = 111k. Not 144. So you're a dipshit that can't do basic research. Congrats.

Second of all, OP got a great scholarship to a great school. OP should relax...and enjoy law school.

Can't and didn't do not mean the same thing. HTH.

ND is a middling T25 and half-tuition is laughable from a school with employment prospects that bleak.

Great scholarship and great school are both incorrect.

D Brooks wrote:Can't and didn't do not mean the same thing. HTH.

Haha it totally helps! You're not incompetent, just lazy...I'd totally take advice from you.

Here's something else people who aren't lazy do. Check data!

--LinkRemoved--

Apparently, 60% of ND grads go to law firms, 15% go to clerkships, and w/ 70% of private sector grads reporting, median salary is $150k. It's not a license to print money, but I wouldn't call that "bleak," by any means.

It seems like you were faced with a difficult decision, but I would've taken one of GeorgeTTTown or VanderbilTTT at sticker over ND with some money. At least georgetown still has some lay prestige (and is technically a t14 regardless of what people at TLS say), and Vandy's job prospects at least before ITE were pretty legit. I'd probably choose Vandy

If we're poised to enter a prolonged period of deflation, (I think we are) you should do everything you possibly can to avoid debt. Debt that must be paid off in increasingly scarce dollars will form a straitjacket on your career choices.

MrKappus wrote:

D Brooks wrote:Can't and didn't do not mean the same thing. HTH.

Haha it totally helps! You're not incompetent, just lazy...I'd totally take advice from you.

T25 private school - assumption of 40-43k tuition plus 15k COL is pretty reasonable.

I also got a 28k/yr scholly from ND this past cycle and attempted to regurgitate those numbers from memory.