Is T14 (T10) A Must If You Can Get In? Forum

[lfgsuperman]

I know that I do not have the same numbers as the original poster but I find myself in the same predicament as him regarding which school to pick. I have a full ride to U of South Carolina and I was accepted to BC. I am having trouble figuring out whether BC is worth paying the sticker even though it is not in the T14. I have very strong ties and contacts in the NC area but I have always had a dream of working in DC (working for the government in some capacity). Do you guys its work paying sticker for and turning down the full ride? Would BC give me an edge in the DC market? Would it give me an edge in the NC market because of its name?

[zanda]

Full price at BC = scary. I'd go to South Carolina.

[jdhonest]

T25 is too broad to give a sufficient answer to the OP's question.

Full ride to Vandy (IMO), trumps sticker or even $ at every T14, with maybe an exception for Yale or Harvard.

Full ride to Illinois or Minnesota for someone with big law goals and/or someone who wants a nationally portable degree isn't advisable over $$ at a T14.

If the OP wants solid advice, she should just come out with the school that she has the full ride to.

[sundevil77]

LOL. ITT: a righteous 0L discusses choosing a lower-ranked school based on a misunderstanding of the legal market; tons of other 0Ls who didn't have such a choice jump all over him/her to thank him/her.

Wow, another jackass TLS poster who likes to treat people like garbage...what a surprise

I spoke with many attorneys in the area including a hiring partner from a large regional firm. They all gave me pretty much the same advice...I couldn't go wrong either way. They all agreed that going to a T10 would give me advantages, namely that the big firms in the area want to snag at least a couple of people from top schools. However, the regional school has an outstanding reputation and great alumni base. They'll almost certainly hire grads from their alma mater. Plus, there were other reasons unique to my situation that led me to my decision.

I hope I don't come as naive, either. I realize that I'm making a calculated risk by choosing the lower ranked school. I'm seeking to mitigate that risk by taking on less debt and doing my homework beforehand.

The point is, mallard, that people can come to different, yet equally good decisions based on goals and circumstances unique to the individual.

[Hey-O]

The answer really depends on your goal and situation. I have similar numbers (lower GPA) and a similar situation (full scholarship to T 25) and I am going to re-apply next cycle.

For me it came down to life goals. I want public interest/government work so debt load doesn't really matter that much, but prestige does. Plus, I'm not 100% committed to the region I want to work in so I wanted a more portable degree. But it was by no means and easy decision. It was the right decision for me, but it definitely doesn't mean it is the right decision for everyone.

[mallard]

LOL. ITT: a righteous 0L discusses choosing a lower-ranked school based on a misunderstanding of the legal market; tons of other 0Ls who didn't have such a choice jump all over him/her to thank him/her.

Wow, another jackass TLS poster who likes to treat people like garbage...what a surprise

I spoke with many attorneys in the area including a hiring partner from a large regional firm. They all gave me pretty much the same advice...I couldn't go wrong either way. They all agreed that going to a T10 would give me advantages, namely that the big firms in the area want to snag at least a couple of people from top schools. However, the regional school has an outstanding reputation and great alumni base. They'll almost certainly hire grads from their alma mater. Plus, there were other reasons unique to my situation that led me to my decision.

I hope I don't come as naive, either. I realize that I'm making a calculated risk by choosing the lower ranked school. I'm seeking to mitigate that risk by taking on less debt and doing my homework beforehand.

The point is, mallard, that people can come to different, yet equally good decisions based on goals and circumstances unique to the individual.

When you say "don't listen to the advice you get on TLS" and then talk about going to a lower-ranked school, and a ton of people jump in to thank you, it's because they've listened to the truth about the current legal market and want to hear some things that will make them feel better. What you said did. Get all self-righteous and say I treat people like garbage (I don't; hth!), but that was the effect of your stupid fucking post. Everybody is unique, sure, I agree with that. But your original post evinced no real knowledge of how the legal market worked. You said, for example, that working 80 hours a week is not worth the extra $60k or $75k. The difference in hours between biglaw and whatever we take mythic "midlaw" to be right now will not be more than twenty or thirty a week at most and the difference in cash will be more than $75k.

By the way, I'd take many T25, or at least T20, schools at zero debt over MVPB at sticker. This is because it is better to graduate with no debt and no job than with debt and no job.

[AJRESQ]

LOL. ITT: a righteous 0L discusses choosing a lower-ranked school based on a misunderstanding of the legal market; tons of other 0Ls who didn't have such a choice jump all over him/her to thank him/her.

Wow, another jackass TLS poster who likes to treat people like garbage...what a surprise

I spoke with many attorneys in the area including a hiring partner from a large regional firm. They all gave me pretty much the same advice...I couldn't go wrong either way. They all agreed that going to a T10 would give me advantages, namely that the big firms in the area want to snag at least a couple of people from top schools. However, the regional school has an outstanding reputation and great alumni base. They'll almost certainly hire grads from their alma mater. Plus, there were other reasons unique to my situation that led me to my decision.

I hope I don't come as naive, either. I realize that I'm making a calculated risk by choosing the lower ranked school. I'm seeking to mitigate that risk by taking on less debt and doing my homework beforehand.

The point is, mallard, that people can come to different, yet equally good decisions based on goals and circumstances unique to the individual.

When you say "don't listen to the advice you get on TLS" and then talk about going to a lower-ranked school, and a ton of people jump in to thank you, it's because they've listened to the truth about the current legal market and want to hear some things that will make them feel better. What you said did. Get all self-righteous and say I treat people like garbage (I don't; hth!), but that was the effect of your stupid fucking post. Everybody is unique, sure, I agree with that. But your original post evinced no real knowledge of how the legal market worked. You said, for example, that working 80 hours a week is not worth the extra $60k or $75k. The difference in hours between biglaw and whatever we take mythic "midlaw" to be right now will not be more than twenty or thirty a week at most and the difference in cash will be more than $75k.

By the way, I'd take many T25, or at least T20, schools at zero debt over MVPB at sticker. This is because it is better to graduate with no debt and no job than with debt and no job.

Honestly, you probably work less in biglaw than you do small law. In biglaw, you have to bill a certain number of hours to be profitable... but since you have a great support staff it's relatively easy to focus on billable stuff. In small law, you do a lot of things yourself that are non-billable.

[pocket herc]

Mallard, how many people do you think at T1 schools are not getting jobs, as in any legal employment at all? You think more than %50 at T-25 schools are not finding employment at all?

[mallard]

Mallard, how many people do you think at T1 schools are not getting jobs, as in any legal employment at all? You think more than %50 at T-25 schools are not finding employment at all?

I wouldn't say that. I honestly don't know that much about employment stats once you get below the top twenty schools or so, and I don't know all that much about many kinds of legal occupations.

I do have friends at schools like Harvard, Columbia, Chicago, etc. who got nothing at OCI or were no-offered after 2L summer or were deferred indefinitely and were not able to find anything until after graduation.

[vanwinkle]

I agree with vanwinkle, but the real question to consider is whether those foreclosed opportunities are ones that would even interest you in the first place. If not, then I don't see the point in chasing the prestige.

If you see having a job as an opportunity you don't want foreclosed, you should try to move up as high as you can. Don't base your planning on doing well at law school, base it on doing poorly, so you're prepared. Median at T10 has job options that median at even T25 doesn't. It's not just about prestige at the top, it's about maximizing employability, period.

And please do not try to argue you'll do better at a T25 than at a T10. It does not work that way, the difference in competition at each is a few LSAT points and maybe a couple tenths of GPA. Law school is something you get or you don't. If you can't be at the top of a T10, you can't be at the top of a T25 either. A little higher maybe, but the difference will not be that big.

[Reedie]

Don't underestimate the impact of how much you will enjoy where you are (both the school and its location) on how well you will do. If the school you are going to is a place you will be excited about attending, then it isn't going to be a huge mistake to go there on a full ride (unless it really is a garbage school, which no t25 school is). I think comparing how you will do in terms of classrank at two institutions based solely on your perception of the student quality is a mistake. You aren't going to excel equally in every environment, and if you are going somewhere you love doing something you find exciting that should help motivate you.

With that said, I definitely think this is a good lesson on why to explore multiple opportunities by applying fairly widely and doing some visits at places that interest you! Did you not apply ANYWHERE in the t10 with a 4.0 and a 172? I have to say--even though I don't think going to a lower ranked school is always a mistake--I do think not sending out some apps was a big mistake. For anyone applicants preparing for this coming cycle, don't put yourself in that position.

[tponmyshoe]

It's George Washington in DC by the way, I'm a DC-suburb girl through and through.

[Reedie]

It's George Washington in DC by the way, I'm a DC-suburb girl through and through.

And you didn't even send apps to uva and georgetown? Sorry, not trying to be mean, I'm just surprised. GW is a great school though! I strongly considered attending.

[olanderp]

Re: 1, like I said, I know people at T14s with good grades who have *nothing*. There are well-known posters here going to T25s who can't get *anything*. 20% of Harvard struck out of OCI this year.

wow, did someone leak the stats?

I'd reapply. I wouldn't touch a non t-14 right now, even with a full ride, just given the lousy number of offices going to their OCIs. OP would also get $$ at some t-14s.