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I'm debating whether to attend UW (in Seattle,WA) or William and Mary (in Williamsburg, VA) in the fall. I'd like to practice international law, and I don't really care where; I just hope it's an awesome job. Both places would cost me about the same amount of money. Which do you think has the better reputation that will get me a better job, and give me more opportunities in the realm of international law?

Other factors:
I love the west coast, but I love the east coast as well, and it's also very enticing.

Another thing I value is professors--which school has better profs that I'll be able to actually get to know?

PS: I have to decide by July 10th. Help!

If you get in-state tuition after 1L from W&M won't it cost WAY less?? Look into that, or maybe some W&M kids on here can assist?

wrt int'l law, it's sort of misleading. I don't think there are necessarily that many "international law" jobs out there. Many areas of law will, however, necessarily deal with some amount of international law (CISG, UNIDROIT for contracts comes to mind). A lot of people, mostly 0Ls, imagine jet-setting across the globe on international law missions and shit, but the unfortunate fact is that those jobs are scarce (some on here will say flat out nonexistent). I don't think either school will give you any real advantage over the other, you just need to do well. So visit both and go where you feel the most comfortable.

Well, both universities will give me out-of-state tuition for the 2nd and 3rd years...so it'll be about the same price overall.

...and yes, I must admit, I probably have a romanticized view, but mostly I just want to have the ability to get a job that I love.

And why is everyone picking UW? Better national reputation?

Where do you live now?

Idaho! I don't really care about staying here though.

I would go with UWash. Its the top regional school for the NW and could put you in a pretty nice position there if you do well. Plus, W&M is in VA which has along with DC and MD have a law school on every corner and W&M is definitely not the best one of those.

Also, what exactly is this international law you are talking about? Public interest? Firm work?

One will serve you well on the West Coast, one will serve you well on the East Coast, but they don't mix back and forth.

Pick which coast you want and enjoy.

If it were me, I'd pick UW. W&M has a lot of competition, UW not so much.

alimary wrote:Well, both universities will give me out-of-state tuition for the 2nd and 3rd years...so it'll be about the same price overall.

Not true. UW guarantees instate rates after your first year. If it's not competing with scholarship offers from other schools, it's generally cheaper.

alimary wrote:Idaho! I don't really care about staying here though.

Go to UW.

keg411 wrote:

alimary wrote:Idaho! I don't really care about staying here though.

Go to UW.

This is easy. UW.

ccs224 wrote:

alimary wrote:Well, both universities will give me out-of-state tuition for the 2nd and 3rd years...so it'll be about the same price overall.

Not true. UW guarantees instate rates after your first year. If it's not competing with scholarship offers from other schools, it's generally cheaper.

This! Years 2 and 3 you will pay in-state tuition.

You will get west coast placement with UW (that is all you will get). You will NOT get east coast placement with William and Mary unless you graduate top of your class. You are more likely to get south with W&M.

Therefore, given your preferences...

GO UW!

Oh, and on another note... You are unlikely to get Intl Law from either school. That being said... for Intl law I would go UW, simply b/c its coastal position has made it focus on asian law a little bit more (Japan, China etc.) That being said, make no mistake, your chances of getting intl law from either school are LOW to say the least. Hell, your chances of getting intl law at Harvard are low. There just aren't that many international jobs availiable.

alimary wrote:Well, both universities will give me out-of-state tuition for the 2nd and 3rd years...so it'll be about the same price overall.

I meant in-state. Oops.

And after calling a lot of people and researching more online, I'm starting to think that you are all wrong (no offense). W&M would allow me to work anywhere on the east coast (great DC job placement) while UW would tie me up in Washington. If I wanted to work on the West Coast, it would be easier coming from W&M than trying to work on the East Coast coming from UW. W&M has an excellent international program, especially concerning international criminal stuff.

As for not many international jobs being available...untrue. Things seem to be trending that way. But that's not the issue at hand. I'm still unsure of my decision, but I don't understand how a decision to attend UW is "easy" here.

alimary wrote: As for not many international jobs being available...untrue. Things seem to be trending that way. But that's not the issue at hand. I'm still unsure of my decision, but I don't understand how a decision to attend UW is "easy" here.

http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

Would it be worthwhile to move to Spokane for a year first so as to get in-state tuition at UW for all three years?

I am a born Seattleite but left the PNW in 1981. I miss it to this day but opportunities were so much better here in the desert Southwest that I could never justify going back. On the grounds of envy alone, I recommend UW.

W&M will not allow you tremendous flexibility up and down the East Coast. Solid placement in VA, but it will be more of a dogfight in D.C. where there's more competition and T-14 grads coming into town for anti-trust law, DOJ etc. If you look at NY and Boston placement - it's sporadic at best with no more than several or so associates at a mixture of firms. And those grads tend to be top of the class which you cannot bank on in any law school.

alimary wrote: And after calling a lot of people and researching more online, I'm starting to think that you are all wrong (no offense). W&M would allow me to work anywhere on the east coast (great DC job placement) while UW would tie me up in Washington. If I wanted to work on the West Coast, it would be easier coming from W&M than trying to work on the East Coast coming from UW. W&M has an excellent international program, especially concerning international criminal stuff.

W&M doesn't travel well out of VA. It will not carry you everywhere on the coast. Try to take it to FL or NC or SC. People will look at you like "lol wut," unless you have connections, which you don't. It's not like a strong regional (Vandy, Emory) where you can be competitive in the region.

Also, specialty programs don't really translate to more jobs.

W&M feeds into a crowded market with a lot more prestigious schools. T13, GULC, GW, etc. The is simply less competition at UW for jobs.

As for not many international jobs being available...untrue. Things seem to be trending that way. But that's not the issue at hand. I'm still unsure of my decision, but I don't understand how a decision to attend UW is "easy" here.

"International law" is like monopoly money. People love to talk about about it, but the term isn't worth anything with modifiers like "Intl. M&A." http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

There are jobs available, but not in the way you think. Example: One of the firms I work for is doing a cross-border criminal extradition case and a salvage case involving a US company and the govts. of 2 foreign countries. These are technically "international." However, none of these cases require foreign travel, knowledge of a foreign language, or knowledge of foreign law. See the above link.

General Tso wrote:

alimary wrote: As for not many international jobs being available...untrue. Things seem to be trending that way. But that's not the issue at hand. I'm still unsure of my decision, but I don't understand how a decision to attend UW is "easy" here.

http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

Beat me to it.

Lulz at op saying that we are all wrong. The only reason you are defending W&M is b/c you still have this cacamamy (sp?) scheme to practice Int'l law and you think W&M's specialty ranking will help you.

A'nold wrote:Lulz at op saying that we are all wrong. The only reason you are defending W&M is b/c you still have this cacamamy (sp?) scheme to practice Int'l law and you think W&M's specialty ranking will help you.

--ImageRemoved--

A'nold wrote:Lulz at op saying that we are all wrong. The only reason you are defending W&M is b/c you still have this cacamamy (sp?) scheme to practice Int'l law and you think W&M's specialty ranking will help you.

Cockamamie.

get it to x wrote:There are jobs available, but not in the way you think.

No, I'm pretty sure I understand. I've read that article before. Trade, criminal, immigration, human rights, public interest, intellectual property...all of this can be included in the realm of international law. I just received e-mails from two W&M professors that are heavily involved in these fields. But that aside, who cares about the controversial definitions of these...

BeautifulSW wrote:W&M will not allow you tremendous flexibility up and down the East Coast.

These people say different: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=100. The William and Mary folks, anyway.

I just want a cool job, people. Seattle doesn't seem to have the cool jobs that they have over on the other side.

kalvano wrote:

A'nold wrote:Lulz at op saying that we are all wrong. The only reason you are defending W&M is b/c you still have this cacamamy (sp?) scheme to practice Int'l law and you think W&M's specialty ranking will help you.

Cockamamie.

some old coot called our office last week and demanded to know what kind of cockamamie scheme we were running

It's a great word.

alimary wrote:

get it to x wrote:There are jobs available, but not in the way you think.

No, I'm pretty sure I understand. I've read that article before. Trade, criminal, immigration, human rights, public interest, intellectual property...all of this can be included in the realm of international law. I just received e-mails from two W&M professors that are heavily involved in these fields. But that aside, who cares about the controversial definitions of these...

As long as you are cool with probably the only thing "international" about the jobs being your clients' funny accents, go for it.

These people say different: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=100. The William and Mary folks, anyway.

mid-Atlantic/DC =/= up and down the East Coast

I just want a cool job, people. Seattle doesn't seem to have the cool jobs that they have over on the other side.

A lot of law is not cool, is horrifically boring, can be done by Indians in Mumbai, and is sheer cut-and-paste drivel.

HTH