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Right now I am set to go to Seton Hall, $25,000/year scholarship, and better than my other two choices: DePaul and Loyola-Chicago. I'm waitlisted at William & Mary, Washington & Lee, ASU, Temple, and American. It's the middle of June, so I'm not counting on getting in.

I really hate Newark and only applied to Seton as a safety school. Even with a scholarship, I'll be taking out about $40,000 in loans this year. I cannot picture myself ever wanting to live in NJ. If I did go there I'd try to transfer after my first year to UC-Boulder (rejected this year), ASU, or something ranked higher, but I feel that this would be risky.

So would it be better to suck it up and go to SHU and try to transfer or to retake the LSAT and try to score higher and reapply for next year? In a month of half-assed studying I got a 160 last year.

Maybe Seton Hall isn't as bad as people are saying it is?

bakerka2 wrote:Right now I am set to go to Seton Hall, $25,000/year scholarship, and better than my other two choices: DePaul and Loyola-Chicago. I'm waitlisted at William & Mary, Washington & Lee, ASU, Temple, and American. It's the middle of June, so I'm not counting on getting in.

I really hate Newark and only applied to Seton as a safety school. Even with a scholarship, I'll be taking out about $40,000 in loans this year. I cannot picture myself ever wanting to live in NJ. If I did go there I'd try to transfer after my first year to UC-Boulder (rejected this year), ASU, or something ranked higher, but I feel that this would be risky.

So would it be better to suck it up and go to SHU and try to transfer or to retake the LSAT and try to score higher and reapply for next year? In a month of half-assed studying I got a 160 last year.

Maybe Seton Hall isn't as bad as people are saying it is?

sounds like you already made your decision. retake. did you study for the lsat? how many times have you taken the lsat?

This seems to have become Seton Hall's unofficial wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =306253495

I'm from NJ...alot of nice parts but newark isnt one of them. I got into seton too but I'll be going to Miami instead. While a tad harsh, this page sure made me laugh

hahahahhahaha

It may differ significantly from the current revision.

I almost pissed in my pants at this lol, I know the JDUnderground folks did this...they have some legitimate gripes but many of them dont look at themselves.

Clearly the 1 vote for SHU is a joke.

Hey, I was in a similar position. Personally, I don’t think you’ve given enough context to your post for people here to give solid advice. I have some questions for you that are meant to be helpful. You don’t actually have to reply to them. In fact, I just recommend answering them for yourself.

bakerka2 wrote: I really hate Newark [...] I cannot picture myself ever wanting to live in NJ.

Have you been to Newark? If so, how much have you seen or experienced for yourself?

bakerka2 wrote: In a month of half-assed studying I got a 160 last year.

How confident are you actually that you will be able to improve your LSAT score, and by how much? Look carefully at the lsat scoring scale, imagine by how much you can improve in each section, and see how that improvement corresponds to the LSAT scale. Then compare that to the LSAT predictor website medians. How much better a school/scholarship is possible?

bakerka2 wrote: Maybe Seton Hall isn't as bad as people are saying it is?

Could this be the main reason you're questioning your decision? Are you aware that there is one disgruntled alumnus in particular who has been airing his concerns/baggage/hate for years? (The author of that so-called "unofficial" wikipedia post above)


Lastly, what is your alternative for the next year? Do you have a job lined up, or easily lined up? One during which you could easily study for the LSAT more seriously? Will you make enough to cover expenses? And finally, how eager are you to go to law school? If you were less concerned, would you want to postpone this next phase of your life?

bakerka2 wrote:Right now I am set to go to Seton Hall, $25,000/year scholarship, and better than my other two choices: DePaul and Loyola-Chicago.

I assume Seton Hall is "better" only because of the scholarship? If not, three years in Chicago > Newark. At this level, a disparity of 10 spots in USNWR ranking is relatively meaningless and regional preferences are far, far more important.

Nonetheless, if you think you can do better, retake. Planning to transfer is risky. Do not attend anywhere if you would be unhappy at median.

You couldn't pay me to go to Newark... retake the LSAT and get a higher score. Invest in a good LSAT course, and u are sure to go up. Even a couple of points higher can put you in a different percentage bracket.

Also, another year of solid work history (professional job) would also boost your application.

But also, stay on William and Mary's waitlist... if you get in, go. Other than than, re-take for next year.

krj02004 wrote: But also, stay on William and Mary's waitlist... if you get in, go.

You'll almost assuredly be paying sticker, so no.

Re-take for next year.

Yes.

The only thing good about Newark...

Cory Booker.

I notice even on the current SHU page it's Dean: "Valvoline" Patrick E. Hobbs.

eagles86 wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =306253495

Epic.

atlantalaw wrote:
sounds like you already made your decision. retake. did you study for the lsat? how many times have you taken the lsat?

I took it once. My only prep was a Kaplan class the month before and I didn't really do much outside studying.

concurrent fork wrote:

bakerka2 wrote:Right now I am set to go to Seton Hall, $25,000/year scholarship, and better than my other two choices: DePaul and Loyola-Chicago.

I assume Seton Hall is "better" only because of the scholarship? If not, three years in Chicago > Newark. At this level, a disparity of 10 spots in USNWR ranking is relatively meaningless and regional preferences are far, far more important.

Nonetheless, if you think you can do better, retake. Planning to transfer is risky. Do not attend anywhere if you would be unhappy at median.

I got $5000 from Loyola and $15,000 from DePaul.

bakerka2 wrote:

atlantalaw wrote:
sounds like you already made your decision. retake. did you study for the lsat? how many times have you taken the lsat?

I took it once. My only prep was a Kaplan class the month before and I didn't really do much outside studying.

perfect answer for a retake. you can do better. even a few points more on the lsat can make a world of difference.

...

rad law wrote:

krj02004 wrote: But also, stay on William and Mary's waitlist... if you get in, go.

You'll almost assuredly be paying sticker, so no.

rad law wrote:
I disagree and I will tell you why.

1) Tuition at William mand mary is much cheaper than schools of similar rank, even out of state. i was accepted and ultimately withdrew my offer, but the financial aid package said that out-of-state tuition is only $33k per year... after the first year you may be able to get Virginia residency and the in-state tuition is also much lower. Paying sticker at WIlliam and Mary is not the same as paying sticker at a lot of other private (and out-of-state public) schools. Before any scholarship money, you will easily pay $50k less.

2) COL in and around Williamsburg is cheap... if you do graduate housing with a roommate you will pay $500 per month with all utilities included. I'm going to guess Newark is more expensive.

I would definitely re-take the LSAT and apply next year, but if WIlliam and MAry gives you a offer I would definitely consider it.

DO NOT GO TO SETON HALL...

You said it yourself that you did not study seriously for the LSAT. Study and retake- we both know you can do a lot better.

Please don't screw yourself over by going to Seton Hall especially when deep down you know you can do better.

RETAKE AND REAPPLY.

DO NOT SETTLE AND SELL YOURSELF SHORT.

TAKE STUDYING LSAT SERIOUSLY AND TRY AGAIN.

YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF.

This graph displaying schools ranked by class percentile hired by Article III Federal Judges is pretty impressive for Seton Hall. Not only are clerkships impressive on the resume and solid work expereince; They open doors for firm hiring as well. One reason SHU Law does well in this regard is because there are many clerking opportunities in NJ to which fewer people apply because of their bias against living in the area (their loss):

Seton Hall Law #27
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Seton Hall Law #16
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Edit: Source: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513

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fakemoney wrote: Thanks for the info...

My thing is, I already live near NJ, and my law school choices are limited to the NYC/NJ schools.

Limited to save money? Family? Just out of curiousity, why aren't you willing to move? (I don't blame you, just wondering)

Realistically, with a 3.5 GPA, I'd probably need at least a 173/174 LSAT (4th LSAT too, so my score might not even be taken too seriously) to sniff Columbia or NYU. I think the realistic goal of another app cycle (my third one)

I appreciate not wanting to go through this again. I've just gone through the cycle once, and I have little desire to do it again.

for me would be Fordham or possibly a big scholarship to BLS or 'Dozo.

A big scholarship at BLS or Cardozo would be great, but they are roughly considered peer institutions with SHU. Yes, BLS and Cardozo will place better in NYC, but SHU will place better in Jersey. Since you are from NJ, it seems that this makes them peers enough to consider them a wash. The difference is that you already have a sizeable scholarship to SHU.

I'm really not sure if it's worth turning down money from Seton Hall and signing on for another year at a job that makes me dumber every day and doesn't lend well to LSAT prepping for a shot at Fordham or marginally better NYC schools. Ugh.

To me this is the biggest consideration. If you don't like your job, and you think it makes you less prepared for what you really want to do, that's all the more reason to get right along with what you really what to do with your life (and go to law school in the fall.

The main thing that's steering me towards a retake is that I never really gave the LSAT my best effort, and it's pretty unconscionable to have my options limited for being an undisciplined ass.

Something to think about: Everyone has a burn out point. Studying your ass off for the LSAT is generally speaking easier than law school, but studying for the lsat over and over again before law schol stl takes a toll on you. Why not spend that time studying your ass off for your 1L grades? Afterall, the only point of the LSAT is to get into a good law school (which SHU is). At that point, all that matters is how well you do in law school. Even T-14 grads are having a hard time if they are at the bottom of their class. In other words, ultimately, studying hard for classes matters the most. Why not just go to SHU and focus on that?

Lastly, have you visisted?
SHU is worth a visit.

..

If you get in off the WL at either W&L or W&M and don't want to wait another year, I'd go there. Otherwise a retake is the smart move. If you got a 160 by barely trying, you should definitely be capable of high 160s or even 170s. I have a similar GPA (3.45) and with a 168 I was WL'd at Columbia (and 4 other T14s + UCLA & Vandy) and I got a $15,000/year scholarship at Fordham (plus another $18K-ish in need-based financial aid). Just a few points and a couple of months of prep could do a world of difference for your options.

danidancer wrote:If you get in off the WL at either W&L or W&M and don't want to wait another year, I'd go there. Otherwise a retake is the smart move. If you got a 160 by barely trying, you should definitely be capable of high 160s or even 170s. I have a similar GPA (3.45) and with a 168 I was WL'd at Columbia (and 4 other T14s + UCLA & Vandy) and I got a $15,000/year scholarship at Fordham (plus another $18K-ish in need-based financial aid). Just a few points and a couple of months of prep could do a world of difference for your options.

Thanks for the info. I think I am going to retake- as much as I would love to never see the LSAT again... but I think it beats living in Newark.

bakerka2 wrote:

danidancer wrote:If you get in off the WL at either W&L or W&M and don't want to wait another year, I'd go there. Otherwise a retake is the smart move. If you got a 160 by barely trying, you should definitely be capable of high 160s or even 170s. I have a similar GPA (3.45) and with a 168 I was WL'd at Columbia (and 4 other T14s + UCLA & Vandy) and I got a $15,000/year scholarship at Fordham (plus another $18K-ish in need-based financial aid). Just a few points and a couple of months of prep could do a world of difference for your options.

Thanks for the info. I think I am going to retake- as much as I would love to never see the LSAT again... but I think it beats living in Newark.

Smart choice. Law school isn't going anywhere.