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Broad interests in public interest/government and biglaw. Want to be able to work in San Francisco and New York, possibly in Europe too. I am slightly leaning towards Cornell, but I don't know if the debt is really worth it.

Please help!

For CA, UCLA. For NY, Cornell.

70k worth of debt versus 150-ish-k debt is a pretty big difference.

There is probably an argument to be made for Cornell's national reach (i.e. getting a job on either coast) and/or the potential for IBR to make the relative debt less important ... but I'm not going to make it. ITE/Near-future-post-ITE, low debt is a marvelous thing.

Go Bruins.

EDIT: Are there any scholly stipulations for either? Just curious.

NoleinNY wrote:For CA, UCLA. For NY, Cornell.

70k worth of debt versus 150-ish-k debt is a pretty big difference.

Where's you get those numbers?

It's more like 140k vs 190k (assuming that OP is in-state for UCLA).

No stipulation for Cornell's scholarship. Most of UCLA's scholly is need-based so I would have to re-apply every year. Would that change your original opinion?

I realize that it does come down to where I want to live/work in the future, but to be honest, I'm not sure and I don't want to be tied down to one coast.

I also would get in-state tuition and calculated about $130,000 in debt for UCLA vs. $185,000 in debt for Cornell.

I know Cornell has better national reach, but is that reach worth the $55,000 (assuming I still get the same scholly from UCLA every year)?

doomed123 wrote:

NoleinNY wrote:For CA, UCLA. For NY, Cornell.

70k worth of debt versus 150-ish-k debt is a pretty big difference.

Where's you get those numbers?

It's more like 140k vs 190k (assuming that OP is in-state for UCLA).

Oops... I misread the over 3 years part. I thought it was 45k per year vs 15k per year...

In that case, I throw out the previous scholarship rationale for the undeniable truth that Westwood>>>>>>>>Ithaca.

Any more feedback? I would reeeaallly appreciate any advice, especially from current law students at the schools re: employment prospects!

I have to decide by Tuesday...

the two places you want to work are both outside of UCLA's primary placement location, and one of the two is Cornell's primary placement location. go with cornell, otherwise you'd be lining yourself up to work some place you don't prefer. plus if you're interested in public interest, lrap and ibr should make that 30k difference in debt quite manageable. that difference shouldn't be compelling enough for you to forgo giving yourself the best opportunity to get a job where you'd prefer most to work.

hereforhelp wrote:No stipulation for Cornell's scholarship. Most of UCLA's scholly is need-based so I would have to re-apply every year. Would that change your original opinion?

I realize that it does come down to where I want to live/work in the future, but to be honest, I'm not sure and I don't want to be tied down to one coast.

I also would get in-state tuition and calculated about $130,000 in debt for UCLA vs. $185,000 in debt for Cornell.

I know Cornell has better national reach, but is that reach worth the $55,000 (assuming I still get the same scholly from UCLA every year)?

Cornell. You won't get the aid again 2L year at UCLA. I have a lot of friends who were rejected aid after 1L year.

UCLA.

olanderp: Do you know why your friends were rejected aid after 1L? Did they work high-paying summer jobs? I don't see my financial circumstances changing that much from when I applied this year to next year, so I'm a bit nervous when you say UCLA will probably reject my need-based aid.

I know Cornell would be best for New York and UCLA for Los Angeles, but what about San Francisco? Anyone know? Thanks!!

Also, Hopefullawstudent: Is there a reason why you say UCLA?

Thanks for all of the help everyone!

hereforhelp wrote:Broad interests in public interest/government and biglaw. Want to be able to work in San Francisco and New York, possibly in Europe too. I am slightly leaning towards Cornell, but I don't know if the debt is really worth it.

Please help!

If you want to be able to work in San Francisco and New York, Cornell seems the obvious choice. I feel pretty confident in saying that getting a job in SF is more likely coming from Cornell than getting a job in NY is coming from UCLA, and getting a job in NY from Cornell would likely be easier than getting a job in San Francisco coming from UCLA. And if you're thinking of possibly working in Europe, Cornell seems the obvious choice for that too, as Cornell is a very internationally respected university with a huge presence overseas. Internationally, the lay prestige of the University is going to matter for finding a job.

Full Disclosure: I got to Cornell and love it. But even without that, I think Cornell would be the obvious choice. Also, Cornell has a kick ass loan repayment program for public interest work.

Cornell. Unless you have ties to SF (and even if you do) SF is a tough market to break into, so at UCLA there's a good chance you'll strike out in both markets. Low debt is nice, but missing biglaw is a lot tougher on your pocketbook than an extra 30k in debt. Cornell --> NYC --> lateral to SF (map of your life)

edit: I realize your OP makes it clear that you are not biglaw or bust, and it's far from guaranteed from either school, but if you do well 1L year you'll probably be happy to have the option.

Thanks for all of the help! I was leaning towards Cornell anyways, but I was just nervous at the thought of taking on that much debt (and the idea of living in Ithaca for 3 years)... Seems like Cornell is the better fit considering my future aspirations.

hereforhelp wrote:
I know Cornell has better national reach, but is that reach worth the $55,000 (assuming I still get the same scholly from UCLA every year)?

When it comes to the University of California system, assume NOTHING. You won't get a penny next year, that is, if UCLA isn't in Chapter 7.

And probably not.

Westwood>>>>>>Ithaca (this is 27 months), but east coast>>>>>>>>>>>West CoasTTT (this is the rest of your life or at least 5-10 years) on every count except weather.

motiontodismiss wrote:east coast>>>>>>>>>>>West CoasTTT (this is the rest of your life or at least 5-10 years) on every count except weather.

hereforhelp wrote:olanderp: Do you know why your friends were rejected aid after 1L? Did they work high-paying summer jobs? I don't see my financial circumstances changing that much from when I applied this year to next year, so I'm a bit nervous when you say UCLA will probably reject my need-based aid.

No, they were unpaid. The UC system is struggling to make ends meet. If you are already in-state or think you will get instate, the schools consider that a bargain already. Just a warning, but don't expect to get your need-based aid renewed 2L year.

Hmm, thanks for the warning.

On another note, does anyone know what the average amount of debt law students incur after their 3 yrs of law school?

Extra debt really doesn't make up for small difference in rankings. If you want San Francisco, seriously go with UCLA. ITE, career prospects for the two probably won't vary all that much. Go Bruins!!!!!

Looking at some simple numbers (if that's all you care about) you should take Cornell.

Estimated COA: UCLA (in-state) - $141,048, UCLA (out of state) - $151,071, Cornell - $194,250
Yearly loan payment (10 year term @ 8%): UCLA (in-state) 20,535.50, UCLA (out of state) $21,994.92, Cornell $28,281

Risk weighted return (assuming an equal chance at doing well or poorly):
Cornell Big Law - %52.4 @ 160k
Cornell Small Law - %47.6 @ 50K
Proability weighted return - $107,640

UCLA Big Law - %41.9 @ 160k
UCLA Small Law - %58.1 @ 50k
Probalilty weighted return - $96,090

ROI: Cornell $79,385, UCLA (in-state) $75,554

hereforhelp wrote:Hmm, thanks for the warning.

On another note, does anyone know what the average amount of debt law students incur after their 3 yrs of law school?

About 80k. The debt average gets higher the higher you are in the rankings.

wow, thank you for that mec30.