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I want to practice in socal but am concerned that Chapman's jump into T2 might be a short lived one...fwiw my living expenses will be covered and we have a family practice in socal that will hire me regardless starting between 50-60k...it seems like every lawyer i've spoken to that is over the age of 40 has said take Loyola while everyone younger has said take the money...

Are you certain you want the family practice job? If so then why put yourself further in debt for nothing?

If you are going into the family practice no matter what then take the money?

I'm more treating the family practice job as a safety valve right now...I'd rather be treated like crap as a young associate by a stranger than a family member

I think you will have relatively similar opportunities in So. Cal. (not elsewhere) from either school. Not exactly similar, but not drastically different. I would take Chapman's money either way.

The money does look good but it just worries me that I could easily fall out of the top 1/3 and Chapman could easily fall out of the top 100 which would leave me paying sticker for a T3 which would suck...

Chapman is cheaper and you have a fall-back option. You will get somewhat similar employment opportunities if you do well at Chapman than if you do average/well at Loyola.

However, doing really well at Loyola (combined with their alumni network) will be miles ahead of doing really well at Chapman.

Just consider this before making your decision. IBR isn't that bad and can give you a cushion in case you don't do as well as you hoped. Go hard or go home.

I vote Loyola.

Gonna agree with the above poster. If you do poorly at Chapman or Loyola you still have the family job as a fall back. If you do well then being at Loyola will probably open more doors for you than Chapman and even if it doesn't you still have that backup plan.

Keep the debt in perspective. Loyola tuition at sticker is approximately $125,500 (not including living expenses, books, etc.). Chapman tuition over 3 years with your scholarship , assuming you stay in the top third, is approx. $35,500 (not including living expenses, books, etc.). Chapman tuition over 3 years but with your scholarship for only 1 year, assuming you lose it, is approx. $91,000.

Do the math on the debt savings under either scenario. For that reason alone, I'd take Chapman.

PogueMahone wrote:The money does look good but it just worries me that I could easily fall out of the top 1/3 and Chapman could easily fall out of the top 100 which would leave me paying sticker for a T3 which would suck...

This is something to consider. One bad class 1L and you are sticker at Chapman the rest of the way.

what percentage of the chapman class will be receiving scholarship under the same terms? here's betting its more than a third of the class.

do you think you'll be top third? are your numbers in their top third?

still, I'm voting chapman

lawgod wrote:do you think you'll be top third? are your numbers in their top third?

Impossible to answer the first. The second is not a significant indicator of where you will end up.

Chapman is less likely than other schools that are closely ranked to fall back into T3. This is because they post solid Tier 2 and Tier 1 scores for all aspects of the rankings minus reputation. Their reputation scores have increased slightly nearly every year, and there is no reason to suspect that they can't climb higher with their reputation scores. I don't see their reputation scores falling, since they are already pretty low, so any climb is going to really help them. They will also likely increase their GPA/LSAT scores in the near future because of all the positive advertising they are getting from the rankings and the fact that they have a ton of money to offer prospective students with scholarship aid.

Loyola is a better school, and probably will be viewed so in the short term, but the gap between the schools will likely continue to narrow. Chapman has jumped 50 schools in the last 3 years, and they won't jump nearly as many in the next three, but they should be ranked around 70-75 if they play their cards right. In 5-10 years, you could see Chapman being viewed in the same light as Loyola.

Now if you were deciding between McGeorge and Loyola, then I could validate why you would be worried. McGeorge is bipolar with the rankings and jumps up and down from TTT to 90-100. Sacramento market does that to you. Same with USF being lumped with Four Tier 1 schools within 50 miles, plus an underranked Santa Clara near it. Chapman has a lot of competition too, but not as much as USF.

Bump for more votes

bk187 wrote:

lawgod wrote:do you think you'll be top third? are your numbers in their top third?

Impossible to answer the first. The second is not a significant indicator of where you will end up.

While I agree that LSAT/GPA is not the be-all end-all, this is actually flat out wrong. They are statistically significant with coefficients of 0.45 for LSAT and 0.3 for GPA.

Take the money
Work for the family firm
Establish yourself in the firm
Get your name on the door as a partner
Make bank
Sell firm and retire at 50

I voted Chapman, but I think it's a closer call than the numbers indicate. Also, how much OP wants to be in LA (vs. OC) should weigh heavily in the calculus. On balance, I think he should plan to work for his family if relations are solid.