Pitt $$ vs George Mason Forum

[aeqvitas]

Well. I visited Pitt.

Beautiful city - very surprising. Even so, I'm still leaning towards GMU. I don't know that I could see myself settling down in Pittsburgh or PA in general. And, seeing as 60% of Pitt Law grads stay in PA, I need to be comfortable with that prospect.

I'm still thinking about it, though.

George Mason students/grads, any input here?

[aeqvitas]

bump

[BigFatPanda]

Well. I visited Pitt.

Beautiful city - very surprising. Even so, I'm still leaning towards GMU. I don't know that I could see myself settling down in Pittsburgh or PA in general. And, seeing as 60% of Pitt Law grads stay in PA, I need to be comfortable with that prospect.

I'm still thinking about it, though.

George Mason students/grads, any input here?

Not a GMU student/grad (will be one this coming August), but i did attend the ASD and talk to GMU 2L/3L as well as having friends who are currently GMU 3Es. According to the conversations that i had, the general route for a lot of GMU 1L will be some sort of public interest clinics while 2L would have some kind of government / PI internships. BigLaw are rare even when economies are good (top 20-25% of the class?) and almost non-existent according to 3L of this year. Further, those at 50% are not having a good time. Nevertheless, optimism generally prevails (at the very least, a show of optimism to attract students at ASD) and many are confident (warranted / unwarranted) about future placement in government (local/federal).

Disclaimer: take my rather gloomy (but umbellished) perspective with a grain of salt as i am discouraging you from attending so that you would not compete with me for the military appointment spots alloted to GMU . Hope you're staying in shape.....

[digitalcntrl]

Turned down Quinnipiac (Full ride) and U. South Carolina (15K/year) already. The job market in SC has been really really rough lately, and USC grads don't really stand a chance out of state.

I've put in my seat deposit at GMU - and made my decision based on Income Based Repayment. With IBR and government/military work (which is what I'm shooting for), GMU debt seems to be very manageable.

HOWEVER, now that I've received the scholly to Pitt law, I've got a decision to make. Pitt sends a lot of grads to DC, which is really attractive to me. They have a semester externship program in DC, and cost of living in Pitt is super cheap. Total debt 90K (60-70K if I gain instate after 1L).

I'm visiting the school next week. My second seat deposit for GMU is due in June.

I am not a GMU student. I, however, have done extensive research on all the decent law schools in DC, live like 1.8 miles from GMU, have numerous friends and co-workers (I go to law school in the evening) that either attend GMU or are alumni, and have been to the law school many times (for various functions).

From all of this I would say GMU is a good but not great school. It is definitely the place to be if you are looking for govt work (I am not sure how military law exactly fits into this). Many current students and alumni have said that the career placement office is excellent. They appear to have numerous contacts in the govt and appear to work very hard for you especially if you are proactive.

[digitalcntrl]

I'd definitely say GMU if you had in-state tuition, but without it, I'd have to say Pitt. Personally I can't stand the city of Pittsburgh, and I laughed pretty hard when Forbes rated it #1 (why do most of its residents ditch the city if it's #1?). But there are a lot of people from the Pittsburgh area who live in DC, and the university is quite well respected, it's a very good institution overall (I admittedly know nothing about the law school). GMU is a great school but the DC area is so hypercompetitive that its job placement is pretty darn weak, certainly not good enough to justify out-of-state tuition. Also GMU doesn't have much of a reputation outside the DC area, it's just not very well known because it's a relatively new law school, even though it's quite good.

Given the state of the legal job market, I think only the top students at both schools would have a chance at a DC area firm, so I'd suggest the debt-averse option.

A few comments:

1) As far as I know there are very few Pitt law grads working in DC (In other words in my long experience of meeting people in the DC legal field I have never come upon a Pitt grad). If you are working here you likely are either are coming from a local school (or relatively close school like Univ. of Maryland) or a T-25.

2) It is correct to state that GMU is a very regional school. Most grads do stay in the Mid-Atlantic.

3) DC is a competitive market but it is also a huge market. Also GMU does dominate NOVA (Northern Virginia).

[pjo]

Well I got my plane ticket, so I'll be heading up on monday.

Pitt is an EXTREMELY nice place to live, and even though the job market is terrible, 99% of my fellow 1Ls have internships lined up for summer (I have two myself). Additionally, the ugliest part of the building (the basement) is getting remodeled this summer. So, things will only be nicer.

Anyhoo, I love it here. So, I'll stop gushing. =)

Not trying to highjack the thread or anything but could you elaborate on some of the summer work the 1L’s at Pitt have lined up? Also, was it mostly thorugh leg work/personal connections or through career services (I’ve heard Career Services at Pitt isn’t that great but 99% 1L’s with summer work is huge ITE IMHO.)

[2009 Prospective]

Well I got my plane ticket, so I'll be heading up on monday.

Pitt is an EXTREMELY nice place to live, and even though the job market is terrible, 99% of my fellow 1Ls have internships lined up for summer (I have two myself). Additionally, the ugliest part of the building (the basement) is getting remodeled this summer. So, things will only be nicer.

Anyhoo, I love it here. So, I'll stop gushing. =)

Not trying to highjack the thread or anything but could you elaborate on some of the summer work the 1L’s at Pitt have lined up? Also, was it mostly thorugh leg work/personal connections or through career services (I’ve heard Career Services at Pitt isn’t that great but 99% 1L’s with summer work is huge ITE IMHO.)

I wouldn't get too overly excited over the number of 1Ls with summer internships, it's largely possible to at least find something 1L summer. 2L summer employment is what really matters.

[sdv]

As a lifelong Pittsburgher, I feel the need to chime in here to say that Pittsburgh is an absolutely fantastic place to live and work - there's not a single negative thing I can say: it has all the cultural and social aspects of a city 4 times it's size, and none of the crime or high COL. As far as job prospects go, it's worth mentioning that Reed Smith hires more Pitt grads than any other school, and there are Reed Smith offices all over the place (including DC, I believe, but I could be wrong about that). I'd also consider the benefit of attending a school that is the unquestioned #1 in its region, giving one the inside track for the best jobs in that particular market, which would allow one, presumably, to make a lateral move a few years down the line if you'd really rather be in another city.

I doubt you will though; the only people who love Pittsburgh more than the people who live there are the people who move away...

2 points of clarification though: firstly, it's true that you don't NEED a car, but the Pittsburgh bus system isn't exactly amazing (not sure who said it was better than the DC metro, but that's definitely NOT the case). The most difficult aspect of the bus system is the fact that, from Oakland, you can get downtown but nowhere else. If you're planning on doing all of your living, studying, and drinking in Oakland/downtown, you're ok, but if you have any desire to get to the suburbs, it's a bit of a pain in the ass procedure. With that said, I know a lot of people who do it.

Secondly, it's been raining here for 2 weeks straight, so since you just visited I feel the need to point out that it does NOT usually rain like this - this isn't Seattle, after all...

[pjo]

2 points of clarification though: firstly, it's true that you don't NEED a car, but the Pittsburgh bus system isn't exactly amazing (not sure who said it was better than the DC metro, but that's definitely NOT the case). The most difficult aspect of the bus system is the fact that, from Oakland, you can get downtown but nowhere else. If you're planning on doing all of your living, studying, and drinking in Oakland/downtown, you're ok, but if you have any desire to get to the suburbs, it's a bit of a pain in the ass procedure. With that said, I know a lot of people who do it.

Secondly, it's been raining here for 2 weeks straight, so since you just visited I feel the need to point out that it does NOT usually rain like this - this isn't Seattle, after all...

This is completely true, I was about to say something about the bussing system myself. Plainly put, it sucks…but it is free to Pitt students so its somewhat of a trade off. Also OP, something I’ve found out that most ppl don’t realize is that the nightlife/bar scene isn’t in downtown Pittsburgh, its across the river in Southside…be sure to go there when you hit up pittsburgh

[sdv]

2 points of clarification though: firstly, it's true that you don't NEED a car, but the Pittsburgh bus system isn't exactly amazing (not sure who said it was better than the DC metro, but that's definitely NOT the case). The most difficult aspect of the bus system is the fact that, from Oakland, you can get downtown but nowhere else. If you're planning on doing all of your living, studying, and drinking in Oakland/downtown, you're ok, but if you have any desire to get to the suburbs, it's a bit of a pain in the ass procedure. With that said, I know a lot of people who do it.

Secondly, it's been raining here for 2 weeks straight, so since you just visited I feel the need to point out that it does NOT usually rain like this - this isn't Seattle, after all...

This is completely true, I was about to say something about the bussing system myself. Plainly put, it sucks…but it is free to Pitt students so its somewhat of a trade off. Also OP, something I’ve found out that most ppl don’t realize is that the nightlife/bar scene isn’t in downtown Pittsburgh, its across the river in Southside…be sure to go there when you hit up pittsburgh

true. The south side is kind of like Nashville but dirtier. Free tip: don't go to Station Square. The drinks are 3 times the price and it's mostly for new-to-the-area college kids who don't know better than to pay $8 for a corona.