Penn w/ Wharton Certificate vs. UVA w/ Law & Business Prog. Forum

[MBH124]

It's come down to these two...

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this comparison in a vacuum. No money issues. No location issues. etc etc. etc.

What I'm most concerned with is career prospects and job placement. I see myself doing some type of corporate work or biglaw work down the road with a potential career change way down the road.

At Penn, along with the JD, I would complete the certificate program at Wharton in Business and Public Policy. I think the Wharton name would travel well and be a great boost.

At UVA I would follow the Law and Business Program which is not a separate certificate program but more of a track. UVA is a great name within the legal field but not necessarily as recognized by outsiders. This would be a factor if I were to at some point transition to a career outside of the law.

Please comment and also feel free to disagree with any of my assumptions.

THANKS.

[thickfreakness]

Darden's a good business school but it can't touch the Wharton name. I'd take the UPenn combo here, if we're strictly talking about job placement and future career prospects.

[PDaddy]

No question...Penn-Wharton > UVA-Darden

I love UVA, but it's starting to look slightly overrated to me, given its tactics of late and the fact that one of my friends, a URM who is a top 25-50% student there, will be attending her last class tomorrow...w/o a job! UVA grads without jobs...that has me reconsidering my choice to attend law school at all this year.

[MBH124]

Thank you for the comments.

Mind you, this is not the JD/MBA program I'm talking about. Darden's actually not even involved in the UVA Law and Business Program.

[fortissimo]

No question...Penn-Wharton > UVA-Darden

I love UVA, but it's starting to look slightly overrated to me, given its tactics of late and the fact that one of my friends, a URM who is a top 25-50% student there, will be attending her last class tomorrow...w/o a job! UVA grads without jobs...that has me reconsidering my choice to attend law school at all this year.

URM? Top 20%? No job? Was she no offered after 2L SA?

[oneforship]

No question...Penn-Wharton > UVA-Darden

I love UVA, but it's starting to look slightly overrated to me, given its tactics of late and the fact that one of my friends, a URM who is a top 25-50% student there, will be attending her last class tomorrow...w/o a job! UVA grads without jobs...that has me reconsidering my choice to attend law school at all this year.

URM? Top 20%? No job? Was she no offered after 2L SA?

Maybe this has more to do with the person in question, and less to do with UVA.

Regardless, Penn + Wharton is TCR.

[underachiever]

Penn and Wharton (That name means a lot)

...However if you wanted a full MBA you can get into The Business school at UVA w/o a gmat score (using LSAT score instead) but you need a gmat to get into the joint MBA program at Wharton

[fortissimo]

Let's be honest though, "Wharton certificate..." Seriously? I don't think MBAs take a "certificate" seriously. I don't have an MBA and a "certificate" sounds like BS to me. Instead I'd probably think you were rejected from Wharton. So I don't think either will help that much, but Penn's bigger name outside of law may help if you want to switch careers.

[Aberzombie1892]

Let's be honest though, "Wharton certificate..." Seriously? I don't think MBAs take a "certificate" seriously. I don't have an MBA and a "certificate" sounds like BS to me. Instead I'd probably think you were rejected from Wharton. So I don't think either will help that much, but Penn's bigger name outside of law may help if you want to switch careers.

I agree completely.

Don't let the "business" programs in law school fool you.

If you want an MBA, get one.

Otherwise do not allow these programs to sway your opinion of which school to choose.

Since you are interested in business, I vote Penn and Wharton (MBA program) joint degree.

[splinter23x]

I actually think a Wharton certificate would have some value. Maybe not MBA value, but still value. Plus I think Penn Law is better than UVA Law regardless.

[epyon]

Better how? At NYC biglaw?

[thickfreakness]

I actually think a Wharton certificate would have some value. Maybe not MBA value, but still value. Plus I think Penn Law is better than UVA Law regardless.

First part of this post is true. Obviously a certificate won't mean jack when compared with an MBA, but OP didn't ask us to evaluate MBA options at the two schools. However, if we're strictly comparing the two certificates or law and business programs, I think it's clear that Penn's has the advantage.

[MBH124]

The Wharton Certificate program is definitely a great program but obviously not of the same value as an MBA.

I was considering an MBA but wasn't sure I wanted to get too bogged down in Corp Finance, Accounting, etc. I'm really in law school to focus on law. This Wharton certificate or alternatively UVA Law and Business program seem like solid compromises.

[jnorsky]

First of all, UVA law has a shit ton of prestige outside of law, Penn may have the edge though due to the Ivy name and wharton. I love the lay prestige arguments, but every single person I know that work for I banks, or doctors, or engineers all think UVA and Penn are ridiculously good law schools. You are going to a top ten law school and anyone that will matter to your career will understand and respect that. I know people are going to disagree with this but I havent met one person that is successful, from prop traders on wall street to the guy that did surgery on my ankle when I broke it, that arent impressed by UVA or Penn law so dont make your choice based on that.

Second, having a certificate from Wharton doesn't do anything to your prospects, same with the law and business program at UVA. Do not chose the school you want to go to based on these two things. While studying at Wharton would be great for networking, learning from great business minds, etc, you are going to law school. You should choose the place that you feel most comfortable and feel you can succeed. That being said, in terms of corporate law, Penn places slightly better at the elite firms in NY and UVA places better at the litigation firms in DC. But both place well everywhere.

To say UVA law is overrated is a joke, people here are in there own world to think either one of these schools is overrated, they are peer schools, great schools and if I were you, I would not be taking advice on where to spend the next three years of my life and 200K of my money from kids on an internet forum that have no clue wtf they are talking about half the time.... including me.

Do what you feel dude.

[showNprove]

Do not go to Penn simply to get the Wharton Certificate. It's worthless (on its face, but may have educational value, just like any law/business program). No corporate firm is going to hire you because you took some classes at Wharton: if they hire you, it will be because you went to Penn Law.

Look more deeply into the programs themselves and see which one will be of more value to you, because neither one will be of particular value to your employers by name alone. It's a matter of what you get out of the program and how you can communicate that in interviews, not the simple fact that you were in it.

[romothesavior]

First of all, UVA law has a shit ton of prestige outside of law, Penn may have the edge though due to the Ivy name and wharton. I love the lay prestige arguments, but every single person I know that work for I banks, or doctors, or engineers all think UVA and Penn are ridiculously good law schools. You are going to a top ten law school and anyone that will matter to your career will understand and respect that. I know people are going to disagree with this but I havent met one person that is successful, from prop traders on wall street to the guy that did surgery on my ankle when I broke it, that arent impressed by UVA or Penn law so dont make your choice based on that.

Second, having a certificate from Wharton doesn't do anything to your prospects, same with the law and business program at UVA. Do not chose the school you want to go to based on these two things. While studying at Wharton would be great for networking, learning from great business minds, etc, you are going to law school. You should choose the place that you feel most comfortable and feel you can succeed. That being said, in terms of corporate law, Penn places slightly better at the elite firms in NY and UVA places better at the litigation firms in DC. But both place well everywhere.

To say UVA law is overrated is a joke, people here are in there own world to think either one of these schools is overrated, they are peer schools, great schools and if I were you, I would not be taking advice on where to spend the next three years of my life and 200K of my money from kids on an internet forum that have no clue wtf they are talking about half the time.... including me.

Do what you feel dude.

Umm, who said that?

[vanwinkle]

Do not go to Penn simply to get the Wharton Certificate. It's worthless (on its face, but may have educational value, just like any law/business program). No corporate firm is going to hire you because you took some classes at Wharton: if they hire you, it will be because you went to Penn Law.

TITCR. Personally I think the Law and Business program is a great thing here at UVA as an educational tool, it's something you can put on your resume and use as a bullet point to sell yourself, but that's all it is, just like the Wharton certificate. Employers are going to be smart enough to see that Wharton certificate for what it is, and only that. I would recommend not basing your decision on this, because either way you're getting a program that is a plus for you but a rather small one. It's a wash.

Decide on other things (like what matters more to you, cheesesteaks or softball).

[MusicalChairs]

The two law schools are peers. Both would offer a fine law school education. Pick the best fit for you.

Also, the real value to you of either the certificate at Penn or the program at UVA probably depends greatly on what you did before law school. Chances are that no sophisticated employer would see either one as anything other than a gloss on your law school academic performance.

If you don't do very well in law school no certificate or program will get you a BigLaw job. If you do very well in law school, then your certificate or program is another plus for you.

[thickfreakness]

Decide on other things (like what matters more to you, cheesesteaks or softball).

Obviously cheesesteaks are TCR in this situation.

[vanwinkle]

Decide on other things (like what matters more to you, cheesesteaks or softball).

Obviously cheesesteaks are TCR in this situation.

While I otherwise love UVA and am glad I came here, cheesesteaks are indeed TCR.

[MBH124]

Thanks for your help on this one. I live in Philadelphia now so I know the power of the cheesesteak.

[PopCopyManager]

Penn and Wharton (That name means a lot)

...However if you wanted a full MBA you can get into The Business school at UVA w/o a gmat score (using LSAT score instead) but you need a gmat to get into the joint MBA program at Wharton

Where did you read that you don't have to take the GMAT to get into Darden (to do a JD/MBA)? I can't find that info on their website.

[oneforship]

Penn and Wharton (That name means a lot)

...However if you wanted a full MBA you can get into The Business school at UVA w/o a gmat score (using LSAT score instead) but you need a gmat to get into the joint MBA program at Wharton

Where did you read that you don't have to take the GMAT to get into Darden (to do a JD/MBA)? I can't find that info on their website.

It is something new this year (I believe) that they will be giving a try. They explained it to the law students at ASW when I was there.

[PopCopyManager]

Can you apply during your first year at school? Obviously we will have already missed the application deadline as of ASW. I'm super interested, sorry to threadjack!



In responding to the OP's question - I agree with what has been said here. Take the best fit / best financial aid. I don't consider Penn to be significantly better than UVA, and prefer UVA's environment/atmosphere hands down to Penn (or Philly for that matter).

I think as cool as it would be to have "Wharton" on your resume, once someone sees that it is a certificate, people will become skeptical.

[oneforship]

Can you apply during your first year at school? Obviously we will have already missed the application deadline as of ASW. I'm super interested, sorry to threadjack!

Yes, I believe the waiver of GMAT is only for those who are 1Ls at UVA, and then applying to the joint-program. Don't take my word as gospel, though.