Yale JD vs. Stanford JD/MBA vs. Harvard JD
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:11 am
Been a lurker here for several months, and would genuinely appreciate the perspective of some people on this board. This is, admittedly, not for me, but for someone I know well (who does not post here). And he/she fully realizes that he/she is extremely fortunate to have these options. Would appreciate your thoughts:
The decision is between Yale Law, Stanford JD/MBA, and Harvard Law. I have lurked and read enough posts here to know that people will want to know about the person's interests, preferences and goals. I think I can summarize them as follows:
1. He/she is 75% sure of wanting to end up on the west coast. About a 25% chance of wanting to live on the East Coast, DC (in particular) or NYC (Wall Street), but more likely wants to end up out west. Has experienced both the East and West coasts, in major metropolitan areas.
2. He/she believes that they would like to start out practicing corporate law, but plans to keep an open mind entering law school. Not ruling out litigation, just leaning towards corporate work at this point based on interests and previous work experience. Does not plan on immediately trying to go directly into business (which some people do from each of the choices above).
3. He/she is 90% sure they do not want to pursue academia. Will keep an open mind about this, and knows that option is definitely available from all three of the law schools under consideration, but feels he/she will probably spend most of their career practicing law (and, perhaps later, possibly in a business-related field). If the opportunity arose, much later in their career, to teach in some adjunct-type role (part-time, while continuing his/her main career) at a local law school, they would probably be interested, but main focus would not be pursuing a tenured teaching track at a major law school straight out of graduate school.
4. Was only able to apply to the Stanford Business School, and did not apply to Harvard Business School or to Yale's Business School (School of Management/SOM?). Main reason was the huge time commitment involved in putting together the B-School applications and all the essays for business school, which, as I understand it, is MUCH more involved and time-consuming than for law school. The law school applications were his/her main priority, and was working on a major project at work when simultaneously working on the Stanford MBA application. Therefore, if he/she chose Harvard Law, they would plan to apply to the Harvard Business School during the first year of law school. He/she was thrilled that they were accepted to Stanford's Business School--as they were for each of the admissions to Y, S, and H Law. Acceptance rate for the Stanford Business School is about the same as the acceptance rate for Yale Law and for Stanford Law (i.e., about 8% or less). Apparently, when it comes to Stanford and Harvard Business Schools, only a small fraction are accepted by both schools. From this person's work experience, he/she knows a number of admitted students who were accepted at Harvard B-School and outright rejected at Stanford B-School, and vice versa. Therefore, he/she believes that getting into Harvard B-School during first year at Harvard Law would definitely not be a "given."
5. If he/she chooses Yale Law, they will NOT apply to the Yale (School of Management/SOM) B-School during the first year of law school (unlike at Harvard) to try and do the joint program there. He/she believes, and basically all of his/her mentors tell him, that Yale's MBA program is definitely not on par with--nor nearly as highly regarded as--the programs at Stanford and Harvard. He/she also had the strong sense when visiting Yale and talking to students, and also from the input of practicing lawyers (and even Wall Street types), that the Yale SOM is definitely not on the same level as Yale Law. As a result, he/she believes that the joint degree from Yale would actually somewhat diminish and detract from the value of the pure Yale Law degree, which is obviously held in very high regard. I'm just telling you what he/she believes and apparently has been advised by people in the venture capital, private equity, and Wall Street communities. Therefore, he/she would only consider the JD/MBA at Stanford or Harvard. At Yale, would therefore pursue purely the JD. At Harvard, if he/she was not admitted to the Business School during first year, would obviously just pursue the JD.
6. He/she is attracted to the JD/MBA programs at both Stanford and Harvard because although he/she thinks they would enjoy practicing corporate law (and have some work experience in both law and business from which they base that view), they think it possible that at some point into their career, they may want to try and transition over to the business-side (specifically venture capital or private equity, where they have some junior work experience). Both Stanford and Harvard seem very strong in those areas, as well as the more traditional Wall Street positions, the latter of which interests him/her less than the former). They know any transition would NOT be easy mid- or even early-career, but besides thinking he/she would genuinely enjoy the MBA curriculum, they also believe an MBA from either could help in moving to a venture (or private equity) fund (or some other management/business role) down the line, particularly from Stanford or Harvard B-Schools. But, unlike some of his/her friends at work, he/she is confident that he/she does not want to pursue the business-side immediately out of graduate school. He/she wants to be a practicing lawyer, but could see himself/herself possibly wanting to try (as tough as it might be) and move to a fund after practicing corporate (or some other type of transactional law) for several years. If he/she chooses litigation, it would likely be far more difficult, but a "mid-career" switch, with an MBA from either of those two, would still be possible. And if he/she never left law, they also believe it would be a net plus having a Stanford (or Harvard) MBA practicing corporate law, whether at a firm or in-house, but particularly the latter.
7. Has visited all the schools referenced (not the admitted-students programs, but at least while school was in session at each), and apparently sees the pluses and minuses of each, and sees why each has its appeal, and how each is somewhat unique. Looked at Harvard Law, and did visit the business school to get a feel for the student body. Was impressed with the caliber of students at every school (including the Business Schools) he/she visited. When pressed, apparently liked the more intimate feel at Yale and Stanford Law Schools, smaller classes, more interaction with professors. Felt that was also true for Stanford Business School. However, did like Cambridge and Palo Alto more than New Haven.
8. Would not consider, which someone apparently mentioned to him/her, the idea of possibly pursuing the JD at Yale and the MBA at Stanford. Not even sure this is possible any more (probably not), with Yale now apparently adopting its own 3-year JD/MBA (while Stanford's and Harvard's JD/MBA are each 4 years). But even if it were possible, he/she would not consider it, and would not want the disruption and difficulty of having to literally move (find a new place to live) and fly back and forth across the country every 8 or 9 weeks (every quarter) during the final two years of graduate school.
9. For purposes of the decision, he/she has chosen not to consider the debt/cost of each school for purposes of making a decision (consider that factor neutral when voting in the poll), and that includes the cost of the additional year at Stanford or Harvard to earn the JD and the MBA. He/she thinks the additional 1-year cost for the MBA at both of those 2 schools is worth it. (For what it's worth, to you US News ranking gurus, the Stanford and Harvard Business Schools have apparently finished #1 and #2 in the US News ranking--sometimes alternating positions or tying--every year since US News started publishing Business School rankings in the very early 1990s. In the rankings just released, it's my understanding that they tied for #1.) He/she simply wants to make the best choice, regardless of cost, or COL at each location.
That's it. Tried to provide all relevant information, based on other threads I've read, and the questions I've seen asked by posters. It's not my decision, and he/she certainly has sought, and is still seeking, input from others established in their careers. But I thought it worth posting, as I've seen what I felt were some good perspectives/recommendations and views expressed here over the last couple months covering a variety of scenarios, and was curious to tap into any thoughts (as decision time nears) people might have.
The decision is between Yale Law, Stanford JD/MBA, and Harvard Law. I have lurked and read enough posts here to know that people will want to know about the person's interests, preferences and goals. I think I can summarize them as follows:
1. He/she is 75% sure of wanting to end up on the west coast. About a 25% chance of wanting to live on the East Coast, DC (in particular) or NYC (Wall Street), but more likely wants to end up out west. Has experienced both the East and West coasts, in major metropolitan areas.
2. He/she believes that they would like to start out practicing corporate law, but plans to keep an open mind entering law school. Not ruling out litigation, just leaning towards corporate work at this point based on interests and previous work experience. Does not plan on immediately trying to go directly into business (which some people do from each of the choices above).
3. He/she is 90% sure they do not want to pursue academia. Will keep an open mind about this, and knows that option is definitely available from all three of the law schools under consideration, but feels he/she will probably spend most of their career practicing law (and, perhaps later, possibly in a business-related field). If the opportunity arose, much later in their career, to teach in some adjunct-type role (part-time, while continuing his/her main career) at a local law school, they would probably be interested, but main focus would not be pursuing a tenured teaching track at a major law school straight out of graduate school.
4. Was only able to apply to the Stanford Business School, and did not apply to Harvard Business School or to Yale's Business School (School of Management/SOM?). Main reason was the huge time commitment involved in putting together the B-School applications and all the essays for business school, which, as I understand it, is MUCH more involved and time-consuming than for law school. The law school applications were his/her main priority, and was working on a major project at work when simultaneously working on the Stanford MBA application. Therefore, if he/she chose Harvard Law, they would plan to apply to the Harvard Business School during the first year of law school. He/she was thrilled that they were accepted to Stanford's Business School--as they were for each of the admissions to Y, S, and H Law. Acceptance rate for the Stanford Business School is about the same as the acceptance rate for Yale Law and for Stanford Law (i.e., about 8% or less). Apparently, when it comes to Stanford and Harvard Business Schools, only a small fraction are accepted by both schools. From this person's work experience, he/she knows a number of admitted students who were accepted at Harvard B-School and outright rejected at Stanford B-School, and vice versa. Therefore, he/she believes that getting into Harvard B-School during first year at Harvard Law would definitely not be a "given."
5. If he/she chooses Yale Law, they will NOT apply to the Yale (School of Management/SOM) B-School during the first year of law school (unlike at Harvard) to try and do the joint program there. He/she believes, and basically all of his/her mentors tell him, that Yale's MBA program is definitely not on par with--nor nearly as highly regarded as--the programs at Stanford and Harvard. He/she also had the strong sense when visiting Yale and talking to students, and also from the input of practicing lawyers (and even Wall Street types), that the Yale SOM is definitely not on the same level as Yale Law. As a result, he/she believes that the joint degree from Yale would actually somewhat diminish and detract from the value of the pure Yale Law degree, which is obviously held in very high regard. I'm just telling you what he/she believes and apparently has been advised by people in the venture capital, private equity, and Wall Street communities. Therefore, he/she would only consider the JD/MBA at Stanford or Harvard. At Yale, would therefore pursue purely the JD. At Harvard, if he/she was not admitted to the Business School during first year, would obviously just pursue the JD.
6. He/she is attracted to the JD/MBA programs at both Stanford and Harvard because although he/she thinks they would enjoy practicing corporate law (and have some work experience in both law and business from which they base that view), they think it possible that at some point into their career, they may want to try and transition over to the business-side (specifically venture capital or private equity, where they have some junior work experience). Both Stanford and Harvard seem very strong in those areas, as well as the more traditional Wall Street positions, the latter of which interests him/her less than the former). They know any transition would NOT be easy mid- or even early-career, but besides thinking he/she would genuinely enjoy the MBA curriculum, they also believe an MBA from either could help in moving to a venture (or private equity) fund (or some other management/business role) down the line, particularly from Stanford or Harvard B-Schools. But, unlike some of his/her friends at work, he/she is confident that he/she does not want to pursue the business-side immediately out of graduate school. He/she wants to be a practicing lawyer, but could see himself/herself possibly wanting to try (as tough as it might be) and move to a fund after practicing corporate (or some other type of transactional law) for several years. If he/she chooses litigation, it would likely be far more difficult, but a "mid-career" switch, with an MBA from either of those two, would still be possible. And if he/she never left law, they also believe it would be a net plus having a Stanford (or Harvard) MBA practicing corporate law, whether at a firm or in-house, but particularly the latter.
7. Has visited all the schools referenced (not the admitted-students programs, but at least while school was in session at each), and apparently sees the pluses and minuses of each, and sees why each has its appeal, and how each is somewhat unique. Looked at Harvard Law, and did visit the business school to get a feel for the student body. Was impressed with the caliber of students at every school (including the Business Schools) he/she visited. When pressed, apparently liked the more intimate feel at Yale and Stanford Law Schools, smaller classes, more interaction with professors. Felt that was also true for Stanford Business School. However, did like Cambridge and Palo Alto more than New Haven.
8. Would not consider, which someone apparently mentioned to him/her, the idea of possibly pursuing the JD at Yale and the MBA at Stanford. Not even sure this is possible any more (probably not), with Yale now apparently adopting its own 3-year JD/MBA (while Stanford's and Harvard's JD/MBA are each 4 years). But even if it were possible, he/she would not consider it, and would not want the disruption and difficulty of having to literally move (find a new place to live) and fly back and forth across the country every 8 or 9 weeks (every quarter) during the final two years of graduate school.
9. For purposes of the decision, he/she has chosen not to consider the debt/cost of each school for purposes of making a decision (consider that factor neutral when voting in the poll), and that includes the cost of the additional year at Stanford or Harvard to earn the JD and the MBA. He/she thinks the additional 1-year cost for the MBA at both of those 2 schools is worth it. (For what it's worth, to you US News ranking gurus, the Stanford and Harvard Business Schools have apparently finished #1 and #2 in the US News ranking--sometimes alternating positions or tying--every year since US News started publishing Business School rankings in the very early 1990s. In the rankings just released, it's my understanding that they tied for #1.) He/she simply wants to make the best choice, regardless of cost, or COL at each location.
That's it. Tried to provide all relevant information, based on other threads I've read, and the questions I've seen asked by posters. It's not my decision, and he/she certainly has sought, and is still seeking, input from others established in their careers. But I thought it worth posting, as I've seen what I felt were some good perspectives/recommendations and views expressed here over the last couple months covering a variety of scenarios, and was curious to tap into any thoughts (as decision time nears) people might have.
