Top Law Schools

I am wondering if anyone else has made a decision like this. Personally, I found Fordham to be a great school. But I have always liked GW Law's location, size, campus, etc... and felt that they had stronger programs. Still, I was leaning on Fordham because of its strength in the NY market, but with the new rankings coming out, it just seemed like madness--why would I go to the school that is dropping consistently in the rankings (now down to 34), and not the school that is now a T-20?

In Before This Gets Ugly.

OP, you didn't want to be in New York did you?

Grilled cheese used to be my 3rd favorite sandwich, but I have now changed its ranking to 7, so I don't eat it anymore.

Good choice.

I don't get why you guys think that the US News Rankings won't influence employers. I don't mean an employer is going to go "well, GW=20, Fordham=34, therefore, I take the GW guy", but they might think, okay, GW Law is advancing in the rankings and seems to be the better school, so lets have a preference for that law school this year over Fordham.

I just feel like graduating from a now not even T-30 school=entering a world of even more intense competition for NY jobs.

And yes, I do want NY law, and I know GW Law can provide that. It isn't NY or bust though--its "job or bust". Working in D.C. would not be a bad option if the pay is good.

champ33 wrote:Grilled cheese used to be my 3rd favorite sandwich, but I have now changed its ranking to 7, so I don't eat it anymore.

I see what you did there

There are plenty of times when GW>Fordham (actually, all of the time unless you want NYC). Your reason is not one of them.

Great decision. GW >>>> Fordham, in my humble opinion.

I gave plenty of reasons, but cited the rankings as the final reason that pushed me towards choosing GW Law. I'm pretty much waiting on Cornell at this point, which of course I would attend over GW Law.

GermX wrote:I don't get why you guys think that the US News Rankings won't influence employers. I don't mean an employer is going to go "well, GW=20, Fordham=34, therefore, I take the GW guy", but they might think, okay, GW Law is advancing in the rankings and seems to be the better school, so lets have a preference for that law school this year over Fordham.

I just feel like graduating from a now not even T-30 school=entering a world of even more intense competition for NY jobs.

And yes, I do want NY law, and I know GW Law can provide that. It isn't NY or bust though--its "job or bust". Working in D.C. would not be a bad option if the pay is good.

GW has always been a T20 school. They place like a T20, they are viewed as T20 by employers and peers, and they will continue to be T20 calibur regardless of whether they drop in the rankings next year.

GW's "drop" last year was a result of a change in US News rankings criteria when they started including part time scores. Go look at where GW has traditionally been. They are not on an "upward swing." They simply returned where they belong.

Do your homework before you make ridiculously stupid decisions (and comments) regarding your future.

I sincerely hope this is a flame. I too was on the fence with GWU and Fordham--though I ended up deciding on BU. Fordham is not free-falling in the rankings...despite this year they are rising. USNWR chose to include for the first time, part time programs....GWU and Fordham both had substantial ones and took a hit because of it--unlike GWU, Fordham has continued theirs...GWU cut theirs drastically creating the ratings rise. It doesn't matter if Fordham is T10, T20, T30 or T50--because it is still the third best law school in the NYC market which is the largest market in the country. As long as Fordham is better than Cardozo and Brooklyn, it's graduates will place well. If you look at things like NLJ & Vault placement, and leiter's stuff, you will see that fordham is a far better school in many aspects other than USNWR.

GWU on the other hand, is tied for third in a much smaller legal market. GULC, and UVA outplace it handedly, and William and Mary and Washington and Lee compete heavily for the same jobs---they are far closer to GWU than a school like Cardozo is to Fordham.

That said, there are many reasons to choose GWU. It seems like you haven't used them.

IBOS

GermX wrote:I am wondering if anyone else has made a decision like this. Personally, I found Fordham to be a great school. But I have always liked GW Law's location, size, campus, etc... and felt that they had stronger programs. Still, I was leaning on Fordham because of its strength in the NY market, but with the new rankings coming out, it just seemed like madness--why would I go to the school that is dropping consistently in the rankings (now down to 34), and not the school that is now a T-20?

Judging by your behavior in the Cornell thread, I am going to kick the living shit out of you at some point during the year; especially if you're in my section. I suggest you being praying now, for your own safety. Just letting you know in advance.


Also, now at least I know with absolute certainty that I won't be at the bottom of my class.

D. H2Oman wrote:IBOS

God dammit... I'm always too slow. I'm never "IBSSIBOS" (In before someone says IBOS)

champ33 wrote:Grilled cheese used to be my 3rd favorite sandwich, but I have now changed its ranking to 7, so I don't eat it anymore.

I lol'd.

Fordham's overall score remains the same as it was last year, and the school will soon be trimming its part time program, just as GW did. I personally think it was a crappy policy decision on the part of both schools, but the rankings obviously matter, so I understand why they did it. Fordham will likely move up in next year's rankings, just for cutting the PT program in half.

GermX wrote:I gave plenty of reasons, but cited the rankings as the final reason that pushed me towards choosing GW Law. I'm pretty much waiting on Cornell at this point, which of course I would attend over GW Law.

Oh, so you haven't actually decided yet? Thank God. Listen up.

No one who is making employment decisions gives one hoot about the rankings. Except to the degree to which they reflect shifts in the quality of students one school or another gets.

In the case of Fordham and GW, despite both schools much ballyhooed volatility in US News rankings in recent years, they have gotten the same caliber of students in their doors throughout, and that is all that matters for employers. They are the exact same schools they were 1, 3, 5 years ago.

In terms of all-else-being-equal placement power, I think I would take GW, but the two schools are very close. However, if you want to work in New York, they are not close. Fordham has a massive NYC alumni base, and has the whole spectrum of big time NYC firms at their OCI. GW does not have these things.

If you want New York, go to Fordham. Simple as that. Unless there are scholarship discrepancies you aren't telling us about.

Fordham crushes GW in NYC. There's no comparison there. This may be rather obvious, but if you look at any firm in New York, Fordham is well represented and GW may or may not have representation. If you know you want to be in NYC, I think going to Fordham is a safer bet, even with the very recent increased rankings disparity. GW is a good school, and I presumed that they would rebound from that temporary drop last year, but I think if someone is set on NYC for their career, Fordham is the better option. For someone who thinks they might want to be in New York, but is not certain, GW may be the better call as it has more geographic reach (but not an enormous amount) than Fordham; and when I say that, I mean greater reach on the east coast. Both schools get dicey the further west you go. I don't think the rankings really have any effect on Fordham's job placement, since Fordham is such a known commodity in NYC with such a strong and prevalent alumni network. Unlike Columbia or NYU grads that go all over the country, Fordham grads will mostly (by choice or not) stay in the NY area.

Always Credited wrote:

GermX wrote:I am wondering if anyone else has made a decision like this. Personally, I found Fordham to be a great school. But I have always liked GW Law's location, size, campus, etc... and felt that they had stronger programs. Still, I was leaning on Fordham because of its strength in the NY market, but with the new rankings coming out, it just seemed like madness--why would I go to the school that is dropping consistently in the rankings (now down to 34), and not the school that is now a T-20?

Judging by your behavior in the Cornell thread, I am going to kick the living shit out of you at some point during the year; especially if you're in my section. I suggest you being praying now, for your own safety. Just letting you know in advance.

Angry much today?

NYC = Falling, has-been legal market of the past

DC = Rising, shining legal market of the future



(figure I'd stoke the fire a bit)

Do your homework before you make ridiculously stupid decisions (and comments) regarding your future.

So picking GW Law over Fordham= ridiculously stupid decision? lol.

thedogship wrote:Fordham crushes GW in NYC. There's no comparison there. This may be rather obvious, but if you look at any firm in New York, Fordham is well represented and GW may or may not have representation. If you know you want to be in NYC, I think going to Fordham is a safer bet, even with the very recent increased rankings disparity. GW is a good school, and I presumed that they would rebound from that temporary drop last year, but I think if someone is set on NYC for their career, Fordham is the better option. For someone who thinks they might want to be in New York, but is not certain, GW may be the better call as it has more geographic reach (but not an enormous amount) than Fordham; and when I say that, I mean greater reach on the east coast. Both schools get dicey the further west you go. I don't think the rankings really have any effect on Fordham's job placement, since Fordham is such a known commodity in NYC with such a strong and prevalent alumni network. Unlike Columbia or NYU grads that go all over the country, Fordham grads will mostly (by choice or not) stay in the NY area.

Very credited. As for self selection, 96% of incoming Fordham students indicated NYC was their first choice market.

clintonius wrote:

Always Credited wrote:

GermX wrote:I am wondering if anyone else has made a decision like this. Personally, I found Fordham to be a great school. But I have always liked GW Law's location, size, campus, etc... and felt that they had stronger programs. Still, I was leaning on Fordham because of its strength in the NY market, but with the new rankings coming out, it just seemed like madness--why would I go to the school that is dropping consistently in the rankings (now down to 34), and not the school that is now a T-20?

Judging by your behavior in the Cornell thread, I am going to kick the living shit out of you at some point during the year; especially if you're in my section. I suggest you being praying now, for your own safety. Just letting you know in advance.

Angry much today?

--ImageRemoved--

But from what I understand, overall employment for GW seems to be stronger, I'e heard horror stories out of Fordham with 50% of students having to seriously struggle for jobs in NYC.

GermX wrote:But from what I understand, overall employment for GW seems to be stronger, I'e heard horror stories out of Fordham with 50% of students having to seriously struggle for jobs in NYC.

Hi. This is the economy. Have we met?

^ Yes we have, which is why I want to go to a T-20 school that gives me a better chance at surviving this economy than a school that isn't even in the T-30 anymore. Just saying.