Top Law Schools

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I don't think it's at all safe to think you'd do much better at UVA over Columbia; however, if you're worried about your work ethic in general, then it might be safer to go with the school which will leave you with much less of a debt burden.

If you were jockeying for Biglaw in NYC specifically, there'd be a stronger argument for Columbia...but given your circumstances, is it really worth an extra $66k? Tough call. Good luck -- luckily, there's not a wrong choice.

Some high class problems you got there...

I voted Columbia, but that's really just personal preference. UVA makes more sense risk-wise if you are really worried about how you will perform in law school (less debt, still decent employment prospects), but you will definitely have to try. Come on, it's still a top ten law school.

And LSAT scores aren't exactly a great predictor of future law school performance, I would think work ethic and motivation are probably equally or more important once you get to that level.

WtRMyChances wrote:I've struggled with my work ethic for a pretty long time, and even though my LSAT score suggests that I'm capable of succeeding at Columbia I can't help wondering if I will fall behind my peers. At UVA, meanwhile, I got the impression that I was on the "brighter" end of the scale - as in, I could definitely place highly if I tried. Or perhaps I'm overexaggerating the difference between UVA and Columbia students?

Your thought process is aggressively flawed.

1) LSAT + GPA are piss poor predictors of 1L success, and even if they weren't,
2) The actual difference between the entering classes at UVA and Columbia is tiny.

#1 is honestly the most important. You're not going to go to a lower ranked school and pwn everyone even if it's actually a significant drop. It just doesn't work that way. Law school is hard in entirely different ways than college or the LSAT; the competition is like nothing you've ever faced before.

/cranky 1L rant about 0Ls predicting their law school performance

columbia. the name is a lot more than uva. duh.

Columbia.

disco_barred wrote:

WtRMyChances wrote:I've struggled with my work ethic for a pretty long time, and even though my LSAT score suggests that I'm capable of succeeding at Columbia I can't help wondering if I will fall behind my peers. At UVA, meanwhile, I got the impression that I was on the "brighter" end of the scale - as in, I could definitely place highly if I tried. Or perhaps I'm overexaggerating the difference between UVA and Columbia students?

Your thought process is aggressively flawed.

1) LSAT + GPA are piss poor predictors of 1L success, and even if they weren't,
2) The actual difference between the entering classes at UVA and Columbia is tiny.

#1 is honestly the most important. You're not going to go to a lower ranked school and pwn everyone even if it's actually a significant drop. It just doesn't work that way. Law school is hard in entirely different ways than college or the LSAT; the competition is like nothing you've ever faced before.

/cranky 1L rant about 0Ls predicting their law school performance

So - in your opinion - is the credited move attending Columbia because I'll place roughly the same there as I will at UVA, or deferring law school and thinking up an action plan/finding a job to cure my work-ethic issues?

WtRMyChances wrote:

disco_barred wrote:

WtRMyChances wrote:I've struggled with my work ethic for a pretty long time, and even though my LSAT score suggests that I'm capable of succeeding at Columbia I can't help wondering if I will fall behind my peers. At UVA, meanwhile, I got the impression that I was on the "brighter" end of the scale - as in, I could definitely place highly if I tried. Or perhaps I'm overexaggerating the difference between UVA and Columbia students?

Your thought process is aggressively flawed.

1) LSAT + GPA are piss poor predictors of 1L success, and even if they weren't,
2) The actual difference between the entering classes at UVA and Columbia is tiny.

#1 is honestly the most important. You're not going to go to a lower ranked school and pwn everyone even if it's actually a significant drop. It just doesn't work that way. Law school is hard in entirely different ways than college or the LSAT; the competition is like nothing you've ever faced before.

/cranky 1L rant about 0Ls predicting their law school performance

So - in your opinion - is the credited move attending Columbia because I'll place roughly the same there as I will at UVA, or deferring law school and thinking up an action plan/finding a job to cure my work-ethic issues?

My point was mostly 'this is bad reasoning, ignore it' and less a well formulated plan.

At this point your career goals should control. If NYC biglaw is even a little more attractive than alternatives, Columbia FTW.

If DC biglaw, government work, or clerking are high on your list then the money from VA could make the difference since VA places much more on par with Columbia in those areas.

If you don't know what you want to do... I mean, you really can't go wrong either way. Columbia has a bit more certainty in these rough times.

With respect to work ethic... you're just going to have to pick it up somehow, can't tell you how to handle that one, lol

Very simply put: It is stupid to think you would do significantly better at UVA than CLS.

The B range is 35% of the entire class, B+ is 25%. If you're in the middle of CLS's B range due to effort/etc, you would have to think you'd do +25% class rank better to get to the middle of a B+.
You think UVA is 25% dumber than CLS? I pimp CLS pretty hard around here, and my classmates are pretty ridiculous people smart-wise, but let's be realistic. No. Not even close.

Now, on top of that, you have to consider the perception of a UVA B+ vs a CLS B on the west coast and factor that in... so in the end, you'd have to perform something like +50% better classrank-wise at UVA to make it worth it. That's not even within the realm of what diff between CLS/UVA students.

(This is assuming that LSAT/GPA is even a halfway decent indicator of lawschool performance to begin with).

Which describes you more: smug and stuffy Ivy-leaguer or fratty pastel-wearing douche?