Top Law Schools

Currently, I am torn between NYU with no scholarship money and UMich with 67,500 in a Deans Scholarship... calculating the total cost of room, board, and scholarships...

NYU 197,202

UMich 105,408

Currently NYU has fallen from #5 to #6 on U.S. News Rankings, UMich is still at #9

Ideally I'd like to land a corporate job in NYC, but I am open to any big (really big) U.S. city (Chicago, NYC, Boston, LA, San Fran, etc). NYU would give me more connections to NYC and would probably sell better as a brand name especially if I decided to do a JD MBA which I am considering.

UMich costs significantly less. I visited both places, and I enjoyed my stay at both about equally.

I liked the laid back attitude (relative) at UMich and felt as though I could really fit in. Their faculty seem to be really passionate and creative, and they have a great tight knit community. But there is from what I hear, a tight curve lower then most other law schools, and the name isn't as well known outside the law field, and simply not as brand name. Oh, and its so cold!

At NYU, I was even more impressed with the creativity and range of the professor (but then again, how many of those cool professors will I actually have) and was more impressed with their international relations (which is expected, although I'm not sure I'm going to go into International Relations). Although NYU claims to be relatively laid back, at least for the "top 5" in 2010, I felt that the students were much more competitive and less collegial as it was a commuter school with just a more intense atmosphere.

I'm having a really tough time deciding in the next 10 days and would really appreciate some input about my options from anyone with some insight on my situation.

Thanks!

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edit _ noticing that most have so far been for michigan (thanks for the input!) I also want to put out there UVA w/ a 90K, so for a total of 83,550 (god thats cheap in comparison) I almost ruled it out bc I thought the atmosphere wasn't quite right for someone like me but I'm not sure (i was stupid and stayed in a hostel so that might have added to the strange vibe i had). The people were great, the professors didn't impress me as much as those at NYU and Mich but like I said, probably wont be seeing much of those impressive professors anyway. Oh and area... But its a top 10 school as well, any additional input?

Close call, you can't go wrong with either.

First of all, the new rankings do not mean anything, and should not have anything to do with your decision. NYU will still be NYU and Michigan will still be Michigan. They are no closer and no further away from each other than they were last week. Also, NYU's reputation is not much better than Michigan's outside of the law, but that does not matter too much (even with the MBA thing you mention).

I think both schools will get you NY with good grades. The $90K is a big deal. Personally, I would take Michigan, but it seems like you are leaning toward NYU, which is also a valid choice.

Anyway, good luck with your choice. I vote for Michigan.

Gotta go with Michigan here at about half the total cost of NYU. Just about the only place where NYU will place measurably better than Michigan is NYC.

Michigan is a much bigger name outside of law than NYU in pretty much all fields except for the arts. It's top 10 in almost every graduate program, its sciences are pretty much all at least top 10, it has a top 6 medical school, its business school is #12. Coming from a science background, I had not heard of NYU until college and didn't know it had top programs until I looked at law school rankings. Don't let the liberal arts people fool you.

Also the legit tier 1 MBAs are from Harvard, MIT, Chicago, Penn, Northwestern, or Stanford. Our t-14 is the equivalent of their t-6. Some people don't advocate pursuing MBAs unless they are from a t-6 program.

Michigan...ftw

Michigan has higher assessment scores (usnews scores from surveys of academics, judges, and lawyers); furthermore, Michigan has a much broader placement range (network and reputation has greater national reach) and the two schools have similar clerkship and NLJ (biglaw) placement percentages.
NYU is really great for nyc but unless you are deadset on nycs biglaw nyu is a peer to penn, michigan, berkley, and virginia. In fact, to a certain degree NYU is inferior to some of those schools if you are looking outside of NYU (this is evidenced by NYU's lower assessment scores than MPVM in national surveys). In the end, Michigan places quite well in NYC so going there certainly leaves that option open. However, it also gives you good options for Chicago, DC, and California. and its costs much less.
Overall NYU and Michigan are basically peers and there is very little reason to pay 90K more for an equal product.
Also, there is no way in hell that NYU is worth 110k more than UVA. UVA is a fantastic school that has great biglaw placement and assessment scores (attesting to its brand in the legal world) way higher than NYU (closer to Chicago/Columbia/Stanford).

of Benito Cereno wrote:Michigan has higher assessment scores (usnews scores from surveys of academics, judges, and lawyers); furthermore, Michigan has a much broader placement range (network and reputation has greater national reach) and the two schools have similar clerkship and NLJ (biglaw) placement percentages.
NYU is really great for nyc but unless you are deadset on nycs biglaw nyu is a peer to penn, michigan, berkley, and virginia. In fact, to a certain degree NYU is inferior to some of those schools if you are looking outside of NYU (this is evidenced by NYU's lower assessment scores than MPVM in national surveys). In the end, Michigan places quite well in NYC so going there certainly leaves that option open. However, it also gives you good options for Chicago, DC, and California. and its costs much less.
Overall NYU and Michigan are basically peers and there is very little reason to pay 90K more for an equal product.
Also, there is no way in hell that NYU is worth 110k more than UVA. UVA is a fantastic school that has great biglaw placement and assessment scores (attesting to its brand in the legal world) way higher than NYU (closer to Chicago/Columbia/Stanford).

CCN is worlds apart from MVP, EITE.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

Why are you so sure of this?

You're citing a report that says Northwestern is better than Harvard and Yale?

Ok, how about this one?
http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... .html#more

I'm not saying that Michigan is a better school than NYU. But considering how much money OP is getting, and how close these schools appear to be in other measures--except for super prestigious NY biglaw placements, no one can dispute that NYU has a big advantage there--it seems like the smart financial choice to go with Michigan.

I'll throw my vote in for Michigan.

I had the same decision to make (including the $90k at Virginia) and I chose Michigan. But I told myself I wasn't going to pay sticker for any school outside of HYS... I'm fairly debt averse, plus I don't want to work in NYC. That said, I don't think NYU is significantly better than Michigan, especially taking the money into account.

Michigan. Maybe UVA. Not NYU.

.

beesknees wrote:Go to Michigan. $92k in repayment is almost a $1000 extra per month. And whoever said CCN was leaps and bounds over MVP is probably full of it, with the exception of academia placement. Just compare the two schools top firm and clerkship placement.

Michigan is a great school with great national placement. If you HAD to live in NYC, then maybe I could see NYU, but you seem open to any other large market, which Michigan should offer you with a decent performance. NYU doesn't seem like it could offer you much more and it costs a lot more.

+1, except that Michigan is a peer of CCN in terms of academic placement.

See, e.g., Solum's academic hiring report from last year: http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2 ... eport.html

Michigan.

.

Also, Michigan students overwhelmingly = happy students. I don't think that can be stressed enough.

beesknees wrote:

tamlyric wrote:

beesknees wrote:Go to Michigan. $92k in repayment is almost a $1000 extra per month. And whoever said CCN was leaps and bounds over MVP is probably full of it, with the exception of academia placement. Just compare the two schools top firm and clerkship placement.

Michigan is a great school with great national placement. If you HAD to live in NYC, then maybe I could see NYU, but you seem open to any other large market, which Michigan should offer you with a decent performance. NYU doesn't seem like it could offer you much more and it costs a lot more.

+1, except that Michigan is a peer of CCN in terms of academic placement.

See, e.g., Solum's academic hiring report from last year: http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2 ... eport.html

I was just trying to CMA about academia, since I've always heard Chicago is really good for academia, but I stand corrected!

So yeah, Michigan lol.

Ha! It is certainly a happy surprise for those of us considering Michigan.

tamlyric wrote:

beesknees wrote:

tamlyric wrote:

beesknees wrote:Go to Michigan. $92k in repayment is almost a $1000 extra per month. And whoever said CCN was leaps and bounds over MVP is probably full of it, with the exception of academia placement. Just compare the two schools top firm and clerkship placement.

Michigan is a great school with great national placement. If you HAD to live in NYC, then maybe I could see NYU, but you seem open to any other large market, which Michigan should offer you with a decent performance. NYU doesn't seem like it could offer you much more and it costs a lot more.

+1, except that Michigan is a peer of CCN in terms of academic placement.

See, e.g., Solum's academic hiring report from last year: http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2 ... eport.html

I was just trying to CMA about academia, since I've always heard Chicago is really good for academia, but I stand corrected!

So yeah, Michigan lol.

Ha! It is certainly a happy surprise for those of us considering Michigan.

we're talking about the weight difference between two grains of rice and a blade of grass.

of Benito Cereno wrote:we're talking about the weight difference between two grains of rice and a blade of grass.

Rice is definitely the tastier of the two options.

There is a difference between MVPB and CCN. For me, I'd choose UVA with less than half the debt of NYU. NYU probably has a bit better job opportunities, but this year has been tough for everyone, and I'd rather be in the low-debt boat than having 180k debt and needing to not only land biglaw, but to stay there for years to pay off debt.

Also, UMich is a better brand name than NYU, in my opinion. But, I'm not from New York, and didn't do the liberal arts thing.

Michigan or UVA. But it sounds like you'd be happier at MI.

remotelyfeasible wrote:There is a difference between MVPB and CCN. For me, I'd choose UVA with less than half the debt of NYU. NYU probably has a bit better job opportunities, but this year has been tough for everyone, and I'd rather be in the low-debt boat than having 180k debt and needing to not only land biglaw, but to stay there for years to pay off debt.

Also, UMich is a better brand name than NYU, in my opinion. But, I'm not from New York, and didn't do the liberal arts thing.

+1 to the first part, but as an Easterner, Michigan doesn't mean much to me. And as a pre-law person, I knew that NYU Law was really good but thought Mich was lower-ranked than it actually is.

But still, are the differences between the schools worth 100k if you like them both roughly the same? I don't think so. I'd take the money.