Top Law Schools

Really having a rough time with this decision, so I'd thought I consult TLS.

I'm from the PNW, and wouldn't mind coming back here, but I'm really looking for a school that could travel well while not putting me in to a tremendous mountain of debt. NYU seems like it would offer the best prospects but paying sticker is definitely scary. I really liked the Penn, Duke, and Cornell campuses, but I don't want to close any doors if I can avoid it. I'm a bit open as to what kind of law I want to practice, but I imagine I would gravitate towards biglaw, though I'm open to PI work.

Still waiting on an appeal from NYU, but I don't think they're gonna come through. Cornell graciously offered me a few extra days to decide, as I received my acceptance and scholarship fairly late.

Help? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

That's a tough one. I would go for either NYU or Cornell. Which one depends on how risk adverse you are.

Cornell...a T14 full ride is hard to turn down for anything but HYS
You get ZERO stress, a 50% shot at getting a Biglaw job (only if you want it-dont need it for the $), and still have a prestigious/Ivy league school name on you Resume

For me, all options are wins except NYU sticker.

DISCLAIMER: In love with Duke and have a crush on Penn.

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You'd be better off comapring your options based on total cost of attendance. IIRC, Cornell tuition is 6-7k/yr higher than Duke or NYU. Also, COL is gonna vary tremendously among your schools.

Chairman wrote:You'd be better off comapring your options based on total cost of attendance. IIRC, Cornell tuition is 6-7k/yr higher than Duke or NYU. Also, COL is gonna vary tremendously among your schools.

Thanks, good point. with the scholarships, the breakdown in total COA looks like:

NYU: $210,050
Penn: $151,830
Duke: $118,506
Cornell: $89,250

In terms of other preferences, I would say I'd want a school with good portability and internship/job, though I suppose all of the four fit the bill at least somewhat.

I was facing almost the exact same situation this past weekend. My NYU offer was a little more, but the Duke one was less. My seat deposit is on its way to Cornell right now.

underachiever wrote:Cornell...a T14 full ride is hard to turn down for anything but HYS
You get ZERO stress, a 50% shot at getting a Biglaw job (only if you want it-dont need it for the $), and still have a prestigious/Ivy league school name on you Resume

zero stress? how do you figure? the possibility of unemployment or underemployment is pretty stressful even without debt.

Stay in the T12, go to Duke or Penn.

Penn or Duke.

Cornell. Places just as well as Penn or Duke.

Duke.

Desert Fox wrote:Cornell. Places just as well as Penn or Duke.

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thickfreakness wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:Cornell. Places just as well as Penn or Duke.

--ImageRemoved--

Not joking.

Ithaca is gorges.

awesomepossum wrote:

underachiever wrote:Cornell...a T14 full ride is hard to turn down for anything but HYS
You get ZERO stress, a 50% shot at getting a Biglaw job (only if you want it-dont need it for the $), and still have a prestigious/Ivy league school name on you Resume

zero stress? how do you figure? the possibility of unemployment or underemployment is pretty stressful even without debt.

B/C this would never happen @ Duke or Penn???

KMaine wrote:

awesomepossum wrote:

underachiever wrote:Cornell...a T14 full ride is hard to turn down for anything but HYS
You get ZERO stress, a 50% shot at getting a Biglaw job (only if you want it-dont need it for the $), and still have a prestigious/Ivy league school name on you Resume

zero stress? how do you figure? the possibility of unemployment or underemployment is pretty stressful even without debt.

B/C this would never happen @ Duke or Penn???

uhhh......what?

My point (which I thought would be obvious) is that even without the risk of debt, law school is stressful due to the possibility of unemployment or underemployment.

Basically you have 2 competing interests and one has to win out. If you don't want to amass a nasty pile of debt, you have to forego something in return. So it depends on your personal comfort level with debt. We can speculate all day how much of a cut in prospects you'd really be taking if you went to Cornell instead of Penn or Duke, but I'd suggest you look at each of these school's placement in the type of employment your seeking. Easy way to check is look at their NLJ 250 firm placement, federal clerkships, etc. If you're aiming for Vault 100, then take a look at some of the firms there and where those associates went to school.

Ultimately it will come down to an approximation of your relative chance at landing that kind of employment and whether or not you consider that extra % being worth the extra debt.

I'd wager to say that taking a T14 at a $120k discount isn't a bad idea, as I suspect the difference in placement percentages between Cornell and Penn or Duke will be in the 5-10% range, but I'm too lazy to actually look it up.

Good luck. Congrats on your great options!

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Last year Cornell got rocked by no offers, but traditionally places equal with Penn and Duke.

Desert Fox wrote:
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Last year Cornell got rocked by no offers, but traditionally places equal with Penn and Duke.

I love how you cherry pick your data to choose the slightly old data. hahahaha.

awesomepossum wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Last year Cornell got rocked by no offers, but traditionally places equal with Penn and Duke.

I love how you cherry pick your data to choose the slightly old data. hahahaha.

I included 2009 data, I just don't have a nice chart. I looked for a good 5 minutes for one.

Desert Fox wrote:

awesomepossum wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Last year Cornell got rocked by no offers, but traditionally places equal with Penn and Duke.

I love how you cherry pick your data to choose the slightly old data. hahahaha.

I included 2009 data, I just don't have a nice chart. I looked for a good 5 minutes for one.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15951/TLS%3ALS/ ... page12.pdf

I wonder if anybody has this chart handy....there's one out there with schools broken down to show firm hiring + clerkships and all the different categories. It was an awfully nifty chart. I have no recollection of where it is anymore though. The data on that sucker is probably old too though.

It's nice because if you just look at those NLJ charts, it looks like Yale sucks...which is obviously the wrong conclusion. Clerkship hiring is relevant because many of the top students go to clerkships and rack up nice bonuses for their troubles when they start.

A person going to a given law school doesn't really care about HOW MANY people get firm jobs. They care more about HOW HARD it is to get that job. More concretely, how deep firms are willing to go into the class. Charts that include the other opportunities, specifically clerkships (because they're arguably more desirable to lots of smarties than firm jobs) are more reflective of that.

awesomepossum wrote:I wonder if anybody has this chart handy....there's one out there with schools broken down to show firm hiring + clerkships and all the different categories. It was an awfully nifty chart. I have no recollection of where it is anymore though. The data on that sucker is probably old too though.

It's nice because if you just look at those NLJ charts, it looks like Yale sucks...which is obviously the wrong conclusion. Clerkship hiring is relevant because many of the top students go to clerkships and rack up nice bonuses for their troubles when they start.

Someone did one but they include 2009 NLJ data with 2008 clerkship data. I'm not sure if 2009 clerkship data is out yet.