Help! IU-Bloomington or BU? Forum

[rjfried]

Hey everyone,

I lurk on here a bit but don't post very often. I am looking for some solid advice.

Here's the situation:

1. BU - No scholarship. I am very much a city person. I have enjoyed living in a city during my undergraduate. Also I could totally see myself living in the northeast after law school if I was limited there. Additionally, I am not exactly sure where I want to end up living/practicing and I feel like BU has a more national reputation and places better all over the US instead of just in the northeast.

2. IU-Bloomington - Full tuition scholarship. I am not sure how I would feel about living in Bloomington. I don't have any family in Indiana and have never even been to the midwest. Also, I am unsure about how well they place outside of Indianapolis and Chicago. While I wouldn't mind working in Chicago at the end of the day, I feel like breaking into that market with competition from UChicago, NW, WUSTL, Illiniois, etc would be pretty tough. On the other hand, the thought of having such little debt coming out of law school is very appealing.

3. I am on about 9 waitlists right now and will probably ride out most of them to see what happens.

From what I know, all things being equal I would choose BU without thinking twice about it (maybe this is naive or misinformed of me). However, the debt thing is enough to get me to really really consider IU. Which one should I choose? Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated.

[NickM54]

Hey everyone,

I lurk on here a bit but don't post very often. I am looking for some solid advice.

Here's the situation:

1. BU - No scholarship. I am very much a city person. I have enjoyed living in a city during my undergraduate. Also I could totally see myself living in the northeast after law school if I was limited there. Additionally, I am not exactly sure where I want to end up living/practicing and I feel like BU has a more national reputation and places better all over the US instead of just in the northeast.

2. IU-Bloomington - Full tuition scholarship. I am not sure how I would feel about living in Bloomington. I don't have any family in Indiana and have never even been to the midwest. Also, I am unsure about how well they place outside of Indianapolis and Chicago. While I wouldn't mind working in Chicago at the end of the day, I feel like breaking into that market with competition from UChicago, NW, WUSTL, Illiniois, etc would be pretty tough. On the other hand, the thought of having such little debt coming out of law school is very appealing.

3. I am on about 9 waitlists right now and will probably ride out most of them to see what happens.

From what I know, all things being equal I would choose BU without thinking twice about it (maybe this is naive or misinformed of me). However, the debt thing is enough to get me to really really consider IU. Which one should I choose? Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated.

I do live in Indiana. If you really want to live on the east coast, then this is no contest you should go to BU. But, if you have any questions about IN I will help you out. I think this is no contest for your particular situation. BU it is!

[rjfried]

Thanks for your comment Nick. Do you think the benefit of going to BU is worth 120k?

Also could you guys who are voting also let me know your reasoning. It would be really helpful.

Wow so its 50/50 but no one is really giving me any reasons why they are voting the way they are.

[LavAzza2004]

I had a full-tuition offer from IU and also $$ from BU. I'm turning both down as I narrow my choices. I attended the ASW at IU largely because they covered my travel expenses and I figured I should check out the place that was offering me a full ride. I came away quite impressed with the school and was sufficiently convinced that the school wasn't too limiting to the midwest. It definitely had a family/friendly feel. However, I decided that - especially if the school itself is so small - that I then wanted to at least be in a big city. Also, I'll be turning 30 before school starts and didn't want to spend three years living in such a college town. If I'm at a school with tens of thousands of undergrads and many fellow law students that are just out of undergrad themselves, I prefer a city with a young professional crowd to hang with. That said - give IU some thought.

[BarbellDreams]

With a full ride at Indiana you should easily be able to negotiate at least SOMETHING from BU. I think BU is much better, but I feel like they may give you 8 or 10k with a good negotiation letter. If I got 10k from BU I would go there, if not I would wait out the WL and eventually go to IU if those were the ONLY 2 options.

[Threepeat]

I didn't vote, but I live in Indiana and am heavily considering IU. I don't think you can really bank on a job in Chicago coming out of IU right now. I was at the SLD, and it seems to be pretty tough from the people I talked to. If you go to IU, although Chicago certainly wouldn't be impossible (although close to it), you would need to have the reasonable expectations of searching for a job in Indy, Louisville, and Cincy. If you know you wouldn't be comfortable with that at all, I would say it's a deal breaker.

BU's job prospects and placement are certainly better than IU, but at 120K, is it worth it? I don't know. I would probably take the full ride at IU because the thought of limiting my debt to ~30K-45k is appealing. You certainly wouldn't feel the debt burden as much, and that definitely contributes to overall happiness.

[rjfried]

I did try to negotiate money out of BU but I didn't have any luck. They told me they didn't have funds and that they might come available later.

I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. It's obviously a difficult choice. I did go ahead and send a deposit to BU today if for no other reason than to push off the decision a bit longer.

I was comparing job placement from the two schools and it just seems like BU's options are so much better for me. The only thing that is making me think so hard about IU is the full-tuition scholarship. If all things were equal it would be a done deal. So I guess the real question is...are the benefits of BU over IU worth 120k?

[BarbellDreams]

What do you wanna do?
What are you stats?
Where are you WLed?

[NickM54]

Thanks for your comment Nick. Do you think the benefit of going to BU is worth 120k?

Also could you guys who are voting also let me know your reasoning. It would be really helpful.

Wow so its 50/50 but no one is really giving me any reasons why they are voting the way they are.

I think getting out of school with limited debt, provided it is a good education, is an awesome thing. I gathered from the OP that you wanted to be on the east coast upon graduating, which lead me to pick BU. I think IUB is a great school, but if you want to work in Boston, then you have a clear winner here.

[Vincent Vega]

It's not exactly the same situation, but I chose a full scholarship at Indiana over $10k/yr at Illinois. While job prospects are somewhat worse at Indiana, the COA is so much lower there, it was impossible for me to pass up. Like threepeat said, I am a little concerned about finding a job in a couple years, but after visiting there I realized I loved the environment there, and the full ride was just too good to pass up, especially without GPA/class rank restrictions.

Bloomington is by no means a major metropolis, but it has a lot more there than I expected. You can definitely live downtown, which has more of a city feel than most college towns I've been to.

Thus, I voted IU. Good luck with your decision!

[danquayle]

Thanks for your comment Nick. Do you think the benefit of going to BU is worth 120k?

Also could you guys who are voting also let me know your reasoning. It would be really helpful.

Wow so its 50/50 but no one is really giving me any reasons why they are voting the way they are.

I think getting out of school with limited debt, provided it is a good education, is an awesome thing. I gathered from the OP that you wanted to be on the east coast upon graduating, which lead me to pick BU. I think IUB is a great school, but if you want to work in Boston, then you have a clear winner here.

I've said it time and again, but debt is far more limiting a factor in a job search than school prestige. Yes, BU is more prestigious than Indiana, and will have much better placement on the East Coast. But you'll be so encumbered by debt that you'll have to jump at the first job offer you get, even if its not what you want or where you want. If you come out with no debt, you have some flexibility to troll around for the ideal situation for a while...

The legal market sucks right now, and there are scant signs that it is getting any better. If it turns out that way, you won't be much better off at below median at BU than median at IU...

[rjfried]

What do you wanna do?
What are you stats?
Where are you WLed?

I am not entirely sure what I want to do. In a perfect world, I would like to do something international (but lets face it, everyone does and these jobs are few and far between). I also wouldn't mind living on the east coast. As far as what I want to do, I figured I might have a better understanding of that after my 1L year (after I have been exposed to the different subjects).

My stats are 164/3.95.

I am currently WL'ed at Mich, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, and Georgetown, but pretty skeptical (though hopeful) about any of those coming through for me.

The 50/50 split is not that helpful. I need to make this decision tomorrow and am just as conflicted as ever.

[Regionality]

It might be helpful to think of it from an employment prospects based on graduation rank perspective.

Assume you are at the median of each class. Median at IU-B will most likely get you a mid-level job ONLY in Indiana's region...so Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and maybe a couple other mid-sized cities in the eastern part of the midwest. Median at BU might be more difficult considering the competition from T14 schools and other strong regional schools (BC and Northeastern come to mind).

So, which situation would you rather graduate in if you graduate a median? Debt-free (or close to it) at IU-B, or debt-full at BU. I personally think that with the way the economy is, you might have to hold off on your east coast dreams a few years after you graduate and go with IU-B. A full ride is just too good to pass up. With all that money that you saved you can take the time to find a job you're truly interested in...and IU-B is sort of portable enough to be able to look on the east coast right after graduation (and if not, you'll work a few years in the midwest and then hopefully make a lateral move out east)

Just my $.02

[bk1]

You seem like you want more national or large market prospects than BU or IUB offer you (though I could be wrong). I know that you mentioned retaking the LSAT in another thread, but if you really want national prospects and/or desire a different market than Boston or Indiana, have you considered retaking the LSAT this October and reapplying?

[Barolo]

Free is really inexpensive. Granted, there will be living expenses, but they will be a hell of a lot lower in Indiana.

I know BU probably feels like the right choice -- all things being equal -- but all things are not equal.

Unless you know that you want Boston (and I mean Boston specifically), it seems that you should follow the money. People can do very well out of Indiana and median anywhere is better if you're not looking at huge debt obligations. Were I you, I'd go kick as much ass as is humanly possible at Indiana.

[JCougar]

The legal market sucks right now, and there are scant signs that it is getting any better. If it turns out that way, you won't be much better off at below median at BU than median at IU...

This is an important thing to consider. Below median at either school is equally screwed. Of course, below median at Indiana would make it much harder to find a job where OP wants to live. But OP would have only living expenses debt.

This is really a tough one. I don't know if I'd want to pay sticker at BU though, especially ITE. Unless you're comfortably above median there, it's going to be hard to pay off that debt.

[traehekat]

Why aren't you considering W&M?

[rjfried]

Thanks to all for the really good advice.

I wasn't considering W&M because I didn't really want to live in a small town at the time (oops!) and they had all these contingencies on the scholarship I got that would potentially make it difficult to do well.

[rjfried]

Oh and the reason I don't want to take the year off and reapply is because I took the LSAT twice already after taking a prep course and I don't think it's going to get any better, which is a shame because I have a good GPA.

Besides, I wouldn't know what to do for a year...it's not like I can get a job in this economy. Not going to school without a job is not really an option.

[Aberzombie1892]

This is a tough one.

The worst thing about the situation is that you have two extremes (a full ride and sticker). I generally do not advocate paying sticker anywhere. However, you do not seem interested in working in the job markets that IUB feeds into. This makes things more complicated because the only rational answer from that standpoint would be to pay full price for BU. On the other hand, finishing with little debt from IUB will give you more financial freedom at graduation than BU will.

I didn't vote, but I will say this: If you honestly do not see yourself working in Indiana, you have three options:
1. Pray to whatever deity that you pray to get off one of waitlists.
2. Go to BU.
3. Sit out a year (something that you already don't want to do).

[rjfried]

So I guess the question is...if I one day go to Indiana, will I be able to get out?

[traehekat]

So I guess the question is...if I one day go to Indiana, will I be able to get out?

I mean... EVENTUALLY. But if you attending IUB, I would plan on spending the next 6-8 years, at least, living in Indiana.

[JCougar]

So I guess the question is...if I one day go to Indiana, will I be able to get out?

I think lack of mobility is exaggerated here. The biggest thing that would limit you at Indiana is the fact that firms at OCI are all from the area. But if you are from the Northeast, you should have some connections back there. You can apply for jobs back there and have a credible reason for wanting to work out there.

It is, after all, possible to get a job outside of OCI. It takes more work, but that work could be worth it if you have a tiny amount of debt as compensation.

I'm starting to lean toward Indiana here, but try to get a summer job back home either 1L or 2L (or both). From there, you can network your way into some positions.

[rjfried]

Well the thing is that I am not actually from the northeast (I guess this complicates things a bit, doesn't it?). I am from the South but I have always wanted to live up north. I don't really have any connections in the northeast.

[JCougar]

Well the thing is that I am not actually from the northeast (I guess this complicates things a bit, doesn't it?). I am from the South but I have always wanted to live up north. I don't really have any connections in the northeast.

That does complicate things.

It's a gamble either way. I think I'd personally choose IU still, because that's such a huge difference in debt. I would focus from the start on getting a 1L summer job in the northeast, even if it's not a paying job. If you do get a paying one, that's great, but start taking tangible actions that show that you really want to work in that area. Once you get out there for the summers, network your ass off.