Top Law Schools

Here's the breakdown:

Background in public and private practice. Interested in international trade: wants to practice corporate law.
Significantly prefers DC to Ohio: would not be willing to live in Ohio after graduation. Some friends and contacts live in DC but not in Ohio.

Cost comparison:

American University with grant: $195 thousand over 3 years
Ohio State with grant: $145 thousand over 3 years

Which would you pick and why?

How much of a grant did you get at AU? Isn't $195K sticker for AU?

FullThrottle wrote:Here's the breakdown:

Background in public and private practice. Interested in international trade: wants to practice corporate law.
Significantly prefers DC to Ohio: would not be willing to live in Ohio after graduation. Some friends and contacts live in DC but not in Ohio.

Cost comparison:

American University with grant: $195 thousand over 3 years
Ohio State with grant: $145 thousand over 3 years

Which would you pick and why?

American, I guess, because of the bolded. Which is kind of a shame.

Chances for a better job are much higher at OSU. That means more money and more interesting work. However, this job will probably be in the midwest.

Chances of getting a job in DC are higher at American, but this job will not be as good as the OSU job. And cost of living will be higher in DC.

So if it's true that you would be totally unwilling to risk living in Ohio after school, pick American, but this is a bad choice.

bert wrote:How much of a grant did you get at AU? Isn't $195K sticker for AU?

$13 thousand. 195 thousand is probably where it will end up factoring in interest.
If the stars align the grant will be renewed each year.

holydonkey wrote:American, I guess, because of the bolded. Which is kind of a shame.

Chances for a better job are much higher at OSU. That means more money and more interesting work. However, this job will probably be in the midwest.

Chances of getting a job in DC are higher at American, but this job will not be as good as the OSU job. And cost of living will be higher in DC.

So if it's true that you would be totally unwilling to risk living in Ohio after school, pick American, but this is a bad choice.

Thank you for your post holydonkey. I appreciate it.

I am under a lot of pressure to attend American, internal and external. It comes directly from my family. It is unfair: it is my decision and I alone am paying for it. But the other hand says that I would feel alone in Ohio.

A bit ironic: OSU would seemingly be the better choice for my family: in supporting it financially and starting one of my own. Yet, my family would see me less. I suppose, emotionally, my need for affiliation (AU) is pitted against my need for achievement (OSU). It is a shame and I don't know what to do.

FullThrottle wrote:

bert wrote:How much of a grant did you get at AU? Isn't $195K sticker for AU?

$13 thousand. 195 thousand is probably where it will end up factoring in interest.
If the stars align the grant will be renewed each year.

holydonkey wrote:American, I guess, because of the bolded. Which is kind of a shame.

Chances for a better job are much higher at OSU. That means more money and more interesting work. However, this job will probably be in the midwest.

Chances of getting a job in DC are higher at American, but this job will not be as good as the OSU job. And cost of living will be higher in DC.

So if it's true that you would be totally unwilling to risk living in Ohio after school, pick American, but this is a bad choice.

Thank you for your post holydonkey. I appreciate it.

I am under a lot of pressure to attend American, internal and external. It comes directly from my family, indirectly from my girlfriend's career ambitions in DC. It is unfair: it is my decision and I alone am paying for it. But the other hand says that I would feel alone in Ohio.

A bit ironic: OSU would seemingly be the better choice for my family: in supporting it financially and starting one of my own. Yet, my family would see me less. I suppose, emotionally, my need for affiliation (AU) is pitted against my need for achievement (OSU). It is a shame and I don't know what to do.

It's a bit ridiculous to say that you will get a better job in Ohio that you'll enjoy more while you'll get a worse job in D.C.

Maybe what you want to do doesn't have many positions to apply for in Ohio. Maybe you do well at American and get a great job.

Who knows.

Go where you want to. Go where it fits you life.

Great Satchmo wrote:It's a bit ridiculous to say that you will get a better job in Ohio that you'll enjoy more while you'll get a worse job in D.C.

Maybe what you want to do doesn't have many positions to apply for in Ohio. Maybe you do well at American and get a great job.

Who knows.

While it's true that American and OSU place approximately the same number of students in NLJ250 firms (OSU leads by about 1.5%), OSU blows American out of the water in federal clerkships. Last year OSU placed 7.5% of its class in federal clerkships. American? 1.1%

This means 24.1% at OSU had access to nlj or clerking and only 16.2% at American had the same options. OSU is also arguably the best school in Ohio, a state with a decent legal market. American is in DC, but has to compete with Georgetown, GW, GMU, Maryland, William & Mary, W&L, and to a lesser extent Catholic/Howard. Even if you don't land biglaw in Ohio, cost of tuition is lower and living expenses are lower. You can buy a house in Ohio for 1/3 to a 1/4th of what you can in DC/NOVA. If you make 60k in Ohio, you're doing well. If you make 60k in DC, you're scraping by.

If location was not a factor, there really is no contest.

holydonkey wrote:American is in DC, but has to compete with Georgetown, GW, GMU, Maryland, William & Mary, W&L, and to a lesser extent Catholic/Howard.

Don't forget UVA! I turned down $ at american last cycle and retook the LSAT for this exact reason. I mean American is only the third best law school in its city! In the D.C./Virginia area there are 6-8 schools that are better for jobs than American (most of which are cheaper).

If we agree that law schools are, for the most part, regional, it makes very little sense to go to a school with so much regional competition (unless its one of the the top schools in the region).

If you want to leave Ohio, don't go to school in Ohio.

I want to you stop and think of what life will be like w/ ~195k in debt if you are not in the ~16% that gets a BL/clerkship job and if you don't do PI.

So say you make 70k. If you spread that 195k over 10 years that is $2,244.07 per month in debt payment or 29.9k per year. After taxes that 70k becomes ~57k, which then becomes ~27k, after debt, of Disposable Income. And you have to live on 27k in Washington, DC one of the most expensive parts of America.

If you are doing PI, however, that is a different story b/c there is the new loan payment where you only pay 10% of your income and then after 10 years it is forgiven, I believe. If you are following the $, however, I would suggest looking at the ROI of American at 195k and considering if it is worth it relative to other schools.


http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

gwuorbust wrote:I want to you stop and think of what life will be like w/ ~195k in debt if you are not in the ~16% that gets a BL/clerkship job and if you don't do PI.

So say you make 70k. If you spread that 195k over 10 years that is $2,244.07 per month in debt payment or 29.9k per year. After taxes that 70k becomes ~57k, which then becomes ~27k, after debt, of Disposable Income. And you have to live on 27k in Washington, DC one of the most expensive parts of America.

If you are doing PI, however, that is a different story b/c there is the new loan payment where you only pay 10% of your income and then after 10 years it is forgiven, I believe. If you are following the $, however, I would suggest looking at the ROI of American at 195k and considering if it is worth it relative to other schools.


http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

Wrong! It`s 15% for us.

baboon309 wrote:

gwuorbust wrote:I want to you stop and think of what life will be like w/ ~195k in debt if you are not in the ~16% that gets a BL/clerkship job and if you don't do PI.

So say you make 70k. If you spread that 195k over 10 years that is $2,244.07 per month in debt payment or 29.9k per year. After taxes that 70k becomes ~57k, which then becomes ~27k, after debt, of Disposable Income. And you have to live on 27k in Washington, DC one of the most expensive parts of America.

If you are doing PI, however, that is a different story b/c there is the new loan payment where you only pay 10% of your income and then after 10 years it is forgiven, I believe. If you are following the $, however, I would suggest looking at the ROI of American at 195k and considering if it is worth it relative to other schools.


http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

Wrong! It`s 15% for us.

ok 15%, w/e... I'm only after the $$$ so my expertise is not in PI

Is that 15% of your total income on a total or monthly basis? So if you make 60,000 a year, loan payments cannot exceed $9000 for the year or per month?

Also, why do people say I can't leave Ohio? Assume I pass the Ohio 3 day bar exam, with a pass rate on all sections above an 85. If I get a DC sponsor, a firm or corporation, can I not move to DC and practice (ie gain "Acceptance" to the DC bar?)

I would really be proactive and apply to as many DC jobs as possible. Fill me in.

If you want DC then you need to retake the LSAT so you can go to GW. Paying $200k to go to American is irresponsible. OSU offers far better employment prospects, albeit in Ohio.

However, OSU does offer a DC semester-long study program where you take classes as well as extern somewhere in the capital. Dunno if that interests you, but it's worth exploring.