Top Law Schools

I live in NC, and I thought my decision would just come down to UGA or UNC. WFU however gave me a pretty sizeable scholarship yesterday, and now I am not sure what I want to do. I plan on working in the SE US. Any thoughts?

UGA Tuition would be $14,448 for the first year with the scholarship
WFU Tuition would be $11,514 with the scholarship and top 2/3 ($24,014 if not)

EDIT: Was waitlisted at Carolina. So changed the poll.

edited. Thanks =).
sorry was in a bad mood that day.

Whichever is most affordable, I think they're all peer schools.

Would you rather practice in Georgia, or NC? If Georgia, think Atlanta, go to UGA, if you would like to stay in N Carolina, go to UNC.

However, if you would like some more mobility, go with Wake forest. Wake forest is the Switzerland of the southeast legal market. It is a good, and preferred, degree all over the south.

Charlie Crist, is a wake law grad, he was state attorney then governor of Florida.

However, since I would not mind working in Ga, I voted for UGA.

Bump.

ram jam wrote: Charlie Crist, is a wake law grad, he was state attorney then governor of Florida.

I like Wake too, but this is false. According to the link below, he went to Wake undergrad for two years, then transferred to FSU. His law degree is from Cumberland, and he failed the FL bar twice.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/artic ... 51,00.html

I voted for Wake as I think it places about equally with UNC and might give you a little more mobility.

malfurion wrote:

ram jam wrote: Charlie Crist, is a wake law grad, he was state attorney then governor of Florida.

I like Wake too, but this is false. According to the link below, he went to Wake undergrad for two years, then transferred to FSU. His law degree is from Cumberland, and he failed the FL bar twice.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/artic ... 51,00.html

I stand corrected. This is interesting, it is a popular misconception that Crist is a wake law grad in Florida.

One last shameless bump. Thanks for the help everyone!

Atlanta > anywhere in NC

my vote goes for UGA

I voted for Wake because their placement these days is at least on par with UNC, and they have a nicer facility (and student parking!) and are more professional in general. Also, you're in at Wake. So take that FWIW. My impression is that Wake is more business-oriented and UNC more public-service-oriented, so it depends on what you want to do, too.

If you want to be in GA, ignore me, but realize that if you go to UGA, you may have trouble finding work outside of GA, at least for the first few years. Also, the tuition equalization only lasts one year, so if you want to keep in-state tuition, you'd have to become a GA resident. And there's some talk on TLS that that isn't quite as easy as UGA claims it is, so if you're seriously considering UGA I think you should talk to some out-of-state students to see how easy it really was.

That said, they're all great schools! Good luck.

I don't know what the scholarship conditions are, but if you should lose it, wake forest would be significantly more expensive than UNC. Also UNC is right in the research triangle, has a better QOL, more clinics, etc. It seems to place about the same as Wake, but is a little more prestigious in the NC area since it's a "public ivy."

I'd say UGA for Georgia, and UNC for NC.

Wake is a nice school, but much more risky (should you lose the scholarship, you'll come out with SIGNIFICANTLY more debt). The risk isn't worth the positives (good job placement in NC, etc) since you can NOT have the risk by going to UNC and still get similar (if not better) job prospects.

Generally speaking...

If you want Georgia, go to Georgia.
If you want North Carolina public interest/government, go to North Carolina.
If you want North Carolina firms, go to Wake Forest.

icydash wrote:I don't know what the scholarship conditions are, but if you should lose it, wake forest would be significantly more expensive than UNC. Also UNC is right in the research triangle, has a better QOL, more clinics, etc. It seems to place about the same as Wake, but is a little more prestigious in the NC area since it's a "public ivy."

I'd say UGA for Georgia, and UNC for NC.

Wake is a nice school, but much more risky (should you lose the scholarship, you'll come out with SIGNIFICANTLY more debt). The risk isn't worth the positives (good job placement in NC, etc) since you can NOT have the risk by going to UNC and still get similar (if not better) job prospects.

False. Please don't talk about subjects you don't know.

First off, you can't ever lose your wake scholarship, it can only get cut in half. And you'd have to do pretty bad for that to happen- requirement is only top 2/3rds of class.

That being said, if you don't care about location, I'd go UGA- Already ranked hirer than wake, and just got boost. Places verywell in the atlanta market.

And it is my uniformed opinion that unc is on the way out.


Edited to say: WFU has quite the clan of trolls. And I mean that in the best way possible =)

Why is it on the way out?

Nicholasnickynic wrote:

icydash wrote:I don't know what the scholarship conditions are, but if you should lose it, wake forest would be significantly more expensive than UNC. Also UNC is right in the research triangle, has a better QOL, more clinics, etc. It seems to place about the same as Wake, but is a little more prestigious in the NC area since it's a "public ivy."

I'd say UGA for Georgia, and UNC for NC.

Wake is a nice school, but much more risky (should you lose the scholarship, you'll come out with SIGNIFICANTLY more debt). The risk isn't worth the positives (good job placement in NC, etc) since you can NOT have the risk by going to UNC and still get similar (if not better) job prospects.

False. Please don't talk about subjects you don't know.

First off, you can't ever lose your wake scholarship, it can only get cut in half. And you'd have to do pretty bad for that to happen- requirement is only top 2/3rds of class.

That being said, if you don't care about location, I'd go UGA- Already ranked hirer than wake, and just got boost. Places verywell in the atlanta market.

And it is my uniformed opinion that unc is on the way out.


Edited to say: WFU has quite the clan of trolls. And I mean that in the best way possible =)

What are you talking about? The first thing I said was that I didn't know what the scholarship conditions were for wake....please read the whole statement -- I was making the assumption you can entirely lose it. And even if you're right, and worst case scenario is that it gets cut in half, everything I said still holds -- it would still be more expensive than in-state at UNC. Don't forget that everyone thinks they will be in the top 2/3rds or top 50% of their class, yet there are always 50% of kids (or 1/3 of kids) who aren't, and I find it wise to prepare for the worst. Why go to a possibly more expensive (and worse ranked) school (should you not be as awesome as every 0L thinks they are) when you can go to a definitely cheaper (and better ranked) school (UNC)?



Also, UNC is in fact right in the research triangle, does have a better QOL, and does in fact have more clinics. It also is a "public ivy" and seems to have a little more prestige in the NC area.




Also, part of my post said that you have similar job prospects at Wake and UNC (if not better at UNC), which also is in fact true:
Employment 9 months after graduation:
Wake --> 95.8%
UNC --> 94.7%

Wake's assessment score by lawyers and judges is pretty solid (relative to its overall rank)-- 3.6, which is on par with UIUC, BU, and BC. It is better than higher ranked schools such as USC, IUB, Davis, UGA, Fordham, OSU, Washington, CU, Alabama, and ASU. However, UNC's assessment score by lawyers is REALLY solid - 3.9.




In fact, literally everything I said was 100% true. If you have a problem with part of my post, please point it out and correct it, because just writing "false" doesn't mean anything / solve any issues....especially when I'm actually right about everything I wrote...

edit: and yeah, please explain why you think UNC is on the way out-- I'm very interested in this considering their recent USNEWS boost....

Bump for change in schools. Just waitlisted by Carolina.

enter_sandman wrote:Bump for change in schools. Just waitlisted by Carolina.

Pretty lame waitlist, in my opinion. Given your stats plus residency, UNC should have been a sure thing for you. Go to Wake!

Pick a state you like more, GA or NC. Go to school there.

Oh. haha. you probably shouldn't do a poll with school options until you get into the schools...for future reference.

icydash wrote:Oh. haha. you probably shouldn't do a poll with school options until you get into the schools...for future reference.

I had "Pending, In-State" beside Carolina in the original poll. So I wasn't exactly putting the cart before the horse. Just wanted to see what people thought.

enter_sandman wrote:

icydash wrote:Oh. haha. you probably shouldn't do a poll with school options until you get into the schools...for future reference.

I had "Pending, In-State" beside Carolina in the original poll. So I wasn't exactly putting the cart before the horse. Just wanted to see what people thought.

Oh I guess I missed that.

icydash wrote:

Nicholasnickynic wrote:

icydash wrote:I don't know what the scholarship conditions are, but if you should lose it, wake forest would be significantly more expensive than UNC. Also UNC is right in the research triangle, has a better QOL, more clinics, etc. It seems to place about the same as Wake, but is a little more prestigious in the NC area since it's a "public ivy."

I'd say UGA for Georgia, and UNC for NC.

Wake is a nice school, but much more risky (should you lose the scholarship, you'll come out with SIGNIFICANTLY more debt). The risk isn't worth the positives (good job placement in NC, etc) since you can NOT have the risk by going to UNC and still get similar (if not better) job prospects.

False. Please don't talk about subjects you don't know.

First off, you can't ever lose your wake scholarship, it can only get cut in half. And you'd have to do pretty bad for that to happen- requirement is only top 2/3rds of class.

That being said, if you don't care about location, I'd go UGA- Already ranked hirer than wake, and just got boost. Places verywell in the atlanta market.

And it is my uniformed opinion that unc is on the way out.


Edited to say: WFU has quite the clan of trolls. And I mean that in the best way possible =)

What are you talking about? The first thing I said was that I didn't know what the scholarship conditions were for wake....please read the whole statement -- I was making the assumption you can entirely lose it. And even if you're right, and worst case scenario is that it gets cut in half, everything I said still holds -- it would still be more expensive than in-state at UNC. Don't forget that everyone thinks they will be in the top 2/3rds or top 50% of their class, yet there are always 50% of kids (or 1/3 of kids) who aren't, and I find it wise to prepare for the worst. Why go to a possibly more expensive (and worse ranked) school (should you not be as awesome as every 0L thinks they are) when you can go to a definitely cheaper (and better ranked) school (UNC)?



Also, UNC is in fact right in the research triangle, does have a better QOL, and does in fact have more clinics. It also is a "public ivy" and seems to have a little more prestige in the NC area.




Also, part of my post said that you have similar job prospects at Wake and UNC (if not better at UNC), which also is in fact true:
Employment 9 months after graduation:
Wake --> 95.8%
UNC --> 94.7%

Wake's assessment score by lawyers and judges is pretty solid (relative to its overall rank)-- 3.6, which is on par with UIUC, BU, and BC. It is better than higher ranked schools such as USC, IUB, Davis, UGA, Fordham, OSU, Washington, CU, Alabama, and ASU. However, UNC's assessment score by lawyers is REALLY solid - 3.9.




In fact, literally everything I said was 100% true. If you have a problem with part of my post, please point it out and correct it, because just writing "false" doesn't mean anything / solve any issues....especially when I'm actually right about everything I wrote...

edit: and yeah, please explain why you think UNC is on the way out-- I'm very interested in this considering their recent USNEWS boost....

You were not right about everything you wrote- you were wrong about the scholarship. Just because you say "I dont know what the scholarship conditions are but..." doesn't stop your sentence about the scholarship conditions from being wrong.

Could I say "I don;t know what the rankings are, but UNC is ranked 50?" That would be okay with you, since I admitted I don't know at the start? What you said was wrong, period.

Furthermore, UNC may have prestige according to usnews... but according to nlj 250 and clerkships (IE real measures of prestige)-its Wake all the way.

Furthermore, UNC's temporary rise in the rankings means nothing. In the big picture of things, they are on the way out: (http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_schoo ... _1987_1999) :

1990: 21
1991: 24.5
1992-1993 (not ranked)
1994: 32
1995: 32
1996: 34
1997: 34
1998: 26
1999: 21

next section (http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_schoo ... 00_present):

2000: 22
2001: 24
2002: 31
2003: 29
2004: 27
2005: 29
2006: 29
2007: 39
2008: 39
2009: 30
2010: 28... phew..


So you see, unc has gone from a school ranked in the low 20s, to a school ranked in the low 30s, and now ranked in the high 20s.

They show no sign of being able to come anywhere near the mid 20s anytime soon, yet alone the low 20s that they started out with. Just look at the past 8 years, they have struggeled to stay in the t30 and have dropped out multiple times.

Plus as mentioned earlier, wake gets more big firm (NLJ 250) jobs as well as 2x as many federal clerkships, despite having a MUCH smaller class.

Like I said, UNC is on the way out.

Also, whats this public ivy bs? I'm sure firms take into account unc's "public ivy" status What ever the hell that means

is you instate equalization for all 3 years?

Nicholasnickynic wrote:Could I say "I don;t know what the rankings are, but UNC is ranked 50?" That would be okay with you, since I admitted I don't know at the start? What you said was wrong, period.

No, but if you said, "i don't know what the rankings are, but if UNC was ranked 50, ....." and continued your analysis based on that assumption, then yes, it would be correct. You're giving an analysis based on a prior assumption, which you're stating up front you don't know whether is true or false.... And in the scheme of the overall point of the argument, whether or not you can get half your scholarship taken away or all of it taken away doesn't matter. The rest of the analysis about it being more expensive at Wake in a worst-case-scenario is correct.

Nicholasnickynic wrote:Furthermore, UNC may have prestige according to usnews... but according to nlj 250 and clerkships (IE real measures of prestige)-its Wake all the way.

So you're saying peer assessment by judges, lawyers, etc (which UNC clearly has better reviews) is NOT a "real measure of prestige"? What world do you live on? It's just that UNC grads don't go to as many nlj 250 firms because it's a school known for public interest/public service, not private firm placement. Kids go to UNC to help people, not make $. That's why tuition is so cheap, because they know after graduation most people will go into lower paying, public service jobs.

Nicholasnickynic wrote: Furthermore, UNC's temporary rise in the rankings means nothing. In the big picture of things, they are on the way out: (http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_schoo ... _1987_1999) :

1990: 21
1991: 24.5
1992-1993 (not ranked)
1994: 32
1995: 32
1996: 34
1997: 34
1998: 26
1999: 21

next section (http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_schoo ... 00_present):

2000: 22
2001: 24
2002: 31
2003: 29
2004: 27
2005: 29
2006: 29
2007: 39
2008: 39
2009: 30
2010: 28... phew..


So you see, unc has gone from a school ranked in the low 20s, to a school ranked in the low 30s, and now ranked in the high 20s.

This is actually pretty average. You do realize that all law schools fluctuate plus or minus about 10 spots (if not more) over the course of a 10-20 year period, right? And the USNEWS rankings should not be taken as a sign of being on the "up and up" or "on the way out." UNC has never been, and never will be, outside of tier 1. Fordham dropped to spot 34 this year -- do you think they, too, are also "on the way out?"

Nicholasnickynic wrote: They show no sign of being able to come anywhere near the mid 20s anytime soon, yet alone the low 20s that they started out with. Just look at the past 8 years, they have struggeled to stay in the t30 and have dropped out multiple times.

Uhhh...relatively speaking the "right" USNEWS ranking for UNC is probably about a 29. Judging by their stats, the low 20s they started out with was probably more of a fluke than a "good assessment." They are in actuality probably a 29 school that's had the typical plus or minus fluctuations you see for every school over a long time period.

and "They show no sign of being able to come anywhere near the mid 20s anytime soon" .... I'd say being ranked 28 this year is pretty damn close to being close to the "mid 20s" (ie, ranks 24-26)....What on earth are you talking about?

Nicholasnickynic wrote: Also, whats this public ivy bs? I'm sure firms take into account unc's "public ivy" status What ever the hell that means

If you actually go to North Carolina, and talk to people there, UNC is commonly referred to as an "ivy of the south", a "public ivy", etc because it's known to be one of the top schools in the region. It's got more grads / alumni (ie a stronger and broader alumni network), higher USNEWS ranks (law school, undergrad, business school, etc), higher peer assessment scores, (usually) better job placement at graduation, etc than Wake Forest. It's known to be a better school by anyone from NC. (So yes, indirectly, firms in fact DO take into account UNCs "public ivy" status.)

But I guess none of this matters since UNC isn't an option any more for the OP.