Help! GULC vs. Berkeley vs. Northwestern $$ Forum

[XxSpyKEx]

Enjoy Northwestern OP.

[portlandpuzzle]

Just remember you're potentially giving up a chance to be part of GULC's Portlandpuzzle Ensemble, an august group devoted to playing Xenakis in historic buildings that are now considered nightclubs.
(and I'm still undecided too...I'm waiting on finding out my financial aid before making a move)

[jadjerd]

lol.... thanks for everyone's inputs, wouldn't it be easier if we all just agreed! What's the OP? Am I the OP? hopeless Out-of-touch Person?

I'm hitting Berkeley's ASW so we'll see what sense I get, I really regret that I can't go to Northwestern's too to see what they have to say, but I did get to visit there in the fall and I know much less about Berkeley the town so I need to check it out.

Darn April 16 deadline for NU...

[motiontodismiss]

OP=Original Post/Original Poster

[portlandpuzzle]

Darn April 16 deadline for NU...

Have you tried writing NU to request an extension of that deadline, given that you're juggling some excellent choices and they're still seriously in the running?

[hooty86]

-

[Rotor]

For IP, location of the school doesn't really matter that much. A 2L New Yorker I know at Michigan is around top 35%, with no connections to California, and landed IP offers from multiple top firms in SF and NYC. He ended up choosing a v15 in NYC over CA offers, but the point is that he landed offers from top IP firms in CA without having any connections to the state whatsoever.

If you are pursuing IP and do (just) alright at a top school, you can land IP in pretty much any market without needing connections because IP people are coveted.

I would be wary of making life decisions based on anecdotal information. One 2L who got a job doesn't make it a rule.

I can't count the number of events/receptions/etc. that go on within the halls at Boalt hosted by IP firms large and small. While you may find an IP job elsewhere from another school, you would likely have better luck finding the right IP job for you at Boalt.

Just come to ASD next week and then start wracking your brain over your very good choices.

[Illijah]

If the OP was 100% sure they'd do PI I'd say Boalt would be an option. But OP said, PI, IP, or something unknown. OP clearly doesn't know what they want to do yet.

100K is a lot of money to turn down.

If OP does:

1. PI- Boalt wins since IBR makes debt irrelevant.

2. IP- NU wins even though Boalt has a better IP program because the debt is significant.

3. Regular Biglaw- NU. Better placement, and less debt

4. Ends up at the bottom of the class and can't get big law or decent PI work- NU, because 100K in debt more manageable than 200K.

I agree regarding 1, 3, and 4. I'm not sure about 2, though. It's not just that Boalt has a better IP program; it's that Boalt is located in probably the best market in the country for interesting IP jobs. If the OP's goal is to land a job in NYC or Boston or something, then I agree that the differences between NU and Boalt aren't enough to justify an extra $90K in debt. But if the OP is interested in an IP job in California (where many of the IP jobs are), then I think it's worth the extra $90K for Boalt.

NU isn't Harvard or Columbia, whose graduates can compete with Stanford and Boalt grads for the best jobs in California firms. Check out the attorney bios of the top California IP firms. NU grads are hard to find.

By the way, I don't think that Berkeley is the obvious answer for the OP. I just think that, considering the OP's interests, it's silly to exclude Berkeley from his list of choices.

I've heard this can prove to be a very positive thing at times....

[Dignan]

If the OP was 100% sure they'd do PI I'd say Boalt would be an option. But OP said, PI, IP, or something unknown. OP clearly doesn't know what they want to do yet.

100K is a lot of money to turn down.

If OP does:

1. PI- Boalt wins since IBR makes debt irrelevant.

2. IP- NU wins even though Boalt has a better IP program because the debt is significant.

3. Regular Biglaw- NU. Better placement, and less debt

4. Ends up at the bottom of the class and can't get big law or decent PI work- NU, because 100K in debt more manageable than 200K.

I agree regarding 1, 3, and 4. I'm not sure about 2, though. It's not just that Boalt has a better IP program; it's that Boalt is located in probably the best market in the country for interesting IP jobs. If the OP's goal is to land a job in NYC or Boston or something, then I agree that the differences between NU and Boalt aren't enough to justify an extra $90K in debt. But if the OP is interested in an IP job in California (where many of the IP jobs are), then I think it's worth the extra $90K for Boalt.

NU isn't Harvard or Columbia, whose graduates can compete with Stanford and Boalt grads for the best jobs in California firms. Check out the attorney bios of the top California IP firms. NU grads are hard to find.

By the way, I don't think that Berkeley is the obvious answer for the OP. I just think that, considering the OP's interests, it's silly to exclude Berkeley from his list of choices.

I've heard this can prove to be a very positive thing at times....

Sure it can. If you went to Yale or Stanford and your target firm is low on on Y/S grads, then it's a positive thing. But Northwestern? Don't get me wrong--it's a great school and all. But I don't think that West Coast IP clients are going to care or be impressed that a law firm has a good balance of Northwestern grads. The NU name doesn't carry much weight out here.

[09042014]

If the OP was 100% sure they'd do PI I'd say Boalt would be an option. But OP said, PI, IP, or something unknown. OP clearly doesn't know what they want to do yet.

100K is a lot of money to turn down.

If OP does:

1. PI- Boalt wins since IBR makes debt irrelevant.

2. IP- NU wins even though Boalt has a better IP program because the debt is significant.

3. Regular Biglaw- NU. Better placement, and less debt

4. Ends up at the bottom of the class and can't get big law or decent PI work- NU, because 100K in debt more manageable than 200K.

I agree regarding 1, 3, and 4. I'm not sure about 2, though. It's not just that Boalt has a better IP program; it's that Boalt is located in probably the best market in the country for interesting IP jobs. If the OP's goal is to land a job in NYC or Boston or something, then I agree that the differences between NU and Boalt aren't enough to justify an extra $90K in debt. But if the OP is interested in an IP job in California (where many of the IP jobs are), then I think it's worth the extra $90K for Boalt.

NU isn't Harvard or Columbia, whose graduates can compete with Stanford and Boalt grads for the best jobs in California firms. Check out the attorney bios of the top California IP firms. NU grads are hard to find.

By the way, I don't think that Berkeley is the obvious answer for the OP. I just think that, considering the OP's interests, it's silly to exclude Berkeley from his list of choices.

I've heard this can prove to be a very positive thing at times....

Sure it can. If you went to Yale or Stanford and your target firm is low on on Y/S grads, then it's a positive thing. But Northwestern? Don't get me wrong--it's a great school and all. But I don't think that West Coast IP clients are going to care or be impressed that a law firm has a good balance of Northwestern grads. The NU name doesn't carry much weight out here.

And NU caries more weight in Chicago and in
New York. IP isn't exclusively practiced in California. Patent is heavily based in silicon valley, but without an engineering degree or a science PhD that door is closed. If the OP has that then getting a job, even from NU, will be easy. All the big patent firms come to the Chicago patent interview program anyway.

If by IP, the OP means copyright or trademarking then California isn't as important. And that type of IP is just as competitive as any other big law job. Which means there is a strong chance of failure. In which case minimizing debt is the answer.

If all amounts were equal Boalt would be the answer, but it is twice as expensive. Unless the OP is willing to pay 100K to a moderately better chance at getting into a California firm instead of a Chicago or New York firm, I still think NU is the better choice.

[Rotor]

Most (if not all) people find their IP job at OCI, not at events/receptions, and a lot of IP firms go to other top 14's OCIs. I don't see the point of subjecting yourself to an extra 100k debt if you can land pretty much the same jobs in the same markets at another top school for far less money.

To be perfectly frank, every single 2L IP person I know here has a firm job. My friend is a 1L straight-out-of-undergrad engineering with no WE and has a job at an IP firm this summer. (it's a small and probably not representative sample size, but for some reason 6 out of 13 1Ls I have spoken to about summer jobs have a firm job this summer. The other 5 are not pursuing IP.)

Sorry. Didn't mean to suggest that's where one would land the job. However where someone like the OP is trying to figure out what he wants to do, access information is extremely valuable. (But I wouldn't discount the networking relationship to hiring too much). It's up to OP to figure out how much that is worth to him/her.

[jadjerd]

Okay lets see what happens when I make people vote! I know I should consider Michigan, but for a variety of reasons I just don't think its going to a good match to live there for 3 years, and that is important to me.

[bostonian]

lol.... thanks for everyone's inputs, wouldn't it be easier if we all just agreed! What's the OP? Am I the OP? hopeless Out-of-touch Person?

I'm hitting Berkeley's ASW so we'll see what sense I get, I really regret that I can't go to Northwestern's too to see what they have to say, but I did get to visit there in the fall and I know much less about Berkeley the town so I need to check it out.

Darn April 16 deadline for NU...

Unless for some reason they gave you an early deadline, it's the 30th (at least according to the admitted student site and everything they sent me). Not that it really gives you significantly more time, though.

[D-hops]

lol.... thanks for everyone's inputs, wouldn't it be easier if we all just agreed! What's the OP? Am I the OP? hopeless Out-of-touch Person?

I'm hitting Berkeley's ASW so we'll see what sense I get, I really regret that I can't go to Northwestern's too to see what they have to say, but I did get to visit there in the fall and I know much less about Berkeley the town so I need to check it out.

Darn April 16 deadline for NU...

Unless for some reason they gave you an early deadline, it's the 30th (at least according to the admitted student site and everything they sent me). Not that it really gives you significantly more time, though.

Initial round of scholarship decisions have a April 16th date attached to them.

[bostonian]

lol.... thanks for everyone's inputs, wouldn't it be easier if we all just agreed! What's the OP? Am I the OP? hopeless Out-of-touch Person?

I'm hitting Berkeley's ASW so we'll see what sense I get, I really regret that I can't go to Northwestern's too to see what they have to say, but I did get to visit there in the fall and I know much less about Berkeley the town so I need to check it out.

Darn April 16 deadline for NU...

Unless for some reason they gave you an early deadline, it's the 30th (at least according to the admitted student site and everything they sent me). Not that it really gives you significantly more time, though.

Initial round of scholarship decisions have a April 16th date attached to them.

Oh, those. Yeah I got the "just be happy you got in" email.

[D-hops]

lol.... thanks for everyone's inputs, wouldn't it be easier if we all just agreed! What's the OP? Am I the OP? hopeless Out-of-touch Person?

I'm hitting Berkeley's ASW so we'll see what sense I get, I really regret that I can't go to Northwestern's too to see what they have to say, but I did get to visit there in the fall and I know much less about Berkeley the town so I need to check it out.

Darn April 16 deadline for NU...

Unless for some reason they gave you an early deadline, it's the 30th (at least according to the admitted student site and everything they sent me). Not that it really gives you significantly more time, though.

Initial round of scholarship decisions have a April 16th date attached to them.

Oh, those. Yeah I got the "just be happy you got in" email.

So did I.