T20 and Minnesota??? Forum

[Zeile]

So what can you tell me about UMN? I'm asking this, because it seems like the least talked about T20. I thought that maybe UMN was a Big Ten school that happened to just pop into the T20 rather recently and randomly, but after going back and looking through the rankings through the years, they've been here since the beginning of the USNWR and as high as 17. Other schools have come (WUSTL) and gone (UC Hastings), but UMN holds its own. It's a legit T20. In short, I've got offers from Vandy and UCLA at sticker, and UMN and WUSTL with some $. I understand that their placement in BigLaw isn't as impressive as the other T15-T20, but is that partly self-selection (a lot of students from Minnesota who want to stay in Minnesota after graduation)? Is a $80k a year job in the Twin Cities equal to a $130k job in NYC, Chicago, et cetera? Honestly, I never thought that I would take UMN over any of these other schools, but I'm starting to consider it. After WUSTL it would be the cheapest option, and I would prefer to live in Minneapolis over Nashville and especially over St. Louis and LA. Also, it seems that outside of the T14 and maybe Texas, that UMN might be your best bet for academia (though it is still a LONG shot, obviously). Also, does this school have any portability? Judges and lawyers seem to think very highly of the place. Is there a reason why it gets overlooked? I know that UCLA, Vandy, and WUSTL do, but is one confined to Minnesota forever if they attend UMN law, haha. The more I research, the more I like the school, but would it really be wise to pass up UCLA, Vandy and WUSTL??? I'm going insane thinking about this right now. I feel like I'm missing something. I've also got offers from W&M and UDub. Lay it on me...

[vanwinkle]

Nobody wants to live there because it's in Minnesota.

Seriously, though, a lot of folks focus on BigLaw opportunities, and Minnesota is probably best viewed as the fourth-best school feeding the Chicago market (after Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern). WUSTL might even make it fifth. When you couple that with the fact that it's fallback would be in the state of Minnesota, and that does mean being willing to live there even after you graduate... it loses a lot of its appeal to people.

UCLA, on the other hand, is the third-best school on the entire West Coast. UT-Austin is the best school in Texas and dominates two BigLaw markets, Dallas and Houston. You have a lot more options, and in sunnier climates.

Nobody should realistically discuss "academia" outside the T14. Yes, they are possible, but the odds are extremely low, and as a 0L you have not yet done anything that could possibly indicate whether you possess the qualities to become one of the chosen few. I don't think academia is realistically possible coming out of UMN, but I don't think it's realistically possible coming out of UCLA or Texas, either, for most people.

I think that if you're willing to live in Minnesota both before and after you graduate, then UMN is a good choice. COL there is lower than Chicago, and that does probably make it a good fallback option. But what is the Minnesota economy like right now? Are there really that many jobs available for lawyers in Minnesota when you graduate? UMN likely does dominate within the state, but you have to ask if it's a state you can afford to live in, and more importantly, if it's a state you'd want to live in long-term. If the answer is "yes", then sure, go there. But if the answer is "no"... law school could become a long, cold winter for you.

[Thomas Jefferson]

So what can you tell me about UMN? I'm asking this, because it seems like the least talked about T20. I thought that maybe UMN was a Big Ten school that happened to just pop into the T20 rather recently and randomly, but after going back and looking through the rankings through the years, they've been here since the beginning of the USNWR and as high as 17. Other schools have come (WUSTL) and gone (UC Hastings), but UMN holds its own. It's a legit T20. In short, I've got offers from Vandy and UCLA at sticker, and UMN and WUSTL with some $. I understand that their placement in BigLaw isn't as impressive as the other T15-T20, but is that partly self-selection (a lot of students from Minnesota who want to stay in Minnesota after graduation)? Is a $80k a year job in the Twin Cities equal to a $130k job in NYC, Chicago, et cetera? Honestly, I never thought that I would take UMN over any of these other schools, but I'm starting to consider it. After WUSTL it would be the cheapest option, and I would prefer to live in Minneapolis over Nashville and especially over St. Louis and LA. Also, it seems that outside of the T14 and maybe Texas, that UMN might be your best bet for academia (though it is still a LONG shot, obviously). Also, does this school have any portability? Judges and lawyers seem to think very highly of the place. Is there a reason why it gets overlooked? I know that UCLA, Vandy, and WUSTL do, but is one confined to Minnesota forever if they attend UMN law, haha. The more I research, the more I like the school, but would it really be wise to pass up UCLA, Vandy and WUSTL??? I'm going insane thinking about this right now. I feel like I'm missing something. I've also got offers from W&M and UDub. Lay it on me...

To answer the bolded question, from most of the COL equalizers I've looked at, that's more or less right. Also, fwiw, I'll be taking UMN (unless I strike Big Red gold with the alma mater) over WUSTL (and some others), for, among others, the bolded reasons. Vankwinkle's point about the extreme unlikelihood of academia is valid, but UMN does place into the academy (look at Leiter's data and the other stats on this stuff); the fact that it's consistently there, even if very meekly, I think, says a lot about the caliber of the institution.

I also want to emphasize how awesome the Twin Cities are. Yes, it's cold: buy a friggin' heavier coat and use the skyways (disclosure: maybe I'm just used to harsh winters after 4 years in Ithaca). The COL is (relatively) low, the QOL is high, similarly it's a clean and safe city, and you still have all the amenities of city life. Not a bad fall-back pond to be the biggest fish in--or pond, period, for that matter.

[BoomBoom1986]

I'd be interested on people's thoughts on this, too.

[jay115]

Nobody wants to live there because it's in Minnesota.

Seriously, though, a lot of folks focus on BigLaw opportunities, and Minnesota is probably best viewed as the fourth-best school feeding the Chicago market (after Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern). WUSTL might even make it fifth. When you couple that with the fact that it's fallback would be in the state of Minnesota, and that does mean being willing to live there even after you graduate... it loses a lot of its appeal to people.

UCLA, on the other hand, is the third-best school on the entire West Coast. UT-Austin is the best school in Texas and dominates two BigLaw markets, Dallas and Houston. You have a lot more options, and in sunnier climates.

Nobody should realistically discuss "academia" outside the T14. Yes, they are possible, but the odds are extremely low, and as a 0L you have not yet done anything that could possibly indicate whether you possess the qualities to become one of the chosen few. I don't think academia is realistically possible coming out of UMN, but I don't think it's realistically possible coming out of UCLA or Texas, either, for most people.

I think that if you're willing to live in Minnesota both before and after you graduate, then UMN is a good choice. COL there is lower than Chicago, and that does probably make it a good fallback option. But what is the Minnesota economy like right now? Are there really that many jobs available for lawyers in Minnesota when you graduate? UMN likely does dominate within the state, but you have to ask if it's a state you can afford to live in, and more importantly, if it's a state you'd want to live in long-term. If the answer is "yes", then sure, go there. But if the answer is "no"... law school could become a long, cold winter for you.

I'm going to quibble with this as I know both schools, especially TX, are known for producing professors - Texas produces constitutional law professors and UCLA produces a decent amount of philosophy of law and critical race studies professors. Granted, if you got a JD/PhD from either one in a field they aren't particularly strong in, then you might not teach at Yale Law. However, I do think that schools look to pull in professors who come from stronger law schools and there can only be so many T14 JDs who want to teach law at a lower T1 law school.

[itsmytime10]

Dont get fooled. Minnesota is a great place to live. Visit the city, and hang out downtown over the weekend and you can compare it to Chicago. You dont see the big placement numbers because grads just stay in Minnesota where they are a lot of very good firms. If you want Chicago law it definitely places after, NU, Chicago, Michigan, Illinois, and WUSTL....

[Fast_Fingers]

Based on having a few friends who are 1Ls and going to the March ASW, I consider it a dark horse of a school. The atmosphere is non-competitive, but students do take it very seriously. Most of the faculty are quite young and enthusiastic and the facility is very clean and impressive.

Though it has national reach (especially to DC and LA) most people who graduate prefer to stay in Minnesota, be it for the low costs of living, well-educated people, or beer. The firms there (who take a lot of UMN grads, since the only other schools in the area are TTT) are medium sized, so the median graduate income does look pretty bad in comparison to similar schools which have students frequently going to Chicago.

[09042014]

Nobody wants to live there because it's in Minnesota.

Seriously, though, a lot of folks focus on BigLaw opportunities, and Minnesota is probably best viewed as the fourth-best school feeding the Chicago market (after Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern). WUSTL might even make it fifth. When you couple that with the fact that it's fallback would be in the state of Minnesota, and that does mean being willing to live there even after you graduate... it loses a lot of its appeal to people.

For placement in Chicago

Chicago > Northwestern > Michigan > Illinois > Wustl = Nortre Dame >> Iowa/Minn/Wisco > Indiana = OSU

Minnesota is not good for Chicago placement. But it totally owns the twin city market. ITE that is probably better, since UIUC's jobs are getting taken by Chi/NU/Mich students.

The Midwest state schools are incredibly limited in range. They are pretty much limited to their state.

[scribelaw]

Nobody wants to live there because it's in Minnesota.

Seriously, though, a lot of folks focus on BigLaw opportunities, and Minnesota is probably best viewed as the fourth-best school feeding the Chicago market (after Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern). WUSTL might even make it fifth. When you couple that with the fact that it's fallback would be in the state of Minnesota, and that does mean being willing to live there even after you graduate... it loses a lot of its appeal to people.

For placement in Chicago

Chicago > Northwestern > Michigan > Illinois > Wustl = Nortre Dame >> Iowa/Minn/Wisco > Indiana = OSU

Minnesota is not good for Chicago placement. But it totally owns the twin city market. ITE that is probably better, since UIUC's jobs are getting taken by Chi/NU/Mich students.

The Midwest state schools are incredibly limited in range. They are pretty much limited to their state.

This. There's nothing wrong with going to Minnesota, especially if you can limit debt there, but I wouldn't go unless you're happy practicing in Minneapolis. You can probably still get to Chicago if you're on law review or in the top 10 percent or someting, but it's not something to count on.

[09042014]

This. There's nothing wrong with going to Minnesota, especially if you can limit debt there, but I wouldn't go unless you're happy practicing in Minneapolis. You can probably still get to Chicago if you're on law review or in the top 10 percent or someting, but it's not something to count on.

You used to be able to, but this year UIUC students on LR and top 10% were having a very hard time. Don't go to Minn if you aren't happy settling there.

The twin cities are nice towns, and even Duluth is nice.

[Zeile]

I really appreciate everyone’s input here and it’s great to know that someone else might take UMN over WUSTL. That honestly makes me feel a bit better, haha.
Anyway, we got someone claiming that UMN does have national reach (even to DC and LA) and others saying that you’re stuck in Minneapolis (and is this for the short-term or the long-term? In your opinion, does the degree become portable with work experience?). Does the truth lie somewhere in-between here or what? Any UMN grads/students out there who can comment?

[Zeile]

Oh, and does anyone know how the Twin Cities are doing economically these days? I’ve read that they’re doing better than most places, but what does that really even mean. I don’t think I would mind living there after graduation, so long as I can get a decent paying gig. By decent, I mean like $80-100k.

[vanwinkle]

I'm going to quibble with this as I know both schools, especially TX, are known for producing professors - Texas produces constitutional law professors and UCLA produces a decent amount of philosophy of law and critical race studies professors. Granted, if you got a JD/PhD from either one in a field they aren't particularly strong in, then you might not teach at Yale Law. However, I do think that schools look to pull in professors who come from stronger law schools and there can only be so many T14 JDs who want to teach law at a lower T1 law school.

I didn't mean to say it's impossible, nor did I say that. If you reread what I said, I said that the factors that allow those few who do it to become professors aren't apparent as a 0L and only become apparent after you start law school. As a result I don't think the slim chances of academia are really that significant as a motivating factor in deciding schools in this range.

It's not realistically possible as a 0L to know whether or not you'll have any kind of shot at academia from those schools--it depends on things like grades and ability in legal research and writing, things you can't know how strong you are until after you're in law school. Once you're in those schools, if you turn out to be among the 10% or so that has a shot at academia, then yes, it's possible for you. But as a 0L making a decision you need to realize that it's 90% odds you won't even have a shot at academia at all coming from those schools, and as a result not make it a huge factor in your decision.

These schools should largely be treated as not a possibility for academia by 0Ls because the odds are so small and there's no way to know as a 0L whether you'll make the cut.

[Thomas Jefferson]

I'm going to quibble with this as I know both schools, especially TX, are known for producing professors - Texas produces constitutional law professors and UCLA produces a decent amount of philosophy of law and critical race studies professors. Granted, if you got a JD/PhD from either one in a field they aren't particularly strong in, then you might not teach at Yale Law. However, I do think that schools look to pull in professors who come from stronger law schools and there can only be so many T14 JDs who want to teach law at a lower T1 law school.

I didn't mean to say it's impossible, nor did I say that. If you reread what I said, I said that the factors that allow those few who do it to become professors aren't apparent as a 0L and only become apparent after you start law school. As a result I don't think the slim chances of academia are really that significant as a motivating factor in deciding schools in this range.

It's not realistically possible as a 0L to know whether or not you'll have any kind of shot at academia from those schools--it depends on things like grades and ability in legal research and writing, things you can't know how strong you are until after you're in law school. Once you're in those schools, if you turn out to be among the 10% or so that has a shot at academia, then yes, it's possible for you. But as a 0L making a decision you need to realize that it's 90% odds you won't even have a shot at academia at all coming from those schools, and as a result not make it a huge factor in your decision.

These schools should largely be treated as not a possibility for academia by 0Ls because the odds are so small and there's no way to know as a 0L whether you'll make the cut.

Vanwinkle, your point is more or less valid, but I'm going to quibble a little with it as well. If academia is one's dream, I don't think a 10% chance of having a shot is insignificant if your other options are schools like WUSTL were you really do have NO shot at academia. When comparing incredibly similar schools, such as UMN and WUSTL, I don't see anything wrong with UMN's slight academia placement being one small (note: anything larger than a very small marginal consideration would indeed be foolhardy) piece among the many on the scales weighing each option.

[jay115]

I'm going to quibble with this as I know both schools, especially TX, are known for producing professors - Texas produces constitutional law professors and UCLA produces a decent amount of philosophy of law and critical race studies professors. Granted, if you got a JD/PhD from either one in a field they aren't particularly strong in, then you might not teach at Yale Law. However, I do think that schools look to pull in professors who come from stronger law schools and there can only be so many T14 JDs who want to teach law at a lower T1 law school.

I didn't mean to say it's impossible, nor did I say that. If you reread what I said, I said that the factors that allow those few who do it to become professors aren't apparent as a 0L and only become apparent after you start law school. As a result I don't think the slim chances of academia are really that significant as a motivating factor in deciding schools in this range.

It's not realistically possible as a 0L to know whether or not you'll have any kind of shot at academia from those schools--it depends on things like grades and ability in legal research and writing, things you can't know how strong you are until after you're in law school. Once you're in those schools, if you turn out to be among the 10% or so that has a shot at academia, then yes, it's possible for you. But as a 0L making a decision you need to realize that it's 90% odds you won't even have a shot at academia at all coming from those schools, and as a result not make it a huge factor in your decision.

These schools should largely be treated as not a possibility for academia by 0Ls because the odds are so small and there's no way to know as a 0L whether you'll make the cut.

I'm not really trying to be pissy - but then again, maybe I am bc I'm sick of writing my thesis.

Your response seems to entail two contradictory arguments. You argue that academia should not be a motivating factor to attend law school because:
A. "depends on things like grades and ability in legal research and writing, things you can't know how strong you are until after you're in law school."
B. "But as a 0L making a decision you need to realize that it's 90% odds you won't even have a shot at academia at all coming from those schools" (I'm assuming when you say "those," you mean T20 schools not in the T14, based on this thread)

Of course, both premises could be true. But then you are making a value-judgment claim as to whether one has a better chance at getting into academia from a non-T14 school.

I never said you said it was impossible to get into academia from non-T14 schools. What I did say was that your chances of getting into academia from the T25 vs the T14 isn't as black and white as you make them out to be - because schools have specializations, and it might actually to get a job as a feminist legal prof. from UCLA vs say Northwestern. I'm going to guess that your proffered "10% chance" is arbitrary?

[RVP11]

Nobody wants to live there because it's in Minnesota.

Seriously, though, a lot of folks focus on BigLaw opportunities, and Minnesota is probably best viewed as the fourth-best school feeding the Chicago market (after Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern). WUSTL might even make it fifth.

UIUC and WUSTL definitely make Minnesota 6th, at the very best.

[scribelaw]

Nobody wants to live there because it's in Minnesota.

Seriously, though, a lot of folks focus on BigLaw opportunities, and Minnesota is probably best viewed as the fourth-best school feeding the Chicago market (after Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern). WUSTL might even make it fifth.

UIUC and WUSTL definitely make Minnesota 6th, at the very best.

Seventh. Behind Notre Dame.

[vanwinkle]

Vanwinkle, your point is more or less valid, but I'm going to quibble a little with it as well. If academia is one's dream, I don't think a 10% chance of having a shot is insignificant if your other options are schools like WUSTL were you really do have NO shot at academia. When comparing incredibly similar schools, such as UMN and WUSTL, I don't see anything wrong with UMN's slight academia placement being one small (note: anything larger than a very small marginal consideration would indeed be foolhardy) piece among the many on the scales weighing each option.

I'll agree that all other things being equal it's not a terrible thing to weigh in the small chances of academia. However, I just worry about someone expressing it as anything more than that; something I'm deeply concerned about on this forum is 0Ls putting emphasis on marketing factors that are often unrealistic representations of your post-employment opportunities. I consider academia at T25s to be one of those things. Yes, it's possible, but 0Ls should be fully aware of how limited a possibility it is when making their decision.

I feel like we agree a lot more than we disagree. I hope you'll feel the same way after reading this post.

I'm not really trying to be pissy - but then again, maybe I am bc I'm sick of writing my thesis.

Your response seems to entail two contradictory arguments. You argue that academia should not be a motivating factor to attend law school because:
A. "depends on things like grades and ability in legal research and writing, things you can't know how strong you are until after you're in law school."
B. "But as a 0L making a decision you need to realize that it's 90% odds you won't even have a shot at academia at all coming from those schools" (I'm assuming when you say "those," you mean T20 schools not in the T14, based on this thread)

Of course, both premises could be true. But then you are making a value-judgment claim as to whether one has a better chance at getting into academia from a non-T14 school.

I never said you said it was impossible to get into academia from non-T14 schools. What I did say was that your chances of getting into academia from the T25 vs the T14 isn't as black and white as you make them out to be - because schools have specializations, and it might actually to get a job as a feminist legal prof. from UCLA vs say Northwestern. I'm going to guess that your proffered "10% chance" is arbitrary?

First, I admit the 10% chance thing is arbitrary. I'm exhausted from studying and everything else and I didn't bother to go look up exact numbers. I do know it's very low though, because I'm going to a T10 that's starting to produce decent numbers of professors and even here it's a pretty low chance of doing so. Odds for getting into academia start plummeting pretty rapidly once you go below HYS, and that's a grim reality I'm facing here at my T10 despite doing what I'll call "not badly" here.

I don't think the two premises you mention from my argument are contradictory. Point A explains where those 10% odds come from; it's not arbitrary, it's based on specific factors, but they're not factors you can predict your success at as a 0L. As a result, Point B mentions that you should treat it like you've got a 90% chance of being totally excluded from academia at such a school.

Again, the 10/90 numbers are arbitrary examples, but they're meant to highlight what is generally true: Very low odds of getting academia at these schools, and those odds being based on factors you can't predict your success at until you're in law school and start doing the work.

Having been through most of 1L year now, and having seen what it takes to be successful here, I'm just really wary of anyone using factors for choosing a school that are predicated on a high degree of success. If folks want to use academic placement as a factor, I can't stop them, but I can encourage them to be seriously realistic about how little chance they have of achieving that in schools at this level.

I guess a better way of putting my objection is that there are so many factors that should be more important than academic placement, given the small odds of achieving academia at any schools in this range, that I'm concerned any time someone puts weight on it when deciding between schools.

[Neil]

I really appreciate everyone’s input here and it’s great to know that someone else might take UMN over WUSTL. That honestly makes me feel a bit better, haha.
Anyway, we got someone claiming that UMN does have national reach (even to DC and LA) and others saying that you’re stuck in Minneapolis (and is this for the short-term or the long-term? In your opinion, does the degree become portable with work experience?). Does the truth lie somewhere in-between here or what? Any UMN grads/students out there who can comment?

Well then, I will make you feel even better: I just put down my deposit at the U of MN this morning! This was after visiting Minnesota earlier this month and WUSTL this past weekend. I've always loved the Twin Cities and was impressed with my visit to Mondale Hall. The building is not nearly as nice as Annheuser Busch (sp?) Hall, but it was nice enough and everything else about my visit was top-notch. I'm excited to be going to MN, and I HATE the cold...

[Thomas Jefferson]

I feel like we agree a lot more than we disagree. I hope you'll feel the same way after reading this post.

I do think we're pretty much on the same page.


I also want to add that, IMO, when considering very similar schools, such as what we are talking about ITT, the most important consideration (other than, or perhaps equal with, location/home-market) is money (and the real important number is your expected indebtedness, not how much scholly you get, as COL can vary by a lot in some instances). If you're going to have similar career prospects at two schools, lower debt can give you a lot of leeway to maximize the opportunities that are best for you within those parameters.

[BoomBoom1986]

The OP appears to acknowledge that his chances at academia are slim at UMN, so it’s not like he’s banking on this. Honestly, if you have a few peer schools that are essentially equal in everything else terms of opportunity and money (WUSTL and UMN in this case), then I don’t see why a better shot at academia couldn’t be a reason to choose UMN if academia is a dream of his. If the scale is weighing evenly between two schools when everything else has been factored in, then this is something that could tip the balance toward one or the other, depending on one’s goals. If UMN and WUSTL are the same to the OP in terms of everything else, well, UMN does provide better (even substantially better) shot at academia (maybe 7% instead of 1% and yeah I just made up those numbers).

[motiontodismiss]

Well then, I will make you feel even better: I just put down my deposit at the U of MN this morning! This was after visiting Minnesota earlier this month and WUSTL this past weekend. I've always loved the Twin Cities and was impressed with my visit to Mondale Hall. The building is not nearly as nice as Annheuser Busch (sp?) Hall, but it was nice enough and everything else about my visit was top-notch. I'm excited to be going to MN, and I HATE the cold...

If you can get past the cold I think MSP is a great place to live. Congrats

I wish I was making those decisions right now....I still have to take the LSAT.

[Neil]

Well then, I will make you feel even better: I just put down my deposit at the U of MN this morning! This was after visiting Minnesota earlier this month and WUSTL this past weekend. I've always loved the Twin Cities and was impressed with my visit to Mondale Hall. The building is not nearly as nice as Annheuser Busch (sp?) Hall, but it was nice enough and everything else about my visit was top-notch. I'm excited to be going to MN, and I HATE the cold...

If you can get past the cold I think MSP is a great place to live. Congrats

I wish I was making those decisions right now....I still have to take the LSAT.

Thanks! Hopefully I'll see you there in the fall!

Edit: Fall of 2011, I mean.

[motiontodismiss]

Well then, I will make you feel even better: I just put down my deposit at the U of MN this morning! This was after visiting Minnesota earlier this month and WUSTL this past weekend. I've always loved the Twin Cities and was impressed with my visit to Mondale Hall. The building is not nearly as nice as Annheuser Busch (sp?) Hall, but it was nice enough and everything else about my visit was top-notch. I'm excited to be going to MN, and I HATE the cold...

If you can get past the cold I think MSP is a great place to live. Congrats

I wish I was making those decisions right now....I still have to take the LSAT.

Thanks! Hopefully I'll see you there in the fall!

Edit: Fall of 2011, I mean.

Make that fall of 2012. And that's if I don't get into my other choices, bomb my LSATs, or both.

[Geist13]

Just to give some insight on Minnesota's academic placement, at the March ASW the dean, who was really awesome, said something to the effect of, "If you want to be a professor, go to Yale." He continued on to say that if that's your ultimate goal, Minnesota will probably let you down.

Regarding Minnesota's portability, the two ends of the spectrum are coming from different points of view. The people saying "you're stuck in minnesota" are taking the view of the options available to median and below median students. Top students are absolutely not stuck in Minnesota. They mean, since you cannot know where you will end up on the curve, its best to assume you will be stuck there for the purposes of decision making. The people who say it has national reach, on the other hand, are coming from what the numbers tell us, i.e. that people do get great jobs on both coasts from Minnesota, and this isn't exactly rare. While this is true, you gotta remember that its more competitive on the coasts and so you need better grades to make this a viable option.

When making my decision (I'm to Minnesota unless I get off one of two waitlists) I asked myself if I would be happy living and working in the twin cities. While I want to do well enough to have the option of moving back to the east coast, I would be very comfortable staying in Minnesota. Plus, the twin cities area is the thirteenth largest metropolitan region in the U.S. so it's a decent sized market (not huge, but a very good built in market).