Top Law Schools

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I was a T30 w/ scholarship or T14 at sticker person coming into this cycle, and that is exactly the situation I am in right now.

I wish I had any idea. I'm WLed at every T14 I applied to, so I'm going to have to go with WUSTL $$$ or pseudo-T14 Vandy with one measly $. I'm riding 4 WLs with an above 75th LSAT for every one so I think I've got a fighting chance if I want it... but do I? Is it worth it to deposit, make plans, and then blow that up if Duke or Michigan comes knocking in July, especially when I'd have to drop everything and visit before making the decision to take on 180k instead of 90k? I try and answer that every day and just end up running my brain in circles. Eff me.

Under these circumstances I suppose I'm T1 or bust, though this past week was pretty soulcrushing and felt an awful lot like "bust."

irishman86 wrote:Just wondering what TLSers think.

I am top 14 or bust.

That makes you special.

I guess, before I took the LSAT, I may have been T2 or bust, though I even applied to and seriously considered a few T3s after getting and LSAT that gave me T14 WL and T20 IN numbers. If someone took a gun to my head and said "Columbia at sticker or T30 with 75-100% scholarship", I'd take the T30. In fact, I might take a T2 with a full ride. It's not just that I'm debt-averse, but that I don't want to feel the temptation to take a "BigLAW" job if it were easily available. I'm exercising prior restraint for the good of my social, economic, and QOL principles.

Isn't this just another thread where people are going to pick the tier that they made it into?

Rand M. wrote:Isn't this just another thread where people are going to pick the tier that they made it into?

Aren't they always?

Depends on what you mean:


PRIVATE STICKER: HYS or bust. It's worth noting that the only one of these that would really require true sticker would be HLS, as (at least in my experience), YS are extremely generous with their financial aid while HLS is a bit stingier.

PUBLIC STICKER: I would go to state schools like UGA that have their in-state tuition in the low teens.

HALF-TUITION: CCNMVP

Beyond that, I don't see anything wrong with going to any tier one or tier two with a full scholly. In fact, in retrospect I think the full scholly is a lot smarter even than doing HYS at sticker, particularly for people who don't know what avenue of law they'd like to pursue.

Rand M. wrote:Isn't this just another thread where people are going to pick the tier that they made it into?

I think that might be common, but I flew and visited some T3s even (and haven't withdrawn because I'm still considering them, despite equal or better scholly offers in T30). I'm in at 6 T30 schools, 2 T20, and was WL'd at Duke. I think that not everyone is so prestige-obsessed that USNews caputures the meat of their soul, at least not to the degree of making them take on 20 years of debt (even under the new IBR proposal) if they end up outside of a qualifying public interest concern.

Plus, if I had a 180 and a 4.33 and got into all the schools below HYS with a full ride, I'd take Cornell every day of the week and twice on Sunday. However, without money, that's a crushing debt that is not worth the small additional benefit that Ithaca would provide me in QOL. I had contingencies before I got my LSAT back (took it with food poisoning on no sleep all week after driving 2 hours to the facility in a borrowed vehicle on icy roads...and thought I bombed it):

If 170-plus: (Cornell or Duke with money) or any of the schools in the below contingencies
If 165-plus (166 is what I got): Throw an app to Cornell, but apply to about 25 schools I'd seriously consider - including Stetson, Mercer, Syracuse (if I got their grad fellowship of tuition + 20k/yr.), Case Western, Mich State, Lewis and Clark, Vermont, Santa Clara. All of those schools are T2 or T3 and were way below my numbers. In fact, some of them would have likely offered me their max scholly at an LSAT of 161, much less a 166. Yet, because of their placement in certain fields, I had serious interest in them (and in a few cases, still do).
If 160-plus: Just those schools listed above
Below a 158 or so, I may have just skipped this year, not because I couldn't get in to many of the above schools I like, but because of that debt-aversion. However, if Duquesne offered me a full or near full ride, I may have done that.

Specific cutoffs lke this are abritrary. No one outside this forum gives a crap if your school is T5, T14 or T27. What matters to each of us is different, so boiling your decision down to a number is pretty pointless.

I can go to Chicago at sticker price or Vanderbilt/Texas at half tuition. I did a poll here and Chicago won handily, even though I mentioned how my visit to Chicago left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Now, of course Chicago will give me the best career options, but it's not like I won't get a job coming out of Vandy (not so sure about TX ). There's a difference between choosing Baylor over Texas and choosing Texas over UCLA: one difference matters, one not so much.

The fear and panic around here makes me think I'm at a Tea Party rally sometimes. The "BigLaw or bust!" cries make me laugh, because I'm sure most of those people have no idea what working at a big firm in a big city really means. At the risk of sounding obvious: I don't think many people on this internet message board know what the hell they're talking about. This decision is too personal and too important to make on the basis of minute differences in ranking.

Y or bust.

Eazy E wrote:Specific cutoffs lke this are abritrary. No one outside this forum gives a crap if your school is T5, T14 or T27. What matters to each of us is different, so boiling your decision down to a number is pretty pointless.

I can go to Chicago at sticker price or Vanderbilt/Texas at half tuition. I did a poll here and Chicago won handily, even though I mentioned how my visit to Chicago left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Now, of course Chicago will give me the best career options, but it's not like I won't get a job coming out of Vandy (not so sure about TX ). There's a difference between choosing Baylor over Texas and choosing Texas over UCLA: one difference matters, one not so much.

The fear and panic around here makes me think I'm at a Tea Party rally sometimes. The "BigLaw or bust!" cries make me laugh, because I'm sure most of those people have no idea what working at a big firm in a big city really means. At the risk of sounding obvious: I don't think many people on this internet message board know what the hell they're talking about. This decision is too personal and too important to make on the basis of minute differences in ranking.

I wish you'd tell that to SEO so I could just TTMAR if Vandy won't negotiate

heyguys wrote:Depends on what you mean:


PRIVATE STICKER: HYS or bust. It's worth noting that the only one of these that would really require true sticker would be HLS, as (at least in my experience), YS are extremely generous with their financial aid while HLS is a bit stingier.

PUBLIC STICKER: I would go to state schools like UGA that have their in-state tuition in the low teens.

HALF-TUITION: CCNMVP

Beyond that, I don't see anything wrong with going to any tier one or tier two with a full scholly. In fact, in retrospect I think the full scholly is a lot smarter even than doing HYS at sticker, particularly for people who don't know what avenue of law they'd like to pursue.

Are you equating in-state tuition at a T30 with paying half tuition at CCNMVPB?

stratocophic wrote:

Eazy E wrote:Specific cutoffs lke this are abritrary. No one outside this forum gives a crap if your school is T5, T14 or T27. What matters to each of us is different, so boiling your decision down to a number is pretty pointless.

I can go to Chicago at sticker price or Vanderbilt/Texas at half tuition. I did a poll here and Chicago won handily, even though I mentioned how my visit to Chicago left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Now, of course Chicago will give me the best career options, but it's not like I won't get a job coming out of Vandy (not so sure about TX ). There's a difference between choosing Baylor over Texas and choosing Texas over UCLA: one difference matters, one not so much.

The fear and panic around here makes me think I'm at a Tea Party rally sometimes. The "BigLaw or bust!" cries make me laugh, because I'm sure most of those people have no idea what working at a big firm in a big city really means. At the risk of sounding obvious: I don't think many people on this internet message board know what the hell they're talking about. This decision is too personal and too important to make on the basis of minute differences in ranking.

I wish you'd tell that to SEO so I could just TTMAR if Vandy won't negotiate

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Eazy E wrote:

stratocophic wrote:

Eazy E wrote:Specific cutoffs lke this are abritrary. No one outside this forum gives a crap if your school is T5, T14 or T27. What matters to each of us is different, so boiling your decision down to a number is pretty pointless.

I can go to Chicago at sticker price or Vanderbilt/Texas at half tuition. I did a poll here and Chicago won handily, even though I mentioned how my visit to Chicago left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Now, of course Chicago will give me the best career options, but it's not like I won't get a job coming out of Vandy (not so sure about TX ). There's a difference between choosing Baylor over Texas and choosing Texas over UCLA: one difference matters, one not so much.

The fear and panic around here makes me think I'm at a Tea Party rally sometimes. The "BigLaw or bust!" cries make me laugh, because I'm sure most of those people have no idea what working at a big firm in a big city really means. At the risk of sounding obvious: I don't think many people on this internet message board know what the hell they're talking about. This decision is too personal and too important to make on the basis of minute differences in ranking.

I wish you'd tell that to SEO so I could just TTMAR if Vandy won't negotiate

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The SEO corporate law program is all about the T6/T14 preftige. Not really applicable for many people, and the comment wa not meant to be pointed in any way.

Eazy E wrote:Specific cutoffs lke this are abritrary. No one outside this forum gives a crap if your school is T5, T14 or T27. What matters to each of us is different, so boiling your decision down to a number is pretty pointless.

I can go to Chicago at sticker price or Vanderbilt/Texas at half tuition. I did a poll here and Chicago won handily, even though I mentioned how my visit to Chicago left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Now, of course Chicago will give me the best career options, but it's not like I won't get a job coming out of Vandy (not so sure about TX ). There's a difference between choosing Baylor over Texas and choosing Texas over UCLA: one difference matters, one not so much.

The fear and panic around here makes me think I'm at a Tea Party rally sometimes. The "BigLaw or bust!" cries make me laugh, because I'm sure most of those people have no idea what working at a big firm in a big city really means. At the risk of sounding obvious: I don't think many people on this internet message board know what the hell they're talking about. This decision is too personal and too important to make on the basis of minute differences in ranking.

Yeah. Except for, you know, employers.

Cue T13 trolls in 3..2...1...

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JSUVA2012 wrote:

heyguys wrote:Depends on what you mean:


PRIVATE STICKER: HYS or bust. It's worth noting that the only one of these that would really require true sticker would be HLS, as (at least in my experience), YS are extremely generous with their financial aid while HLS is a bit stingier.

PUBLIC STICKER: I would go to state schools like UGA that have their in-state tuition in the low teens.

HALF-TUITION: CCNMVP

Beyond that, I don't see anything wrong with going to any tier one or tier two with a full scholly. In fact, in retrospect I think the full scholly is a lot smarter even than doing HYS at sticker, particularly for people who don't know what avenue of law they'd like to pursue.

Are you equating in-state tuition at a T30 with paying half tuition at CCNMVPB?

I think they are comparable decisions. Someone electing to paying in-state at UGA presumably knows they will be working in GA, and the debt load will ultimately be low enough that they could realistically work it off. On the other hand, if you're talking going 90k or 80k into debt to attend Cornell etc, you're taking a pretty big risk, imo.

Eazy E wrote:Specific cutoffs lke this are abritrary. No one outside this forum gives a crap if your school is T5, T14 or T27. What matters to each of us is different, so boiling your decision down to a number is pretty pointless.

I can go to Chicago at sticker price or Vanderbilt/Texas at half tuition. I did a poll here and Chicago won handily, even though I mentioned how my visit to Chicago left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Now, of course Chicago will give me the best career options, but it's not like I won't get a job coming out of Vandy (not so sure about TX ). There's a difference between choosing Baylor over Texas and choosing Texas over UCLA: one difference matters, one not so much.

The fear and panic around here makes me think I'm at a Tea Party rally sometimes. The "BigLaw or bust!" cries make me laugh, because I'm sure most of those people have no idea what working at a big firm in a big city really means. At the risk of sounding obvious: I don't think many people on this internet message board know what the hell they're talking about. This decision is too personal and too important to make on the basis of minute differences in ranking.

I'll grant that a lot of people don't know what they are talking about on TLS, but the job market right now is really, really rough. If you don't do well at Vandy these days, you might come out without a job. Sadly, same same for Chicago. The differences is that you have a real, tangible increase in chances at procuring the employment that you want from Chicago. Everyone will value those percentages differently...

heyguys wrote:

JSUVA2012 wrote:

heyguys wrote:Depends on what you mean:


PRIVATE STICKER: HYS or bust. It's worth noting that the only one of these that would really require true sticker would be HLS, as (at least in my experience), YS are extremely generous with their financial aid while HLS is a bit stingier.

PUBLIC STICKER: I would go to state schools like UGA that have their in-state tuition in the low teens.

HALF-TUITION: CCNMVP

Beyond that, I don't see anything wrong with going to any tier one or tier two with a full scholly. In fact, in retrospect I think the full scholly is a lot smarter even than doing HYS at sticker, particularly for people who don't know what avenue of law they'd like to pursue.

Are you equating in-state tuition at a T30 with paying half tuition at CCNMVPB?

I think they are comparable decisions. Someone electing to paying in-state at UGA presumably knows they will be working in GA, and the debt load will ultimately be low enough that they could realistically work it off. On the other hand, if you're talking going 90k or 80k into debt to attend Cornell etc, you're taking a pretty big risk, imo.

You realize in-state tuition at a school like UGA is not far from being the same as half tuition at a T14, right?

This may sound stupid to people who frequent in law school ranking discussions, but just to be sure, Tier 1 is 1-50 right?

nascent wrote:This may sound stupid to people who frequent in law school ranking discussions, but just to be sure, Tier 1 is 1-50 right?

It depends on the context. USNWR says that the first 100 schools are Tier 1 and the subsequent schools are Tiers 3 and 4. This leads many to simply divide those hundred schools into two groups, thus creating "Tier 2." According to USNWR there is no Tier 2 anymore, but people still mentally divide them this way. So essentially, Tier 1 is probably 1-50, but in any sort of USNWR specific discussion, Tier 1 is 1-100.

nascent wrote:This may sound stupid to people who frequent in law school ranking discussions, but just to be sure, Tier 1 is 1-50 right?

1-6 for the purposes of this conversation.

Kohinoor wrote:

nascent wrote:This may sound stupid to people who frequent in law school ranking discussions, but just to be sure, Tier 1 is 1-50 right?

1-6 for the purposes of this conversation.

You are joking, right.