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What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:24 pm
by Padimud
I am in a position where it seems like I am changing my mind daily on where to attend law school. Here is a little about me and my preferences and your marking the choice you would choose and giving an explanation would be greatly appreciated.
I want to focus on Corporate Law, I am undecided on the transactional aspect or litigation but that is the focus. I am married with a daughter, so social life isn't a real consideration, I just want the best education at the best overall value.
We have no preferences on where we would like to ultimately practice. I grew up in the Mountain West and think I would like to practice here but we have never experienced the East Coast or Midwest and wouldn't mind attending school there as long as there is a chance if it becomes evident that we want the West to come back.
I realize that my options ranged from low rank (decent market) ASU for free, from paying still a substantial amount at higher rank and more prestigious W&M. So what would you do, and why?
Thanks in advance for helping with this FINAL DECISION!
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:52 pm
by Padimud
Does anyone have any reasons why one choice would be better than the next?
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:09 pm
by Burgstaller04
I personally would go with the best ranking with a full ride unless you are really worried about the GPA requirement. If you are worried about it then head to Tempe. On a side note regarding ASU, law school will give you the summer off and you could get the heck out of the 120 degree temps. I've been there in July. It's sick.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:24 am
by Padimud
If giving the choice, where would you all live, Colorado, Arizona, or Virginia?
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:27 am
by JuTMSY4
Padimud wrote:If giving the choice, where would you all live, Colorado, Arizona, or Virginia?
That's more of a choice for you. My personal opinion as that law school is not the time to say "Maybe I'd like to live on a different coast," but to each his own. If a new location makes you miserable, all of these law schools will keep you, relatively speaking, locked into their areas. Obviously, you could transfer, but that's something few recommend hanging your hat on (myself included).
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:50 pm
by KNW13
+1 - from what I've read it's best to go to law school where you wish to practice, generally speaking.
Sometimes easier said than done. So I see your dilemma. If you can, visit each school to get a firm grasp on where you're most comfortable, it will be 3 years of your life at the minimum.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:27 pm
by Padimud
KNW13 wrote:+1 - from what I've read it's best to go to law school where you wish to practice, generally speaking.
Sometimes easier said than done. So I see your dilemma. If you can, visit each school to get a firm grasp on where you're most comfortable, it will be 3 years of your life at the minimum.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:37 am
by KNW13
If it was me making this decision I would try to narrow from either Colorado, Iowa, or Arizona State but those are mostly personal reasons varying from location to family and weather in the event I get free time I like to be outside
I'm currently in the state of Colorado which is where I finished my undergrad degree, and really enjoy it out here, but almost all of my family resides in Iowa (and is where I grew up), family is always a huge role, and finally I also have relatives in AZ and from my visits down there I can't say a bad thing about Phoenix, with the exception of 100+ degree days in the summer where even being in a pool isn't going to keep you cool.
Take this all with a grain of salt obviously as the factors I described have nothing to do with the law schools.
All are great choices, generally speaking.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:39 am
by TTH
Padimud wrote:If giving the choice, where would you all live, Colorado, Arizona, or Virginia?
Colorado, but mainly because I'm from the midwest and I've never been there. I hear QOL in Denver is really nice, though.
I'd try to use the money you received at Iowa to leverage more out of Colorado.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:30 pm
by Padimud
Is there any reason I should hold on to my belief that W & M is above the rest in the Prestige category? Or that W & M will allow me the most opportunity outside of any one state's borders?
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:05 am
by Padimud
Is there any reputation difference between the schools?
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:22 am
by KNW13
Based on your choices, I'm guessing William & Mary & Iowa have "higher prestige" due to their historical higher rankings.
I am only inferring this from past rankings but it appears schools ranked higher have higher prestige and therefore the ability to mobilize your degree from coast to coast may be "easier" depending on your career focus. Whereas schools ranked lower appear to have stronger reputations in their region and lower mobility across the country.
William & Mary may be perceived to have better reputation based on its east coast location, ranking and school history -- but that's merely my opinion.
I'm sure others have further input.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:44 pm
by TTH
Padimud wrote:Is there any reason I should hold on to my belief that W & M is above the rest in the Prestige category? Or that W & M will allow me the most opportunity outside of any one state's borders?
W&M might be a little more prestigious but not a ton of laypeople have heard of it, and it's certainly not nationally portable. Settle in the market you want to be in after graduation.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:21 pm
by keg411
Since you want to be in the West, I would eliminate both Iowa and W&M. Though they are higher ranked, they don't fit your needs.
This leaves ASU and Colorado. First - find out what the curve is at Colorado. If it's median or worse, then pick Colorado. If it would be any harder to keep, pick the full ride at ASU. If you are debt adverse and really don't want loans or want minimal loans (since you have a family this may be preferable), then just go to ASU since it's all guaranteed.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:50 am
by Padimud
You make it sound like it should be so easy. I have no preference on staying West, my family is here but that does not necessarily mean I need to be. So take out the element of preference of end location and does the consideration change?
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:07 am
by Burgstaller04
Not if you're still scared of debt. ASU is the better choice for that consideration.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:25 am
by jdhonest
Padimud wrote:KNW13 wrote:+1 - from what I've read it's best to go to law school where you wish to practice, generally speaking.
Sometimes easier said than done. So I see your dilemma. If you can, visit each school to get a firm grasp on where you're most comfortable, it will be 3 years of your life at the minimum.
Realizing this. . . I asked your preference not mine.
Is it too late to apply to a law school in Assholeville? You'd fit in perfectly.
And for the record, William & Mary is NOT prestigious. You might find another baby's mama by name dropping W&M at the local Target or youth league soccer game, but younger and more savvy assholes will know better.
My "preference" is that you let the kid pick. She has to put up with you for the next 3 years...
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:35 am
by Padimud
Wow - didn't mean to step on your toes. Just throwing out a question of what would you do if in my shoes. Didn't realize the context was coming across as so arrogant to some.
I realize William and Mary is no Harvard. Thanks for the reminder.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:45 pm
by Jerome
Disclosure: Colorado native.
That written, I would base my decision on minimizing debt while maximizing both educational quality and future job prospects. On that, I would choose Iowa. You can place in the west with a JD from Iowa (look at their OCI firms, which includes a number of very good firms out in CO, WA, CA, and AZ). Additionally, if you want to practice corporate law, they have a well regarded corporate law journal and program.
Boulder, while a cool town, is massively expensive, and you'd have debt substantial when you were done, and would be limited to the west. I think Iowa has greater reach, and your offer there is excellent.
As much as I would like you to pass up the Iowa money (in the hopes that it might get reallocated to ME), I would go to Iowa for sure. Its prestige is solid and is a good school - that combined with their aid offer should blow W&M out of the water.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:24 pm
by Padimud
Jerome wrote:Disclosure: Colorado native.
That written, I would base my decision on minimizing debt while maximizing both educational quality and future job prospects. On that, I would choose Iowa. You can place in the west with a JD from Iowa (look at their OCI firms, which includes a number of very good firms out in CO, WA, CA, and AZ). Additionally, if you want to practice corporate law, they have a well regarded corporate law journal and program.
Boulder, while a cool town, is massively expensive, and you'd have debt substantial when you were done, and would be limited to the west. I think Iowa has greater reach, and your offer there is excellent.
As much as I would like you to pass up the Iowa money (in the hopes that it might get reallocated to ME), I would go to Iowa for sure. Its prestige is solid and is a good school - that combined with their aid offer should blow W&M out of the water.
Thanks for the insight. All that said, Iowa is not going to be the destination. My wife and I have determined it will be W&M or Arizona St. How does that change the discussion? If Colorado and Iowa are no longer options and all one is left with is W & M or ASU then how do the two offers compare.
Note: ASU's offer is just shy of a full ride, I would have to pay $10,000 in the third year.
Jerome: I will gladly give you my Iowa money as soon as I am done using it as a negotiating chip.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:29 pm
by Puffy
I grew up 15 mins from W&M. Trust me when I tell you that committing yourself to three years in Williamsburg would be one of the biggest mistakes in your life.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:29 pm
by 09042014
Iowa, and drop out if you don't make the cut.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:31 pm
by darknightbegins
Padimud wrote:Jerome wrote:Disclosure: Colorado native.
That written, I would base my decision on minimizing debt while maximizing both educational quality and future job prospects. On that, I would choose Iowa. You can place in the west with a JD from Iowa (look at their OCI firms, which includes a number of very good firms out in CO, WA, CA, and AZ). Additionally, if you want to practice corporate law, they have a well regarded corporate law journal and program.
Boulder, while a cool town, is massively expensive, and you'd have debt substantial when you were done, and would be limited to the west. I think Iowa has greater reach, and your offer there is excellent.
As much as I would like you to pass up the Iowa money (in the hopes that it might get reallocated to ME), I would go to Iowa for sure. Its prestige is solid and is a good school - that combined with their aid offer should blow W&M out of the water.
Thanks for the insight. All that said, Iowa is not going to be the destination. My wife and I have determined it will be W&M or Arizona St. How does that change the discussion? If Colorado and Iowa are no longer options and all one is left with is W & M or ASU then how do the two offers compare.
Note: ASU's offer is just shy of a full ride, I would have to pay $10,000 in the third year.
Jerome: I will gladly give you my Iowa money as soon as I am done using it as a negotiating chip.
I think William and Mary hold's some prestige. Its basically the second best law school in the state of Virginia and has some reach into DC. This is why its my top choice, got waitlisted there and not holding my breath. I just really like William and Mary...although the town sucks ass.
If I were you I'd take ASU. Paying very little and in a pretty good market. I got waitlisted at Iowa but I hate the cold so I'm likely not going there, if they had thrown some money at me I might have changed my mind. Enjoy the sun at ASU and little debt.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:22 pm
by Jerome
Padimud wrote:Jerome wrote:Disclosure: Colorado native.
That written, I would base my decision on minimizing debt while maximizing both educational quality and future job prospects. On that, I would choose Iowa. You can place in the west with a JD from Iowa (look at their OCI firms, which includes a number of very good firms out in CO, WA, CA, and AZ). Additionally, if you want to practice corporate law, they have a well regarded corporate law journal and program.
Boulder, while a cool town, is massively expensive, and you'd have debt substantial when you were done, and would be limited to the west. I think Iowa has greater reach, and your offer there is excellent.
As much as I would like you to pass up the Iowa money (in the hopes that it might get reallocated to ME), I would go to Iowa for sure. Its prestige is solid and is a good school - that combined with their aid offer should blow W&M out of the water.
Thanks for the insight. All that said, Iowa is not going to be the destination. My wife and I have determined it will be W&M or Arizona St. How does that change the discussion? If Colorado and Iowa are no longer options and all one is left with is W & M or ASU then how do the two offers compare.
Note: ASU's offer is just shy of a full ride, I would have to pay $10,000 in the third year.
Jerome: I will gladly give you my Iowa money as soon as I am done using it as a negotiating chip.
Mighty kind of you. Just let the admissions office know. I'll send you beer/whiskey as a thank you.
In all seriousness, I'd take ASU. Places well in the west (this is dated, but helpful nonetheless:
http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent. ... t=expresso) and having minimal debt, especially with a kid, is essential. What WM has in prestige I think ASU makes up for in (a) scholarship and (b) western job prospects.
Good luck.
Re: What would you do? I NEED YOUR HELP!
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:54 pm
by darknightbegins
Jerome wrote:Padimud wrote:Jerome wrote:Disclosure: Colorado native.
That written, I would base my decision on minimizing debt while maximizing both educational quality and future job prospects. On that, I would choose Iowa. You can place in the west with a JD from Iowa (look at their OCI firms, which includes a number of very good firms out in CO, WA, CA, and AZ). Additionally, if you want to practice corporate law, they have a well regarded corporate law journal and program.
Boulder, while a cool town, is massively expensive, and you'd have debt substantial when you were done, and would be limited to the west. I think Iowa has greater reach, and your offer there is excellent.
As much as I would like you to pass up the Iowa money (in the hopes that it might get reallocated to ME), I would go to Iowa for sure. Its prestige is solid and is a good school - that combined with their aid offer should blow W&M out of the water.
Thanks for the insight. All that said, Iowa is not going to be the destination. My wife and I have determined it will be W&M or Arizona St. How does that change the discussion? If Colorado and Iowa are no longer options and all one is left with is W & M or ASU then how do the two offers compare.
Note: ASU's offer is just shy of a full ride, I would have to pay $10,000 in the third year.
Jerome: I will gladly give you my Iowa money as soon as I am done using it as a negotiating chip.
Mighty kind of you. Just let the admissions office know. I'll send you beer/whiskey as a thank you.
In all seriousness, I'd take ASU. Places well in the west (this is dated, but helpful nonetheless:
http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent. ... t=expresso) and having minimal debt, especially with a kid, is essential. What WM has in prestige I think ASU makes up for in (a) scholarship and (b) western job prospects.
Good luck.
I agree. Unless you want to live in Virginia or have interest in the DC market I'd take ASU.