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I want to work in Texas (hopefully Austin (hopefully Fullbright & Javorsky)). I have talked to some guys I went to high school with who are 1L at UT. They of course say everything is great. Then I have a friend who is a 3L that says there has been an influx of T14 grads coming back to Texas making the market more competitive. She is saying you still need to be up there in class rank to get a great job in Texas these days (from UT).

What schools place the best in Texas? I dont want to bet on me finishing in the top 10%. I want to come back to Texas with a degree that would almost secure me a top job (assume top half of my class).

quetzalcoatl wrote:I want to work in Texas (hopefully Austin (hopefully Fullbright & Javorsky)). I have talked to some guys I went to high school with who are 1L at UT. They of course say everything is great. Then I have a friend who is a 3L that says there has been an influx of T14 grads coming back to Texas making the market more competitive. She is saying you still need to be up there in class rank to get a great job in Texas these days (from UT).

What schools place the best in Texas? I dont want to bet on me finishing in the top 10%. I want to come back to Texas with a degree that would almost secure me a top job (assume top half of my class).

Your post seems to answer your own question (unless I'm missing something).

quetzalcoatl wrote:I want to work in Texas (hopefully Austin (hopefully Fullbright & Javorsky)). I have talked to some guys I went to high school with who are 1L at UT. They of course say everything is great. Then I have a friend who is a 3L that says there has been an influx of T14 grads coming back to Texas making the market more competitive. She is saying you still need to be up there in class rank to get a great job in Texas these days (from UT).

What schools place the best in Texas? I dont want to bet on me finishing in the top 10%. I want to come back to Texas with a degree that would almost secure me a top job (assume top half of my class).

You probably won't get F&J at median anywhere

quetzalcoatl wrote:I want to work in Texas (hopefully Austin (hopefully Fullbright & Javorsky)). I have talked to some guys I went to high school with who are 1L at UT. They of course say everything is great. Then I have a friend who is a 3L that says there has been an influx of T14 grads coming back to Texas making the market more competitive. She is saying you still need to be up there in class rank to get a great job in Texas these days (from UT).

What schools place the best in Texas? I dont want to bet on me finishing in the top 10%. I want to come back to Texas with a degree that would almost secure me a top job (assume top half of my class).

That is true, but it would be true coming from most of the T14 as well (at least at the big firms). Don't be fooled into thinking a firm is going to hire someone who is median at Georgetown over some in the top 20% at UT just because Georgetown is T14.

Dick Whitman wrote:

quetzalcoatl wrote:I want to work in Texas (hopefully Austin (hopefully Fullbright & Javorsky)). I have talked to some guys I went to high school with who are 1L at UT. They of course say everything is great. Then I have a friend who is a 3L that says there has been an influx of T14 grads coming back to Texas making the market more competitive. She is saying you still need to be up there in class rank to get a great job in Texas these days (from UT).

What schools place the best in Texas? I dont want to bet on me finishing in the top 10%. I want to come back to Texas with a degree that would almost secure me a top job (assume top half of my class).

That is true, but it would be true coming from most of the T14 as well (at least at the big firms). Don't be fooled into thinking a firm is going to hire someone who is median at Georgetown over some in the top 20% at UT just because Georgetown is T14.

yeah but what about median at a t14 vs median at texas?

I think your expectations are way off. You could go to Yale, and that wouldn't guarantee you a job at Fullbright. If your goal is BigLaw, I don't see how you can achieve it without finishing near the top of your class, and even then you're bot going to be able to hand select the firm.

JazzOne wrote:I think your expectations are way off. You could go to Yale, and that wouldn't guarantee you a job at Fullbright. If your goal is BigLaw, I don't see how you can achieve it without finishing near the top of your class, and even then you're bot going to be able to hand select the firm.

TITCR

twert wrote:

Dick Whitman wrote:

quetzalcoatl wrote:I want to work in Texas (hopefully Austin (hopefully Fullbright & Javorsky)). I have talked to some guys I went to high school with who are 1L at UT. They of course say everything is great. Then I have a friend who is a 3L that says there has been an influx of T14 grads coming back to Texas making the market more competitive. She is saying you still need to be up there in class rank to get a great job in Texas these days (from UT).

What schools place the best in Texas? I dont want to bet on me finishing in the top 10%. I want to come back to Texas with a degree that would almost secure me a top job (assume top half of my class).

That is true, but it would be true coming from most of the T14 as well (at least at the big firms). Don't be fooled into thinking a firm is going to hire someone who is median at Georgetown over some in the top 20% at UT just because Georgetown is T14.

yeah but what about median at a t14 vs median at texas?

Neither one will receive an offer from Fullbright.

JazzOne, I've heard top quarter at UT has a shot at Big3. T/F?

What I was really asking is if for Texas in paticular there are certain t14s that do better. Maybe Duke b/c it is southern? or would a better north east school, say Penn, place higher (ceteris paribus)?

edit: lets say top quarter Penn vs. top 10% UT

If you want to work in Texas, and you have ties to Texas (friends/family there, etc), then I would choose the best T14 you can get into.

I looked through the NALP directory awhile back and every single fairly big Texas firm went to UVA in '08, which was the only out of state school to have that distinction. Quite a few went to Harvard, but after that it was hit or miss.

However, I'm pretty sure if you want Austin biglaw you will either have to go to UT or have gone to UT for undergrad.

I have heard that Duke and UVA send a higher number of grads to Texas than other T14s (probably due to self selection), but I don't have any statistics for you. I do however have a friend who works at V&E Dallas who said "if your choice is between UT or those other schools, go where you think you'll be happiest and do the best because we take grads from all over-as long as they have the grades".

if you get in-state tuition at texas and want to work in Texas, I can't imagine going elsewhere unless you can get into YHS

T14 grads with Texas ties may have a slight advantage over UT grads simply because they are rarer, but the difference is going to be minimal. A median T14 grad may have an advantage over a median UT grad, but that's about as far as the advantage goes. Of the T14, UVA seems to send the most people to Texas.

Keep in mind that Austin is an entirely different market from the rest of Texas. UT beats everyone here. The Austin market is very difficult, and if you aren't a UT Law graduate, you need serious Austin ties - preferably by having grown up here or by having gone to UT undergrad.

IE, at the Baker Botts office in Austin, there are 55 attorneys, ~35 of which are UT grads, and only 6 of which are T14 grads. Of the 6 T14 grads, 4 of them did their undergrad at UT.

hmm I had always thought if you want to stay in TX, go to UT unless you get into HYS. Now i am debating, Duke with $$ or UT with $$. I have never been to North Carolina... no idea what it's like there.

Still waiting to hear from UVA, which would be my top choice for TX as long as I got some scholarship.

Also CCN v. TX for TX?? Deciding between that, too

Something worth considering: Imagine two worlds, one in which you go to Columbia, the other in which you go to Texas. Now further imagine you are just below median (awww!) at both schools after 1L.

At texas, you're hosed. A year of your life and quite possible a lot of money and you'll be hussling. You'll get a job, no doubt - you may even make a good career out of it, but you have officially missed your one big shot.

At Columbia, TX biglaw is going to be only a remote possibility - but the rest of the country, and especially NYC, will still be solidly in contention (assuming ITE eases up even slightly).

I realize that you want to work in Texas, but at some point - for you - it's possible that the pragmatics of the situation warrant keeping more options open at this point.

YMMV. Everyone has different priorities. If you're young, single, looking to the law as a means of upward socio-economic mobility and like Texas I suggest going to the better school and keeping options open. If you're older, married / with significant roots in Texas, and have legal desires in addition to or beyond big law then maybe UT makes sense.

disco_barred wrote:Something worth considering: Imagine two worlds, one in which you go to Columbia, the other in which you go to Texas. Now further imagine you are just below median (awww!) at both schools after 1L.

At texas, you're hosed. A year of your life and quite possible a lot of money and you'll be hussling. You'll get a job, no doubt - you may even make a good career out of it, but you have officially missed your one big shot.

At Columbia, TX biglaw is going to be only a remote possibility - but the rest of the country, and especially NYC, will still be solidly in contention (assuming ITE eases up even slightly).

I realize that you want to work in Texas, but at some point - for you - it's possible that the pragmatics of the situation warrant keeping more options open at this point.

YMMV. Everyone has different priorities. If you're young, single, looking to the law as a means of upward socio-economic mobility and like Texas I suggest going to the better school and keeping options open. If you're older, married / with significant roots in Texas, and have legal desires in addition to or beyond big law then maybe UT makes sense.

This isn't directly aimed at you, because I completely agree with what you are saying, but:

This post almost perfectly explains an attitude on this site that is gut-wrenching.

Esc wrote:T14 grads with Texas ties may have a slight advantage over UT grads simply because they are rarer, but the difference is going to be minimal. A median T14 grad may have an advantage over a median UT grad, but that's about as far as the advantage goes. Of the T14, UVA seems to send the most people to Texas.

Keep in mind that Austin is an entirely different market from the rest of Texas. UT beats everyone here. The Austin market is very difficult, and if you aren't a UT Law graduate, you need serious Austin ties - preferably by having grown up here or by having gone to UT undergrad.

IE, at the Baker Botts office in Austin, there are 55 attorneys, ~35 of which are UT grads, and only 6 of which are T14 grads. Of the 6 T14 grads, 4 of them did their undergrad at UT.

Im born and raised in texas, went to UG texas, and I can BBQ like no other (I have ties).

Great Satchmo wrote:This post almost perfectly explains an attitude on this site that is gut-wrenching.

hehe, I'm curious exactly what you mean by that?

disco_barred wrote:

Great Satchmo wrote:This post almost perfectly explains an attitude on this site that is gut-wrenching.

hehe, I'm curious exactly what you mean by that?

Just a guess, but I think its the "t14 or my life is over" attitude

disco_barred wrote:Something worth considering: Imagine two worlds, one in which you go to Columbia, the other in which you go to Texas. Now further imagine you are just below median (awww!) at both schools after 1L.

At texas, you're hosed. A year of your life and quite possible a lot of money and you'll be hussling. You'll get a job, no doubt - you may even make a good career out of it, but you have officially missed your one big shot.

At Columbia, TX biglaw is going to be only a remote possibility - but the rest of the country, and especially NYC, will still be solidly in contention (assuming ITE eases up even slightly).

I realize that you want to work in Texas, but at some point - for you - it's possible that the pragmatics of the situation warrant keeping more options open at this point.

YMMV. Everyone has different priorities. If you're young, single, looking to the law as a means of upward socio-economic mobility and like Texas I suggest going to the better school and keeping options open. If you're older, married / with significant roots in Texas, and have legal desires in addition to or beyond big law then maybe UT makes sense.

well I actually was referencing NYU, should have specified. I don't know what kind of national reach NYU has. Also, for me, money is a factor. With in-state tuition and a scholarship at UT, I don't know if NYU is worth sticker or close to sticker in the long run. If I go to UT and perform poorly, at least I won't have spent loads of money on law school (obviously, I don't expect to do poorly, but who expects that?)
And I do know that in the long run I would want to come back to Texas, even if I spent some time in other parts of the country. My family is here and that is important to me.

So I'm really torn. I am aware that NYU is a better school, but my question is - will I get a better job in Texas/around this region of the country - if I am an NYU grad as opposed to a UT grad?

same boat as me. UT with money or chicago sticker (the two ends of my spectrum)

At equal class rank, I'd take almost any T14 w/ Texas ties over UT.

JSUVA2012 wrote:At equal class rank, I'd take almost any T14 w/ Texas ties over UT.

I've seen you advocate this general principle and I agree to an extent, but how do you gain access to a market if the firms from there don't interview at the school you choose to attend? For Texas I would understand UVA since all the firms do go there, but won't it be harder going to NYU where you won't have the same access? Dumb 0L here, but I would think it would be much harder to land a 2L SA position submitting a resume as opposed to going through OCI, is this inaccurate?