Top Law Schools

Edited to protect the hopeful

musclemilk2 wrote:Hey everyone, I've been reading a lot of info on here and have been going nuts with anxiety trying to predict my own cycle. This question is about the early decision option at UVA. I applied to UVA and most of the other t14 and UT-Austin last month with an LSAT above the UVA 75th and a GPA below their median but above their 25th (172/3.7ish). I am interested in BigLaw after graduating, but probably in the south (Houston, Atlanta, or FL probably). My question is should I send in the ED to UVA and just deal with paying sticker there or should I wait it out and most likely end up on the waitlist there (which it seems like is their go to with people with numbers similar to mine) and see where I get in? Like I said, I am interested in working in the south (and am pretty cold-averse), and I feel that UVA would be a good fit because of the college atmosphere that other schools in my range don't really have. Any thoughts going either way would really help, I don't do well with waiting and hearing some reassurance would be great.

Thanks.

Personally, I would if I were in your shoes. ASAP.

Is it the case though that if I ED I am giving up all chances at $$? I can't really handle 63k a year in loans (or at least would prefer not to have to and I think I could get money at lower ranked schools like GULC and UT). Also, is there any way to get scholarship $$ for years 2 and 3 like if you're in the top of the class after year 1?

musclemilk2 wrote:Is it the case though that if I ED I am giving up all chances at $$? I can't really handle 63k a year in loans (or at least would prefer not to have to and I think I could get money at lower ranked schools like GULC and UT). Also, is there any way to get scholarship $$ for years 2 and 3 like if you're in the top of the class after year 1?

u might not get money this year if you ed

musclemilk2 wrote:Is it the case though that if I ED I am giving up all chances at $$? I can't really handle 63k a year in loans (or at least would prefer not to have to and I think I could get money at lower ranked schools like GULC and UT). Also, is there any way to get scholarship $$ for years 2 and 3 like if you're in the top of the class after year 1?

UVA does not consider whether you ED when awarding scholarships. Students in prior years have gotten significant scholarships despite applying ED. However, there's no guarantee you'll get $$ if you ED, and you'll have to live with whatever they give you.

Scholarships for 2Ls and 3Ls are apparently somewhat rare. I haven't done much research into this yet, but I would not plan on hoping for more scholarship money than what you get offered upon acceptance.

If you ED you usually don't get as much money as you would if you were to RD. I'd probably wait it out if I were you.

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thanks for the quick answers! i just want to make sure, if i wait a couple weeks and see where i get in and get waitlisted at UVA in the meantime I can't ED after that right to show them I will go if admitted?

musclemilk2 wrote:thanks for the quick answers! i just want to make sure, if i wait a couple weeks and see where i get in and get waitlisted at UVA in the meantime I can't ED after that right to show them I will go if admitted?

i faced this decision last week with lesser numbers...if youd be absolutely fine at UVa and wouldnt regret possibly missing out on ccn (bmp is pretty much the same as v) then fax in a form and you'll get a phone call the very next day ending ur cycle

Rock Chalk wrote:But it definitely seems like UVA is drawing much more heavily from the ED pile. Makes sense for them, increases their ranking while saving them scholarship money, but it sucks for us.

This is false information. UVA will give out the same amount of money as it has, and it will continue to not consider ED status when doing so. They have an interest in continuing to do what they've been doing, which is award scholarships regardless of ED status, as it will continue to encourage people to apply ED.

Also, one of the factors that goes into USNWR rankings is per-capita expenditures on education factors including financial aid, so it's to UVA's benefit to not "save" scholarship money. They want to award all the financial aid they can afford to give out, it's in their best interest.

A lot of people on TLS fail to understand how things work and yet make blanket statements about things anyway.

I'm pretty sure you cant ED off the waitlist. I think if you specify that you will go to UVA if accepted in a LOCI then they will flag your application.

jmaan wrote:

musclemilk2 wrote:thanks for the quick answers! i just want to make sure, if i wait a couple weeks and see where i get in and get waitlisted at UVA in the meantime I can't ED after that right to show them I will go if admitted?

i faced this decision last week with lesser numbers...if youd be absolutely fine at UVa and wouldnt regret possibly missing out on ccn (bmp is pretty much the same as v) then fax in a form and you'll get a phone call the very next day ending ur cycle

yeuh i dont think i would be happy at ccn. i am a pretty big prestige whore, but i just dont like the long winters, cold weather, and HUGE cities i feel like ccn would bring, and honestly while UVa may not have all the lay prestige of columbia its a pretty damn great school. ive got a lot of thinking to do but im leaning towards that ED. its very exciting.

You'll probably get $$ from Duke...? I think your numbers are good enough to wait it out, but whatevs.

fortissimo wrote:You'll probably get $$ from Duke...? I think your numbers are good enough to wait it out, but whatevs.

i was put on priority reserve at duke

musclemilk2 wrote:

jmaan wrote:

musclemilk2 wrote:thanks for the quick answers! i just want to make sure, if i wait a couple weeks and see where i get in and get waitlisted at UVA in the meantime I can't ED after that right to show them I will go if admitted?

i faced this decision last week with lesser numbers...if youd be absolutely fine at UVa and wouldnt regret possibly missing out on ccn (bmp is pretty much the same as v) then fax in a form and you'll get a phone call the very next day ending ur cycle

yeuh i dont think i would be happy at ccn. i am a pretty big prestige whore, but i just dont like the long winters, cold weather, and HUGE cities i feel like ccn would bring, and honestly while UVa may not have all the lay prestige of columbia its a pretty damn great school. ive got a lot of thinking to do but im leaning towards that ED. its very exciting.

thats what i did and im very happy with my decision...think about it..sooner u sign, sooner u can look for a place and wat not.

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musclemilk2 wrote:

fortissimo wrote:You'll probably get $$ from Duke...? I think your numbers are good enough to wait it out, but whatevs.

i was put on priority reserve at duke

Weird. Bad PS? Bad softs? Then I don't know...if there's something wrong with your app consider ED-ing, but if I had those numbers I'd probably wait it out.

I don't think anything could be more compelling than this for you to ED:

http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ,8&type=jd

The acceptance rate for 172/3.65-3.78 last year was abysmal, and those TWO kids who did get in, while they both got scholarship money, got very little. ED, and do it quickly.


Oh, and one of the two acceptances was in-state, and the other one has some pretty great softs.

5ky wrote:I don't think anything could be more compelling than this for you to ED:

http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ,8&type=jd

The acceptance rate for 172/3.65-3.78 last year was abysmal, and those TWO kids who did get in, while they both got scholarship money, got very little. ED, and do it quickly.

So weird. Almost all of those people got 50k+ at Duke. One person got 72k...what's wrong with OP's app?

5ky wrote:I don't think anything could be more compelling than this for you to ED:

http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ,8&type=jd

The acceptance rate for 172/3.65-3.78 last year was abysmal, and those TWO kids who did get in, while they both got scholarship money, got very little. ED, and do it quickly.

Wow that is huge. Thank you for showing me that, I am just not familiar enough with a lot of these resources. That is a pretty big reason right there.

fortissimo wrote:

5ky wrote:I don't think anything could be more compelling than this for you to ED:

http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ,8&type=jd

The acceptance rate for 172/3.65-3.78 last year was abysmal, and those TWO kids who did get in, while they both got scholarship money, got very little. ED, and do it quickly.

So weird. Almost all of those people got 50k+ at Duke. One person got 72k...what's wrong with OP's app?

I think the reason for my PR at Duke is that my personal statement had a pretty strong target about the program I am interested in and all the schools I applied to are very strong in that program (but Duke is not) so my statement was a little weak. I think that made it obvious that I only applied because of the fee waiver and PT offer.

forget duke...just ed and call it a day

Rock Chalk wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:A lot of people on TLS fail to understand how things work and yet make blanket statements about things anyway.

I admit I'm not an expert, but don't matriculation percentages play a part in the rankings also? And wouldn't they be able to use the money they save on ED admissions for non-ED, making them more competitive without changing the total amount of money spent?

You seem to know more about this than I do, but a lot of what is posted here is conjecture and I don't think mine is unreasonable.

Well, it's a fact that UVA's stated policy is to not consider whether an applicant was admitted ED when considering merit aid, and it's a fact that in previous cycles ED applicants have received scholarships as high as approaching full tuition. Those things, I can say are fact and not conjecture.

I've seen this argument on here many times: If they "saved" money by keeping it from ED applicants one year and put it toward RD applicants instead, that would indeed give them an advantage for this one cycle. However, all the adcomms are rather competent lawyers prior to their current jobs (one was a prosecutor, another worked for the federal government) and something lawyers are taught to do is carefully weigh the long-term consequences of their actions. In this case, doing what you're suggesting would undermine their current goal of encouraging ED applications, because once word got out that they'd suddenly started withholding money from ED applicants, folks who might have ED'd before would stop doing so. Their word would no longer have any meaning, so even if they said they'd resume doing so, nobody would believe them.

Law schools have reputations to worry about, and they tend to make their changes in admissions cycles based on the long-term effects they will have. UVA's concern isn't just grabbing more quality applicants this cycle, it's grabbing quality applicants in every cycle going forward. That mission is accomplished easier if they can get more folks with high numbers to ED, and that won't happen if those folks can't get money by going ED to UVA and hold out for scholarship money elsewhere.

Your outlook isn't unreasonable if you're only considering the effects that such a change would have on this cycle. Adcomms have to look at things more long-term.

jmaan wrote:

musclemilk2 wrote:

jmaan wrote:

musclemilk2 wrote:thanks for the quick answers! i just want to make sure, if i wait a couple weeks and see where i get in and get waitlisted at UVA in the meantime I can't ED after that right to show them I will go if admitted?

i faced this decision last week with lesser numbers...if youd be absolutely fine at UVa and wouldnt regret possibly missing out on ccn (bmp is pretty much the same as v) then fax in a form and you'll get a phone call the very next day ending ur cycle

yeuh i dont think i would be happy at ccn. i am a pretty big prestige whore, but i just dont like the long winters, cold weather, and HUGE cities i feel like ccn would bring, and honestly while UVa may not have all the lay prestige of columbia its a pretty damn great school. ive got a lot of thinking to do but im leaning towards that ED. its very exciting.

thats what i did and im very happy with my decision...think about it..sooner u sign, sooner u can look for a place and wat not.

Same here

Why would you ED anywhere with those numbers?