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If one has no desire to work in California, is Berkeley worth sticker if it is not the only T-10 school one has gotten into?

I ask for several reasons...
1. New hike in tuition makes it substantially more expensive
2. I have frequently read on this board that Berkeley is over-rated. Yet, it seems there are a significant amount of board members hoping they get in
3. Does the frequency of the aforementioned change when talking about 3.8+ and 172+ applicants. ie are these applicants more interested in other schools, holding Berkeley as a "safety of sorts"


Thanks!

curious as to the responses.. tagged

I am also trying to decide whether or not it is worth it. I am a resident who got in, but I really want to experience something new and possibly end up in New York. I talked to a Berkeley 2L today who is my brother's friend, so I am just passing along what I learned. He told me that over 90 percent of the employers who showed up at the On Campus Interviews were from California. He also told me that the 10 percent of out-of-state employers at the On Campus Interviews were mainly IP. Since I am not pursuing IP, this is problematic. He told me that if I wanted to work on the East Coast or in the Midwest, that I should go to another top 14 school that places better in these regions and has more employers from these regions because people have to do a lot more legwork to get jobs outside of On Campus Interviews.

I would assume people with 3.8+, 172+ tend to prefer other schools with higher LSAT ranges because Berkeley's LSAT range is 164 - 168 - 170.

Dominusfiki wrote:If one has no desire to work in California, is Berkeley worth sticker if it is not the only T-10 school one has gotten into?

I ask for several reasons...
1. New hike in tuition makes it substantially more expensive
2. I have frequently read on this board that Berkeley is over-rated. Yet, it seems there are a significant amount of board members hoping they get in
3. Does the frequency of the aforementioned change when talking about 3.8+ and 172+ applicants. ie are these applicants more interested in other schools, holding Berkeley as a "safety of sorts"


Thanks!

171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

no. withdraw your applications asap and let me pay sticker $$$$$.

cavebat2000 wrote: 171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.

Dominusfiki wrote:If one has no desire to work in California, is Berkeley worth sticker if it is not the only T-10 school one has gotten into?

I ask for several reasons...
1. New hike in tuition makes it substantially more expensive
2. I have frequently read on this board that Berkeley is over-rated. Yet, it seems there are a significant amount of board members hoping they get in
3. Does the frequency of the aforementioned change when talking about 3.8+ and 172+ applicants. ie are these applicants more interested in other schools, holding Berkeley as a "safety of sorts"


Thanks!

As something to keep in mind, Berkeley's tuition master plan is supposedly to stay 10% below cost of peer schools for residents. Hard to stay if this will pan out, since Berkeley is the only t-10 school I can find which has posted 2010-2011 tuition rates, but I would be surprised if most schools do not match Berkeley's tuition or surpass it when they finally release tuition rates for 2010-11 (usually late in the spring).

spritecan wrote:I am also trying to decide whether or not it is worth it. I am a resident who got in, but I really want to experience something new and possibly end up in New York. I talked to a Berkeley 2L today who is my brother's friend, so I am just passing along what I learned. He told me that over 90 percent of the employers who showed up at the On Campus Interviews were from California. He also told me that the 10 percent of out-of-state employers at the On Campus Interviews were mainly IP. Since I am not pursuing IP, this is problematic. He told me that if I wanted to work on the East Coast or in the Midwest, that I should go to another top 14 school that places better in these regions and has more employers from these regions because people have to do a lot more legwork to get jobs outside of On Campus Interviews.

I would assume people with 3.8+, 172+ tend to prefer other schools with higher LSAT ranges because Berkeley's LSAT range is 164 - 168 - 170.

So ITE even Berkeley is a regional school.

To answer OP, yes Berkeley is still worth it and I'm sure there are thousands who are willing to pay 60K for Berkeley.

Dominusfiki wrote:If one has no desire to work in California, is Berkeley worth sticker if it is not the only T-10 school one has gotten into?

I'm a pretty huge Boalt fan, but considering the bolded phrases above, it doesn't sound like a prudent choice for you -- regardless of how everyone weighs in on it being "worth" sticker.

I don't know where you DO want to work, but if we're talking anywhere on the East coast, I'll bet your other T10 option(s) will do you better in that regard.

Dominusfiki wrote:If one has no desire to work in California, is Berkeley worth sticker if it is not the only T-10 school one has gotten into?

What other T10 school (or schools) did you get into?

And, if you don't want to work in California, where do you want to work?

If you answer these two questions, you're going to get much more meaningful advice on here.

spritecan wrote:

cavebat2000 wrote: 171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.

I second that CN>B (having received that semi-ding today called FR), but I am just curious why C would be your dream school, but not NYU? I thought they are pretty much twins? I mean, they are not like H/S, where one is small, suburban and sunny, and the other huge, urban and cold. Is it the Ivy sticker? The campus? Or something else? I am asking because they look exactly the same to me except stuff like neighborhood, "atmosphere" etc. I thought though these would be things in "like more" category, not "dream" category. Care to elaborate?

If Berkeley is the ONLY T10 you get into, then by all means, go. I'm not sure where people get this idea that if an employer doesn't come to OCI at a T10, that they're not interested in students from that school at all. You can mass mail firms. Yes, it's more work than just stumbling into an interview at the school but the majority of law students don't just rely on OCI. They may not find it worth it to come all the way to Berkeley if they know that on average, Berkeley students don't choose to go to their market. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested in you if you showed interest. Even on the east coast, the Berkeley name would get you farther than a lower ranked school. I'm sure someone is going to jump in and compare Berkeley to MVP or other T10s which might place better out east, but as OP didn't get into those, that would be pointless.

I'm not staying in California, and I picked Berkeley. Just spend your summers elsewhere.

IMO, if you have no desire to stay on the West Coast, you should choose another T10. Penn places well in NYC, UVA in DC and the South, and Michigan in the Midwest and NYC. Michigan and UVA will definitely be cheaper than Berkeley with the COA increases.

worldtraveler wrote:I'm sure someone is going to jump in and compare Berkeley to MVP or other T10s which might place better out east, but as OP didn't get into those, that would be pointless.

But OP did get into another T10 (although we don't know which one, and where he/she wants to live if not California).

Either way, though, OP, I would certainly say that you can't go wrong with Berkeley. A lot of people will tell you that Boalt's high placement in California is due to self-selection, and I would believe that.

Fevsi wrote:

spritecan wrote:

cavebat2000 wrote: 171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.

I second that CN>B (having received that semi-ding today called FR), but I am just curious why C would be your dream school, but not NYU? I thought they are pretty much twins? I mean, they are not like H/S, where one is small, suburban and sunny, and the other huge, urban and cold. Is it the Ivy sticker? The campus? Or something else? I am asking because they look exactly the same to me except stuff like neighborhood, "atmosphere" etc. I thought though these would be things in "like more" category, not "dream" category. Care to elaborate?

How is faculty review a semi-ding? I thought the majority of people get in that way.

democrattotheend wrote:How is faculty review a semi-ding? I thought the majority of people get in that way.

The acceptance rate is slightly higher, but your chances take a dramatic hit if you have decent numbers since most seem to think that they basically get thrown out. It's all about softs.

spritecan wrote:

cavebat2000 wrote: 171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.

Yeah, Berkeley seems to be doing straight dings that are more like YP this year... just rejected with 172+, 3.90+ recently

Na_Swatch wrote:

spritecan wrote:

cavebat2000 wrote: 171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.

Yeah, Berkeley seems to be doing straight dings that are more like YP this year... just rejected with 172+, 3.90+ recently

Berkeley doesn't YP. They've consistently had one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country in recent cycles. They care about a lot more than numbers.

Conventional wisdom among credentialed observers of the UC school system is that Berkeley is not worth the new COA.

los blancos wrote:

Na_Swatch wrote:

spritecan wrote:

cavebat2000 wrote: 171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.

Yeah, Berkeley seems to be doing straight dings that are more like YP this year... just rejected with 172+, 3.90+ recently

Berkeley doesn't YP. They've consistently had one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country in recent cycles. They care about a lot more than numbers.

TITCR.

los blancos wrote:

Na_Swatch wrote:

spritecan wrote:

cavebat2000 wrote: 171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.

Yeah, Berkeley seems to be doing straight dings that are more like YP this year... just rejected with 172+, 3.90+ recently

Berkeley doesn't YP. They've consistently had one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country in recent cycles. They care about a lot more than numbers.

They also have by far the lowest LSAT ranges for a top 8 school. There is probably some selectivity in regards to applicants who most likely won't get into other T6's so that they will be much more likely to matriculate at Berkeley. Thus not a direct YP of high numbers, but more of an admissions bent towards high GPA, lower LSAT type applicants.

I also didn't do the tailored PS for Berkeley so that couldn't have helped.

T14_Scholly wrote:Conventional wisdom among credentialed observers of the UC school system is that Berkeley is not worth the new COA.

Credentialed? Why don't you name these observers and tell us what their credentials are?

I am considering (and leaning towards) taking Berkeley over Chicago and NYU even if they are all at sticker. Also considering taking Berkeley at sticker over UVA with 90,000. Berkeley does very well in California BigLaw (and also gets OCIs from every top firm including Cravath and WLRK), academia, and PI.

Depends on what your interests are. If you're interested in BigLaw and get a big scholarship to MVPDCNG and have to pay sticker at Berkeley, I'd go to one of the other choices. But Berkeley's LRAP is good enough that if you're planning to do PI / government work, it is probably still cheaper to attend Berkeley than MVPDCNG (exception maybe Michigan) even with a huge scholarship. If you're in between, I think Berkeley is more well-rounded than most of those schools (once again, the exception might be Michigan).

in before rampant anti-UCB trolling.

Na_Swatch wrote:They also have by far the lowest LSAT ranges for a top 8 school. There is probably some selectivity in regards to applicants who most likely won't get into other T6's so that they will be much more likely to matriculate at Berkeley. Thus not a direct YP of high numbers, but more of an admissions bent towards high GPA, lower LSAT type applicants.

I also didn't do the tailored PS for Berkeley so that couldn't have helped.

I got in with a 173 / 3.91 and my numbers twin was accepted with a 173 / 3.93.