Yale v. Stanford Forum

[tinman]

Like you said, though, Yale is Yale. I don't know enough about environmental law, but I would imagine that even with environmental West Coast law, Yale gives you the best prospects.

For what it's worth, Yale is great in environmental law. Not only do we have an environmental law clinic (which you could join second semester and do for seven semesters if you wanted!) and a couple dedicated faculty, but Yale also has the Forestry School (and it's easy to cross-register there).

I'm sure Stanford has more alumni working in environmental law in California (and this is definitely a factor to consider), but Yale can certainly teach you plenty about environmental law. And if you decide not to do CA environmental law or not to work in Northern Cali, Yale might be a better choice for you.

Good luck.

[crackberry]

Like you said, though, Yale is Yale. I don't know enough about environmental law, but I would imagine that even with environmental West Coast law, Yale gives you the best prospects.

For what it's worth, Yale is great in environmental law. Not only do we have an environmental law clinic (which you could join second semester and do for seven semesters if you wanted!) and a couple dedicated faculty, but Yale also has the Forestry School (and it's easy to cross-register there).

I'm sure Stanford has more alumni working in environmental law in California (and this is definitely a factor to consider), but Yale can certainly teach you plenty about environmental law. And if you decide not to do CA environmental law or not to work in Northern Cali, Yale might be a better choice for you.

Good luck.

Yeah I was going to bring up the School of Forestry. How easy/hard would it be for me to weasel my way into that with no science background to speak of? Any idea?

[tinman]

Like you said, though, Yale is Yale. I don't know enough about environmental law, but I would imagine that even with environmental West Coast law, Yale gives you the best prospects.

For what it's worth, Yale is great in environmental law. Not only do we have an environmental law clinic (which you could join second semester and do for seven semesters if you wanted!) and a couple dedicated faculty, but Yale also has the Forestry School (and it's easy to cross-register there).

I'm sure Stanford has more alumni working in environmental law in California (and this is definitely a factor to consider), but Yale can certainly teach you plenty about environmental law. And if you decide not to do CA environmental law or not to work in Northern Cali, Yale might be a better choice for you.

Good luck.

Yeah I was going to bring up the School of Forestry. How easy/hard would it be for me to weasel my way into that with no science background to speak of? Any idea?

If you are asking about a joint degree with Forestry, I think it would be pretty easy. And I don't think you need to worry about it once you are here. Yale is very flexible with joint degrees, very flexible in general. But honestly, I don't really see the point in getting a joint environmental degree. A law degree should be enough for anything. And forestry students take the environmental law classes and many law students take classes at the Forestry school, so it would be very easy to integrate with the community here. I think our biggest selling point is being able to work on the environmental law clinic every semester (after our first). I know Stanford will let you do a clinic as your only thing for one semester, but people at Yale pretty much do this de facto all the time, for multiple semesters. If you actually want to practice environmental law, I think you can get the most (practical) experience here. And if you don't like practicing environmental law, it would be good to figure that out too second semester.

Also, I can't tell you how great the no grade thing is. Lower stress makes up for worse weather in my opinion.

I debated the Stanford/Yale thing a lot last year. Check out my previous posts to find some discussions about the two that you might find helpful.
For example, check out Zabagabe's posts after the ASWs last year. He was a Stanford undergrad who ended up choosing YLS (he will be starting here this year)
Stanford's ASW: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=300
Yale's http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=925

[crackberry]

Appreciate it, tinman. Very helpful.

[notanumber]

I know some kids who graduated from the school of forestry. They're brilliant and do really sophisticated work. One of them is a social scientist with no 'hard science' background to speak of so I can't imagine that the admissions folk or coursework would hold you back for that.

If you go to Yale, do it because the program excites you and you'd like to live in New Haven. Don't do it for the name.

People here obsess WAY too much about rankings and "prestige." You can do whatever the hell you want with either a Stanford or a Yale degree - both will leave open whatever doors you want to walk through.

I didn't even apply to Stanford because I know that Palo Alto wouldn't work for me (if the school were in San Francisco, though, it would have been an entirely different matter).

[crackberry]

I guess what it comes down to is this: I probably won't get in to Yale (in which case this decision [or lack thereof] becomes very easy), but if I do, I'll have to make sure I visit Yale and talk to people in my field of interest before I even think about making a choice.

Thanks guys. I appreciate being able to bounce my thoughts around.

[Dignan]

Umm wait Crackberry why are you still writing LOCI to H then? I decided I liked a school I was admitted to better than S so I didn't even end up applying to S after I made that decision...

I already had my JR1. I figured I might as well follow through with a LOCI; it wasn't that hard and the minimal amount of effort was worth it to me to see it through.

Do we think one school has the advantage over the other as far as clerking on the 9th Circuit (in other words, just how big is Yale's clerking advantage when compared to Stanford's geographic advantage for the 9th Circuit)? I know Yale is TCR for SCOTUS, but I don't think anyone can plan on SCOTUS, and if I do a clerkship, I'm nearly positive I want to be on the 9th Circuit.

This is speculation, but I imagine that SLS places better in the 9th Circuit. First, here is a chart that you've probably seen before:

http://lawclerkaddict2009.blogspot.com/ ... chart.html

For all circuits combined, SLS actually outplaced YLS (and HLS) in 2009. The chart does not include a breakdown by circuit. However, when HLS and YLS partisans see this kind of data, their response is usually along the lines of: "These figures are misleading because Stanford gets the 9th circuit almost entirely to itself," the implication being that SLS utterly dominates 9th circuit COA placement.

If your goal is to land a COA clerkship anywhere you can get one, then Yale is probably the best choice. But if your goal is to get a clerkship in the 9th circuit, I'm not sure the question is even close: you want Stanford.

[crackberry]

Hey Dignan, how'd you end up feeling about your 250?

[Dignan]

Hey Dignan, how'd you end up feeling about your 250?

PM'd you.

[abl]

Starstruck--

Neither schools "have grades." Both, however, provide enough performance indicators (ie: Hs) for employers to get a sense for who falls within what quarter of the class.

Tinman--

Actually, having science degrees can be very important for Environmental Law (and it's becoming more and more so). The OP should think about a joint degree regardless of where he (she?) ends up. Stanford has the IPER program (http://e-iper.stanford.edu/home) which provides a joint JD-MS in the Environment and Resources in no extra time at no extra cost. I don't know much about Yale's offerings in this department--how many law classes do you have to sacrifice to get a joint degree? Can you get it in 3 years? Do you have to pay more?

Additionally, at Stanford you have the option of continuing on with clinics for ~3 credits after doing a clinical quarter. Ask any lawyer if you'll get more experience working on cases full time, or doing it as a 3rd or 4th case. I don't think there's a whole lot of question that, if you want, you can get more clinical experience at Stanford than about just about anywhere else (full time clinical quarter + continuing on as an "advanced clinic" student along side of your other classes).

OP--

To some extent, the above is all beside the point. There are little factors here and there that might make one school seem to stand out more than the other (Stanford's better for the 9th Circuit, Yale's better for the 2nd...etc), but none of these are nearly as important as your performance at either school, which is going to be pretty heavily influenced by your happiness. The sense I get is that most students at both schools are pretty happy (at least that's the case at Stanford), but there's also a ton of self-selection going on between the schools--I don't know that necessarily everyone at Stanford would be happy at Yale, or vice versa. It's SO easy to get caught up in the "nitty gritty" of things, especially on this board--the fact is that a 3% advantage in clerkship placement here, or a 4 point environmental ranking advantage there (yes, I just made up those numbers) is just not going to impact your experience, performance, or job prospects in any noticeable way. Your happiness, however, will.

[democrattotheend]

Go wherever you think you'll be happiest. The (arguable) marginal boost in prospects you'll get from Yale will be far outweighed by your marginally worse performance if you don't like Yale. In other words, top 1/3 at Stanford beats out median at Yale, and you'd be shocked at how little a difference there is between top 1/3 and median at these schools. I'm writing assuming you will like Stanford more, because that's what your posts imply--the converse applies just as much in case you think Yale will make you happier and you're drawn to the Bay Area connections you'll be able to make at Stanford (or Stanford's--I think--slightly better Environmental Law program, although I might be wrong about that). This advice applies to anyone deciding between YHS with the exception of those who think they'll be just about as happy anywhere, which, if you visit all three schools, is somewhat unlikely given their radically different cultures.

How do you even know who is median at Yale? I thought their grading system makes it impossible to rank.

[T14_Scholly]

This is a stupid thread. You haven't gotten in.

[Tangerine Gleam]

This is a stupid thread. You haven't gotten in.

Ahhh...long time, no see. T14_Scholly is always reliable for a nice contribution to any thread.

[crackberry]

This is a stupid thread. You haven't gotten in.

Excuse me for posting a hypothetical on TLS. I recognize I am the first person ever to do so.

[skynet]

This is a stupid thread. You haven't gotten in.

Excuse me for posting a hypothetical on TLS. I recognize I am the first person ever to do so.

I wish there were an internet shorthand I could use to express the fact that I approve of what you just said and that it made me laugh out loud.

[BioEBear2010]

This is a stupid thread. You haven't gotten in.

Excuse me for posting a hypothetical on TLS. I recognize I am the first person ever to do so.

I wish there were an internet shorthand I could use to express the fact that I approve of what you just said and that it made me laugh out loud.

+1ol?

[crackberry]

This is a stupid thread. You haven't gotten in.

Excuse me for posting a hypothetical on TLS. I recognize I am the first person ever to do so.

I wish there were an internet shorthand I could use to express the fact that I approve of what you just said and that it made me laugh out loud.

+1ol?

I was thinking maybe +1

[T14_Scholly]

You're not the first, but they were all stupid.

[adameus]

As has been said earlier, I think the decision will be much easier when/if you are accepted. I know for me personally I said there was very little chance I would attend a school in the US even if I got into HYS and then I got into Harvard and now I'd say there is very good chance I will go to the US for school. The fact is the acceptance made things a lot more real for me and a hypothetical became actual and it changed my perspective a ton. My thought that is if Yale = Stanford right now, a Yale acceptance would push you over the edge towards Yale, but I guess you will find out if/when you cross that bridge.

[tinman]

As has been said earlier, I think the decision will be much easier when/if you are accepted. I know for me personally I said there was very little chance I would attend a school in the US even if I got into HYS and then I got into Harvard and now I'd say there is very good chance I will go to the US for school. The fact is the acceptance made things a lot more real for me and a hypothetical became actual and it changed my perspective a ton. My thought that is if Yale = Stanford right now, a Yale acceptance would push you over the edge towards Yale, but I guess you will find out if/when you cross that bridge.

Adameus, did you apply to Yale? I hope so. We love Canadians.

[sayan]

Oh Crackberry, how similar we are. I'm still praying for a Stanford acceptance, and if admitted, will have to face the same tough decision. It really helps to weigh the pros and cons (Managamy helped me with this one)...

Stanford -
Pros: Location (both weather and job opportunities/connections), access to Stanford's other academic departments (they are great at letting law students take courses in other disciplines)
Cons: Slightly weaker clerkship opportunities, de-facto grades

Yale -
Pros: The Yale name, clerkship opportunities, no grades
Cons: Location

Remember, though, that you can't go wrong with either. You really need to visit to get a feel for both schools. As Dignan said, go where you will be happiest.

I thought Yale was H/P/L after the first semester. Isn't Stanford the same?

[adameus]

As has been said earlier, I think the decision will be much easier when/if you are accepted. I know for me personally I said there was very little chance I would attend a school in the US even if I got into HYS and then I got into Harvard and now I'd say there is very good chance I will go to the US for school. The fact is the acceptance made things a lot more real for me and a hypothetical became actual and it changed my perspective a ton. My thought that is if Yale = Stanford right now, a Yale acceptance would push you over the edge towards Yale, but I guess you will find out if/when you cross that bridge.

Adameus, did you apply to Yale? I hope so. We love Canadians.

No I didn't but I am slightly regretting it. Do they take late apps?

[badfish]

You should go to Yale. You were a stanford ug and having grown up in new haven i can tell you that it isn't as bad as everyone says. I mean, yes it is bad, but not as bad as everyone says.

[sayan]

As has been said earlier, I think the decision will be much easier when/if you are accepted. I know for me personally I said there was very little chance I would attend a school in the US even if I got into HYS and then I got into Harvard and now I'd say there is very good chance I will go to the US for school. The fact is the acceptance made things a lot more real for me and a hypothetical became actual and it changed my perspective a ton. My thought that is if Yale = Stanford right now, a Yale acceptance would push you over the edge towards Yale, but I guess you will find out if/when you cross that bridge.

Adameus, did you apply to Yale? I hope so. We love Canadians.

No I didn't but I am slightly regretting it. Do they take late apps?

They accepted applications up until 2/15.

[adameus]

As has been said earlier, I think the decision will be much easier when/if you are accepted. I know for me personally I said there was very little chance I would attend a school in the US even if I got into HYS and then I got into Harvard and now I'd say there is very good chance I will go to the US for school. The fact is the acceptance made things a lot more real for me and a hypothetical became actual and it changed my perspective a ton. My thought that is if Yale = Stanford right now, a Yale acceptance would push you over the edge towards Yale, but I guess you will find out if/when you cross that bridge.

Adameus, did you apply to Yale? I hope so. We love Canadians.

No I didn't but I am slightly regretting it. Do they take late apps?

They accepted applications up until 2/15.

yes I realize that, hence me asking if they take late apps. Probably a bad idea, but just wondering. I know Harvard will take late apps.