Villanova v. Pitt Forum

[stayway]

Ok, I narrowed the schools down to Villanova and Pitt in case my waitlist situation doesn't work out. No money information yet on both sides but I just have a feeling Pitt will offer me a little more than Villanova. But I'm not sure because my numbers are horrendous.

My ultimate goal is Biglaw. But I am paranoid for different reasons (not the economy). I want to go into biglaw to make partner and not be an associate for 8+ years.

For Pitt, the job competition IMHO is only with Duquene (forgive my spelling) and maybe Case. However, I've been reading online and some say getting a K&L Gates job for example is extremely difficult for Pitt grads in Pittsburgh (not sure if this is 100% true). My real fear for Pittsburgh is the "diversity" factor. When I mean diversity I'm not talking about the diversity of the law school - I'm sure since it's a "school" it is pretty diverse. I'm talking about Pittsburgh the city. I am Asian American. The diversity aspect that scares me is the obvious glass ceiling Asian Americans face in the corporate world. From my brief online readings I did not find a single Asian associate in the Pittsburgh "biglaw" firms.

I'm leaning toward Pitt because of the lower competition in the market compared to Villanova (its Philly market competing with Temple, Penn, and maybe PSU), but I'm worried that even if I get hired in Pittsburgh biglaw, my prospects for making partner or moving up the ladder will be slim because I'm not "white".

Forgive me if my opinion is completely erroneous. This is just my perspective on things right now. I've always lived in Virginia and the D.C. area so I'm really unsure of other states/cities.

I'd appreciate any input.

[superflush]

Have you visited both Pitt and Villanova?
And spent some decent time in both cities?
I think if you do that, you may get a good idea of which one you'd like.

[stayway]

Have you visited both Pitt and Villanova?
And spent some decent time in both cities?
I think if you do that, you may get a good idea of which one you'd like.

I plan on visiting both during spring break. I've driven through Philly a bunch of times and my roommate right now is a transfer student from Villanova. He is white and told me it's known as "Vanilla-nova" because of its prominent "white" students. But I dont care about the campus being "white" - I do go to UVa after all.

Pittsburgh, I've been reading alot about the city. The city seems great with interesting museums, restaurants, etc.

I'm really good at adapting to cities and new environments so I'm not really worried about the cities themselves. I'm worried about my future career and job. After all, that's why we are going to law school right? To get a secure and nice job (IMHO).

[superflush]

I plan on visiting both during spring break. I've driven through Philly a bunch of times and my roommate right now is a transfer student from Villanova. He is white and told me it's known as "Vanilla-nova" because of its prominent "white" students. But I dont care about the campus being "white" - I do go to UVa after all.

That is the stereotype of the campus, but I think it might be less of a big deal in law school. They new building is really nice. If you haven't visited it, you definitely should.

[stayway]

I plan on visiting both during spring break. I've driven through Philly a bunch of times and my roommate right now is a transfer student from Villanova. He is white and told me it's known as "Vanilla-nova" because of its prominent "white" students. But I dont care about the campus being "white" - I do go to UVa after all.

That is the stereotype of the campus, but I think it might be less of a big deal in law school. They new building is really nice. If you haven't visited it, you definitely should.

yeah.

[Yimbeezy]

I don't know about big firm culture in pgh wrt ethnic prejudice, but the city itself is quite diverse and there are plenty of asian people. Whites in pgh tend to be pretty conservative, but no more than working class whites in philly. I think you'd find pittsburgh and philly similar culturally, though one is obviously bigger and thus has a more outwardly noticeable minority community.

[stayway]

I don't know about big firm culture in pgh wrt ethnic prejudice, but the city itself is quite diverse and there are plenty of asian people. Whites in pgh tend to be pretty conservative, but no more than working class whites in philly. I think you'd find pittsburgh and philly similar culturally, though one is obviously bigger and thus has a more outwardly noticeable minority community.

yeah. according to TLS analysis of Pitt, grads are able to land jobs in DC and Pitt fairly well 65% of them going into private practice.

Sigh. What school would you guys choose if you were in my shoe? Nova or Pitt?

[pjo]

according to TLS analysis of Pitt, grads are able to land jobs in DC

I've heard this too, but to be honest I have yet to ever see any evidence supporting this claim. If anyone had anything supporting this I would really like to see this.

OP, with these two schools being peer institutions if it were me I'd go to 1) whichever is cheaper 2)whatever city I would rather live in. As others have said, these two schools are very similiar and I personally think these are the only two factors that could sway your decision either way.

[stayway]

according to TLS analysis of Pitt, grads are able to land jobs in DC

I've heard this too, but to be honest I have yet to ever see any evidence supporting this claim. If anyone had anything supporting this I would really like to see this.

OP, with these two schools being peer institutions if it were me I'd go to 1) whichever is cheaper 2)whatever city I would rather live in. As others have said, these two schools are very similiar and I personally think these are the only two factors that could sway your decision either way.

maybe I'm just over-analyzing this "diversity" factor in biglaw.

[bees]

Nova lost to unranked UConn. Changes things.

[stayway]

Nova lost to unranked UConn. Changes things.

Nova lacks size. Probably going to end up at sweet 16 and lose.

[Yimbeezy]

I don't know about big firm culture in pgh wrt ethnic prejudice, but the city itself is quite diverse and there are plenty of asian people. Whites in pgh tend to be pretty conservative, but no more than working class whites in philly. I think you'd find pittsburgh and philly similar culturally, though one is obviously bigger and thus has a more outwardly noticeable minority community.

yeah. according to TLS analysis of Pitt, grads are able to land jobs in DC and Pitt fairly well 65% of them going into private practice.

Sigh. What school would you guys choose if you were in my shoe? Nova or Pitt?

I would go to pittsburgh. While biglaw is a hell of a longshot from either school ite, pitt competes only w duquesne in the region and is decidedly better though duq has silly rep thanks to wealthy catholic families, while in philly nova plays second fiddle to temple, with a few pennites who like philly taking their pick at top jobs. Unless you want to go into smaller, lucrative practice in a philly suburb, I wouldn't touch nova with a ten foot pole.

[stayway]

I don't know about big firm culture in pgh wrt ethnic prejudice, but the city itself is quite diverse and there are plenty of asian people. Whites in pgh tend to be pretty conservative, but no more than working class whites in philly. I think you'd find pittsburgh and philly similar culturally, though one is obviously bigger and thus has a more outwardly noticeable minority community.

yeah. according to TLS analysis of Pitt, grads are able to land jobs in DC and Pitt fairly well 65% of them going into private practice.

Sigh. What school would you guys choose if you were in my shoe? Nova or Pitt?

I would go to pittsburgh. While biglaw is a hell of a longshot from either school ite, pitt competes only w duquesne in the region and is decidedly better though duq has silly rep thanks to wealthy catholic families, while in philly nova plays second fiddle to temple, with a few pennites who like philly taking their pick at top jobs. Unless you want to go into smaller, lucrative practice in a philly suburb, I wouldn't touch nova with a ten foot pole.

smaller? suburb? good golly no.

[keemos]

Nova lost to unranked UConn. Changes things.

Nova lacks size. Probably going to end up at sweet 16 and lose.

They lacked size last year and made it to the final four.

[stayway]

Nova lost to unranked UConn. Changes things.

Nova lacks size. Probably going to end up at sweet 16 and lose.

They lacked size last year and made it to the final four.

We all know Gtown will destroy them once more. Probably Cuse too.

But then again Scottie Reynolds is disgusting.

[jack duluoz]

If you're big law or bust, then u should probably retake the lsat. You have roughly a 93% chance of not getting biglaw from both schools. Thus, I would go with the cheapest option. Keep in mind a $10k scholly from nova puts u at sticker from Pitt. COL is most likely going to be lower in Pittsburgh, too.

[stayway]

If you're big law or bust, then u should probably retake the lsat. You have roughly a 93% chance of not getting biglaw from both schools. Thus, I would go with the cheapest option. Keep in mind a $10k scholly from nova puts u at sticker from Pitt. COL is most likely going to be lower in Pittsburgh, too.

not necessarily biglaw or bust (i guess). Let me be frank/blunt here. I am 90k+ or bust. this is oh so confusing.

also no option to retake the LSAT. took it twice. and only improved 1 point.

[bees]

If you're big law or bust, then u should probably retake the lsat. You have roughly a 93% chance of not getting biglaw from both schools. Thus, I would go with the cheapest option. Keep in mind a $10k scholly from nova puts u at sticker from Pitt. COL is most likely going to be lower in Pittsburgh, too.

not necessarily biglaw or bust (i guess). Let me be frank/blunt here. I am 90k+ or bust. this is oh so confusing.

also no option to retake the LSAT. took it twice. and only improved 1 point.

90k or bust = big law or bust ITE

[stayway]

If you're big law or bust, then u should probably retake the lsat. You have roughly a 93% chance of not getting biglaw from both schools. Thus, I would go with the cheapest option. Keep in mind a $10k scholly from nova puts u at sticker from Pitt. COL is most likely going to be lower in Pittsburgh, too.

not necessarily biglaw or bust (i guess). Let me be frank/blunt here. I am 90k+ or bust. this is oh so confusing.

also no option to retake the LSAT. took it twice. and only improved 1 point.

90k or bust = big law or bust ITE

yeah. i know im in an unfortunate situation ITE.

I really have no idea. Maybe the economy will improve by 2013?

[bees]

If you're big law or bust, then u should probably retake the lsat. You have roughly a 93% chance of not getting biglaw from both schools. Thus, I would go with the cheapest option. Keep in mind a $10k scholly from nova puts u at sticker from Pitt. COL is most likely going to be lower in Pittsburgh, too.

not necessarily biglaw or bust (i guess). Let me be frank/blunt here. I am 90k+ or bust. this is oh so confusing.

also no option to retake the LSAT. took it twice. and only improved 1 point.

90k or bust = big law or bust ITE

yeah. i know im in an unfortunate situation ITE.

I really have no idea. Maybe the economy will improve by 2013?

You don't need it to improve by 2013, you need it to improve by the time your OCI rolls around. Also, the amount it'd have to improve for you to score 90k coming out of nova/pitt just isn't going to happen

[stayway]

maybe top 10%? Maybe GW will let me in.

[jack duluoz]

Unfortunately, bees is probably correct. In T2 your best option is to plan on taking whatever job you can get, keep your debt level low, and try to work your way up the ladder.

GW= crazy expensive for not much better chances.

[stayway]

Unfortunately, bees is probably correct. In T2 your best option is to plan on taking whatever job you can get, keep your debt level low, and try to work your way up the ladder.

GW= crazy expensive for not much better chances.

I live in northern virginia so tuition being around 40k could be manageable by commuting (30 min commute via metro). It's my top choice. Visited. Loved it. Absolutely crazy for it. Plus their government procurement program is money.

[badwithpseudonyms]

Dude, I don't see how you're going to come out of either school, make biglaw, not put your years in as an associate, and go straight to partner. I mean, you're just not being realistic with your expectations.

Pittsburgh is an easier nut to crack than Philly, imo. The city is great, imo. And the only reason you probably don't see a ton of Asian partners at Pittsburgh firms is because it's Western Pennsylvania (also imo).

Now to the crux of my presence in this thread: Where was Scottie Reynolds in the 2nd half yesterday?! Nowhere! 4 pts? GTFO!
/bitterness about last year's Elite 8.

[stayway]

Dude, I don't see how you're going to come out of either school, make biglaw, not put your years in as an associate, and go straight to partner. I mean, you're just not being realistic with your expectations.

Pittsburgh is an easier nut to crack than Philly, imo. The city is great, imo. And the only reason you probably don't see a ton of Asian partners at Pittsburgh firms is because it's Western Pennsylvania (also imo).

Now to the crux of my presence in this thread: Where was Scottie Reynolds in the 2nd half yesterday?! Nowhere! 4 pts? GTFO!
/bitterness about last year's Elite 8.

1. I didn't say I won't put in work as an associate. OF COURSE you have to bust your ass for 8-9 years to make partner (IMO).
2. Yeah thats what i was thinking about pittsburgh as well (being easier to "crack" than philly).
3. The location aspect makes sense - that was what i was thinking too. But do you think being asian would interfere with my chances in western penn?
4. I think scottie made that ridiculous game-winning lay up last year (not 100%) sure. He's much more improved this year.
5. I can care less about nova in the tournament. I'm rooting for Cuse