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There have been many topics and posts about Loyola v. Pepperdine v. UC Hastings/Davis as they relate to Big Law, but how about for PI?

I'd like to live in CA, and I really don't care whether I live in N. California or S. California.

I don't know much about Loyola and/or the SoCal market, but I DO know that paying sticker for Hastings is an iffy prospect. I think Loyola is the best bet, especially if you don't have a NoCal/SoCal preference.

Tangerine Gleam wrote:I don't know much about Loyola and/or the SoCal market, but I DO know that paying sticker for Hastings is an iffy prospect. I think Loyola is the best bet, especially if you don't have a NoCal/SoCal preference.

especially for PI

Take whatever school offers you the most money for PI, especially if you are indifferent to their locations.

Definitely go Loyola for PI for no other reason than the cost.

Yeah, I've been leaning more towards the option that will result in the least debt possible, especially with PI in mind.

Thanks for the good input as well. Nothing is more irritating than "Neither - Retake".

Here's my crazy thinking:

Go Hastings. Because you'll still graduate Loyola with more than $114K in debt. (Assuming that you meet any scholarship-retention requirements, that you max out LLS's COA and that you have no other source of law school funding.) Yes, that's half of what you could carry out of Hastings.

But ...

Let's say you go to Hastings and don't do well enough to wring some 2L and 3L $$ from 'em. You pay sticker the entire 3 years. That sucks, truly. But you've paid for a few more open doors (presumably). And if you truly are committed to PI, then IBR takes care of the difference between $114K in debt from Loyola and $200K in debt from Hastings (assuming you can borrow all that in federally-subsidized loans). With IBR, your monthly payment is tied to income, rather than debt load. After 10 years, your debt is gone.

Maybe I'm just nuts.

(Disclosure: One of my hopes is Hastings. ... So, on second thought: Go to Loyola and tell Hastings to give me your seat.)

ozarkhack wrote:Go Hastings. Because you'll still graduate Loyola with more than $114K in debt. (Assuming that you meet any scholarship-retention requirements, that you max out LLS's COA and that you have no other source of law school funding.) Yes, that's half of what you could carry out of Hastings.

My wife is a licensed social worker, so while our income may not be anything to rave about, we will have income to help with COL.

IMHO, I think a visit is really important here. Meet with the financial aid offices, and figure out what the true cost will really be (esp. if the LLS scholly comes with stipulations). I was making a similar decision last year, for PI, and was pondering a lot of the same considerations. I think the kind of PI is important as well, as the LA and SF nonprofit communities look really different.

Just in the interest of giving more information, The National Jurist publishes a PI law school ranking, and LLS is high up on the list after Northeastern. A friend of mine, a 3L at Hastings, gave anecdotal advice that Hastings is very corporate-focused and the PI student community is very small and close-knit.
http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/b ... aw-schools

I ended up doing the un-helpful wait-a-year-and-retake-the-LSAT thing. (Which I’m not recommending, just letting you know)

RadMobile wrote:

ozarkhack wrote:Go Hastings. Because you'll still graduate Loyola with more than $114K in debt. (Assuming that you meet any scholarship-retention requirements, that you max out LLS's COA and that you have no other source of law school funding.) Yes, that's half of what you could carry out of Hastings.

My wife is a licensed social worker, so while our income may not be anything to rave about, we will have income to help with COL.

This could make a difference, but I assume she'd work in either city and defray the costs in both cases. So could that factor be a wash? It's not totally clear to me at what debt level the IBR advantage disappears, but I think it gets kind of tricky once you dip down into sub-$100K territory.

Good luck either way.

Make sure you really look into what the cost of going to the different schools is. For public interest, Hastings is well-known in southern california and places students very well in this area. So is money a concern? Maybe, maybe not. Tuition/COL will be roughly equal, so Loyola will end up costing $85k less. However, you will still need to take out another $80k+ in loans for living and tuition. If you enter income-based repayment under the College Cost Reduction and Access Act, you would end up paying the same amount of money on a typical public interest salary on $80k in loans as you would $180k in loans, given that you get a qualifying public interest job and work there for 10+ years before the remainder of the loans are forgiven. With this in mind, it might be better to go to Hastings if you think going there will give you a better opportunity to find a public interest job you like.

FuzzyKiwi wrote:IMHO, I think a visit is really important here. Meet with the financial aid offices, and figure out what the true cost will really be (esp. if the LLS scholly comes with stipulations). I was making a similar decision last year, for PI, and was pondering a lot of the same considerations. I think the kind of PI is important as well, as the LA and SF nonprofit communities look really different.

Just in the interest of giving more information, The National Jurist publishes a PI law school ranking, and LLS is high up on the list after Northeastern. A friend of mine, a 3L at Hastings, gave anecdotal advice that Hastings is very corporate-focused and the PI student community is very small and close-knit.
http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/b ... aw-schools

I ended up doing the un-helpful wait-a-year-and-retake-the-LSAT thing. (Which I’m not recommending, just letting you know)

Great advice, thanks! I saw that PI Law School ranking from National Jurist as well. Pretty interesting. I think I will end up making a visit and feeling it out.

"What rankings don't say about costly choices"

Informative article for those making similar decisions.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

Glad you posted that, I read it a while ago and meant to find it again.

I wonder how closely this information reflects what will be the outcome for students matriculating this year. At least, in so far as the relative proportions.

This is the kind of information I really need to make some decisions such as USF/SCU, for example. I'm on the fence, but if it looks like more corporate/business law work is open from USF, and I have significantly more money from USF...that kinda tips it.

Great Satchmo wrote:This is the kind of information I really need to make some decisions such as USF/SCU, for example. I'm on the fence, but if it looks like more corporate/business law work is open from USF, and I have significantly more money from USF...that kinda tips it.

I applied to USF as well and got the 26k non renewable scholarship. I called and asked about renewing the scholarship and they said that they have many different scholarships for 2L/3L available. Seemed kinda sketchy. Why not just give me the chance to renew the 26k? Is this the same that you got?

RadMobile wrote:

Great Satchmo wrote:This is the kind of information I really need to make some decisions such as USF/SCU, for example. I'm on the fence, but if it looks like more corporate/business law work is open from USF, and I have significantly more money from USF...that kinda tips it.

I applied to USF as well and got the 26k non renewable scholarship. I called and asked about renewing the scholarship and they said that they have many different scholarships for 2L/3L available. Seemed kinda sketchy. Why not just give me the chance to renew the 26k? Is this the same that you got?

I think that's what they do for scholarship, one year non-renewable (and ya, I got the $26k).

I think they post the scholarships you can apply for in your 2L and 3L.

On one hand, I like the fact that it's guaranteed. With McGeorge, for example, it's $18k/year if I meet the stipulations, so in consideration of McGeorge I have to decide if I want to look at it as $18k, $54k, or somewhere inbetween.

However, with USF, I wouldn't in any way expect to find a scholarship that gives you even close to $26k in 2L or 3L, but that's just my perception (also, I guess it matters where in the class you stand).

Unless you can get LLS to lower that top 30% stipulation, I would say Hastings. Top 30% just scares me a bit. I also got that scholarship, and I was really excited until I realized that I could very well end up having to pay sticker for 2L and 3L. If that was the case (I'm not saying you won't be in the top 30%, but I would personally be afraid to count on it) then you would only end up saving 28k, and I think a Hastings degree is worth far more than that.

forty-two wrote:Unless you can get LLS to lower that top 30% stipulation, I would say Hastings. Top 30% just scares me a bit. I also got that scholarship, and I was really excited until I realized that I could very well end up having to pay sticker for 2L and 3L. If that was the case (I'm not saying you won't be in the top 30%, but I would personally be afraid to count on it) then you would only end up saving 28k, and I think a Hastings degree is worth far more than that.

Great advice. It would definitely be nice to NOT have that sort of pressure. Anyone heard of anyone being successful in their negotiation of this stipulation?

RadMobile wrote:

forty-two wrote:Unless you can get LLS to lower that top 30% stipulation, I would say Hastings. Top 30% just scares me a bit. I also got that scholarship, and I was really excited until I realized that I could very well end up having to pay sticker for 2L and 3L. If that was the case (I'm not saying you won't be in the top 30%, but I would personally be afraid to count on it) then you would only end up saving 28k, and I think a Hastings degree is worth far more than that.

Great advice. It would definitely be nice to NOT have that sort of pressure. Anyone heard of anyone being successful in their negotiation of this stipulation?

I didnt try to negotiate the GPA req. at LLS but I did do so at USD. They wouldn't negotiate the GPA req., only scholarship amounts. Also, a USF transfer at Hastings told me that USF students were way more competitive than Hastings students, either because they were trying to keep their scholarships or because they wanted to transfer up. I would expect this to be true at Loyola as well.

I disagree with the pack here. Take Hastings. There is a HUGE emphasis on PI. I'm not sure where the previous poster got his information, but I would say their is a bigger PI emphasis on campus right now than anything else. Weird how "corporate" could be the main focus of Hastings when they don't even offer Business, Corporate, or Commercial law as a concentration (as do other schools like Davis).

Ask around at Hastings about PICAP and IBR. Also don't forget that you will probably get a Hastings grant of around $10k/year.

Any more advice??

http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... &li=25&g=2

Great data for anyone looking to go to school in California. Seems like Loyola dominates southern California and Hastings dominates northern California.

Take the money and run bro.

...

Loyola all the way no doubt especially for PI. You'd be crazy not to take that over over sticker at Hastings!

hastings is crazy expensive. go to loyola and stop bleeding my government for funds! lol j/k..sorta