Top Law Schools

In honor of my 500th post, a poll!

So here's the deal: Presumably going to be locked out of the T14 (No surprise there. C'est la vie.) and maybe a WL at Vandy, so the above are my best options. I've got some other good acceptances (BC, WUSTL) but no money, and between my fiancee and me we're pushing $100k in ug loans so I'm fairly debt averse at this point. I'm not hell bent on returning to Pittsburgh, but it's the safe and appealing choice because it's close to friends and family with a super cheap COL. My fiancee is willing to work while I'm in school, so COL is sort of a wash as she'll be funding a large portion of it. (Bigger cities = better job opportunities for her, but smaller places = lower COL) I'm open to various career paths, but preferably would like to do big firm stuff.

I'm going to hit up each school to try to have scholarship stipulations removed and/or more money thrown my way. (Any thoughts on the best time to do this? Sooner = more money to give?) I did the need-based essay at ND, and might get something there. Point is: this probably isn't the last poll I'll make on the subject, but I need to start visiting, talking to people at the schools, etc. etc. etc., and I'd like some feedback from the ever-helpful TLS community before I do so.

I think I covered most of the bases, but if anyone has any questions I'm not working today, so I'll be around to respond. I'll list my thoughts on each school in a minute. As I said, feedback in addition to voting is appreciated, but not necessary. Thank you!

Regarding each school:

Pitt is the safest because I can network my ass off, and Pitt grads dominate the market. (Through the first two pages of K&L Gates's Martindale page I counted 25 Pitt grads, 16 Duquesne grads, and 11 Harvard grads) I love the city, the sports teams, and am very comfortable there.

Notre Dame. Okay, here's the thing: While I don't really agree with the university's politics, I was raised catholic and am used to being the only left leaning person in a room. It's no big deal to me. ND is like my little kid dream. They're alumni network is notorious and - maybe not in this economy, but in better times - their grads came out making good money as a whole. Visited once, trying to get there again before making a decision.

BU gives me my best shot at big law (38 firms on NALP vs. 8 in Pittsburgh), and Boston is a cool place. But that's about it. Highest COL. Definitely need to visit.

IUB, the dark horse in this race. The freedom of not having debt is so very appealing to me. IU and Bloomington seem like the quintessential Big Ten campus/college town (which is totally cool with me, as I am a big college basketball fan). But it's pretty much no man's land and from what I've heard, they're 2 and 3L's are getting hammered ITE. Another one I need to visit.

jayzon wrote:oh, and congratulations: those are some good scholarships to some good schools!

Thanks! Each school has some good things going for it, and not one is really a bad price.

First, awesome name. One I've given my sister. I'd go for Pitt, although I'd love to see Pitt lose in everything in every sport for the remaining future. But I picked a school where I wanted to live and knew people, and that has been instrumental in getting me two legal jobs this summer. Unless you have balls out grades, which I obviously don't, it's going to be hard to get people to notice you if you're just a name on a resume. Plus, Pittsburgh has become much nicer in the last 10 to 15 years.

Though you certainly seem to already know this, I'll reiterate: you need to visit each school!
See where you get that 'warm, fuzzy' feeling, and go there. IUB has done a great job, imo, at forcing a lot of good people into making very tough decisions. I think that's what's going to help them overall, getting all the people on the cusp (and just barely out) of the t14 to say, 'free law school? hell yeah!' If nothing else, you've got to visit Bloomington.
Again, congrats on a tough choice. You've got some good options here.

I voted IUB. My second would be BU. I really don't think ND's alumni base has nearly as much pull from the law school as it would with their UG. And I think the differences between ND and IUB are very small. I would only consider ND if they matched your full ride to IUB. Especially with the debt you have, you don't need to be adding needless more for a school with shitty biglaw chances anyway. With comparable job prospects, why not take the money.

If you're really going for prestige, BU is the closest to the upper tiers. I think the biglaw chances out of BU would be appreciably better than from any of the others listed, but they're still not great, and you would be taking a good deal more debt. Maybe try to leverage out more money with them, but otherwise I don't see how you could go wrong with IUB.

None of the schools you listed are world beaters, so I just can't see how paying so much extra would be justified...

Notre Dame.

smalltown wrote:First, awesome name. One I've given my sister. I'd go for Pitt, although I'd love to see Pitt lose in everything in every sport for the remaining future. But I picked a school where I wanted to live and knew people, and that has been instrumental in getting me two legal jobs this summer. Unless you have balls out grades, which I obviously don't, it's going to be hard to get people to notice you if you're just a name on a resume. Plus, Pittsburgh has become much nicer in the last 10 to 15 years.

That is what I like so much about Pitt. Networking and being comfortable are both so crucial.

The SNL 'Celebrity Jeopardy' skits are amazing. I also really like Bill Hader's Dateline skits. If you haven't seen them, they are fantastic also.

RTOTA38 wrote:Though you certainly seem to already know this, I'll reiterate: you need to visit each school!
See where you get that 'warm, fuzzy' feeling, and go there. IUB has done a great job, imo, at forcing a lot of good people into making very tough decisions. I think that's what's going to help them overall, getting all the people on the cusp (and just barely out) of the t14 to say, 'free law school? hell yeah!' If nothing else, you've got to visit Bloomington.
Again, congrats on a tough choice. You've got some good options here.

Thank you. I made a comment in the IUB thread what a great strategy it is to remove all the worries and anxiety that come with taking out loans for huge sums of money at a time when there are no jobs. The ~$35 million gift helped with that, I'm sure, but still. And I am really looking forward to visiting.

starstruck393 wrote:None of the schools you listed are world beaters, so I just can't see how paying so much extra would be justified...

Everything else aside, this is how I'm feeling. Thanks!

I said IUB because you're debt averse. Your point about your SO having better job opportunities in bigger cities makes sense, though--and is something I'll have to take into consideration when I choose my school, too. As long as she can find a good job in Bloomington (and won't be upset at passing up the bigger-name positions...) I think that combination of free tuition and low COL is tough to beat.

Congratulations: This is a decision that many people would love to have to make!

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

smalltown wrote:First, awesome name. One I've given my sister. I'd go for Pitt, although I'd love to see Pitt lose in everything in every sport for the remaining future. But I picked a school where I wanted to live and knew people, and that has been instrumental in getting me two legal jobs this summer. Unless you have balls out grades, which I obviously don't, it's going to be hard to get people to notice you if you're just a name on a resume. Plus, Pittsburgh has become much nicer in the last 10 to 15 years.

That is what I like so much about Pitt. Networking and being comfortable are both so crucial.

The SNL 'Celebrity Jeopardy' skits are amazing. I also really like Bill Hader's Dateline skits. If you haven't seen then, they are fantastic also.

shot you a dirty look?

bitlrc wrote:

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

smalltown wrote:First, awesome name. One I've given my sister. I'd go for Pitt, although I'd love to see Pitt lose in everything in every sport for the remaining future. But I picked a school where I wanted to live and knew people, and that has been instrumental in getting me two legal jobs this summer. Unless you have balls out grades, which I obviously don't, it's going to be hard to get people to notice you if you're just a name on a resume. Plus, Pittsburgh has become much nicer in the last 10 to 15 years.

That is what I like so much about Pitt. Networking and being comfortable are both so crucial.

The SNL 'Celebrity Jeopardy' skits are amazing. I also really like Bill Hader's Dateline skits. If you haven't seen then, they are fantastic also.

shot you a dirty look?

No. A bullet. "ahhhhhh...."

thickfreakness wrote:

bitlrc wrote:

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

smalltown wrote:First, awesome name. One I've given my sister. I'd go for Pitt, although I'd love to see Pitt lose in everything in every sport for the remaining future. But I picked a school where I wanted to live and knew people, and that has been instrumental in getting me two legal jobs this summer. Unless you have balls out grades, which I obviously don't, it's going to be hard to get people to notice you if you're just a name on a resume. Plus, Pittsburgh has become much nicer in the last 10 to 15 years.

That is what I like so much about Pitt. Networking and being comfortable are both so crucial.

The SNL 'Celebrity Jeopardy' skits are amazing. I also really like Bill Hader's Dateline skits. If you haven't seen then, they are fantastic also.

shot you a dirty look?

No. A bullet. "ahhhhhh...."

"And when I came to, my leg was missing."

"...Did you find it?"

blurbz wrote:I said IUB because you're debt averse. Your point about your SO having better job opportunities in bigger cities makes sense, though--and is something I'll have to take into consideration when I choose my school, too. As long as she can find a good job in Bloomington (and won't be upset at passing up the bigger-name positions...) I think that combination of free tuition and low COL is tough to beat.

Congratulations: This is a decision that many people would love to have to make!

Thanks! Even though I doubt I'll make T14, I feel pretty fortunate to have to make this decision. My SO doesn't mind passing up better job opportunities, but she's not sold on Bloomington yet.

I voted IUB because as an earlier post mentioned, I don't see the added expense being justified by the advantages, if any ITE, provided by the other schools on the list. Awesome list and awesome schollys btw, congrats.

wow! people are jumping on the IUB bandwagon.

Based on what you said, it sounds like Pitt v BU. Both have good job prospects (for your stated interests) and big city opportunities. I think something we have to keep in mind is the willingness to not jump on the free ride without considering employment prospects in preferred markets. For you I picked Pitt, but I might pick BU in this situation.

narkizopoint wrote:I voted IUB because as an earlier post mentioned, I don't see the added expense being justified by the advantages, if any ITE, provided by the other schools on the list. Awesome list and awesome schollys btw, congrats.

Thanks! It's nice to know I won't have to pay sticker wherever I end up.

Veritas wrote:wow! people are jumping on the IUB bandwagon.

Based on what you said, it sounds like Pitt v BU. Both have good job prospects (for your stated interests) and big city opportunities. I think something we have to keep in mind is the willingness to not jump on the free ride without considering employment prospects in preferred markets. For you I picked Pitt, but I might pick BU in this situation.

Thanks, Veritas. You know the situation pretty well. BU and ND are more risk/reward in terms of debt/opportunity. IUB and Pitt are safer bets. As always, I appreciate your input.

Veritas wrote:wow! people are jumping on the IUB bandwagon.

Based on what you said, it sounds like Pitt v BU. Both have good job prospects (for your stated interests) and big city opportunities. I think something we have to keep in mind is the willingness to not jump on the free ride without considering employment prospects in preferred markets. For you I picked Pitt, but I might pick BU in this situation.

But remember the 100k in existing debt and his aversion to additional debt. Rack up and additional xx.xx amount (debt by the way relationship killer and the dude has a fiancee involved). My opinion is colored though because I am going to law school with debt in excess of $70,000.00 so a full ride at IUB looks pretty enticing to me.

I feel like I'm using your situation to talk myself away from the full ride at IUB

You still have to start leveraging, right?

I voted for IU and am applying just like you, so I guess take this with a grain of salt. IU can get you good jobs in Cincinatti, Indianapolis, and Chicago. Kirkland & Ellis (in Chicago) likes to hire from there if you're looking for Big Law, and if you're not looking for Big Law, then you're debt free! Although I go to Michigan, I think IU's campus competes with Madison and Ann Arbor for best campus in the Big Ten. But you're not going to law school for a pretty campus, you're going for a great job. Who knows how long this economy will hold up, and the prospect of being debt free from a pretty awesome school seems too appealing to me. At any rate, you don't have a bad choice here at all. Congratulations on your amazing choices!

Veritas wrote:I feel like I'm using your situation to talk myself away from the full ride at IUB

You still have to start leveraging, right?

Haha. Correct, I have yet to try to leverage my scholarship at IUB. Another $10k/yr somewhere would either make the decision easier or more confusing. Could go either way.

OP, it seems like you are pretty preferential to Pitt, and it seems like from what your write you really want either Pitt or BU. A lot of ppl have suggested you trying to leverage more money from ND, and BU but might I suggest you giving Pitt a call to leverage. I know someone on TLS last year was able to leverage 16K a year from Richmond and got Pitt to match it. I doubt it happens often, as you can tell from LSN, Pitt like giving a lot of ppl 12k, or 14k per year but really not much more. I'm just thinking if someone was able to leverage more money from a scholarship at Richmond...which is lower ranked than pitt, I don't see any reason why you don't have a shot at leveraging through the use of the IUB full ride.

pjo wrote:OP, it seems like you are pretty preferential to Pitt, and it seems like from what your write you really want either Pitt or BU. A lot of ppl have suggested you trying to leverage more money from ND, and BU but might I suggest you giving Pitt a call to leverage. I know someone on TLS last year was able to leverage 16K a year from Richmond and got Pitt to match it. I doubt it happens often, as you can tell from LSN, Pitt like giving a lot of ppl 12k, or 14k per year but really not much more. I'm just thinking if someone was able to leverage more money from a scholarship at Richmond...which is lower ranked than pitt, I don't see any reason why you don't have a shot at leveraging through the use of the IUB full ride.

Thanks for the info on the Pitt/Richmond thing. A full ride at Pitt would be 2 out of 3 (no debt, good location, not as great a shot at biglaw/mobility), and would be pretty hard to pass on. I pm'ed you back and if I don't need another poll later in the cycle, will keep this one posted as to how things played out.

samer wrote:I voted for IU and am applying just like you, so I guess take this with a grain of salt. IU can get you good jobs in Cincinatti, Indianapolis, and Chicago. Kirkland & Ellis (in Chicago) likes to hire from there if you're looking for Big Law, and if you're not looking for Big Law, then you're debt free! Although I go to Michigan, I think IU's campus competes with Madison and Ann Arbor for best campus in the Big Ten. But you're not going to law school for a pretty campus, you're going for a great job. Who knows how long this economy will hold up, and the prospect of being debt free from a pretty awesome school seems too appealing to me. At any rate, you don't have a bad choice here at all. Congratulations on your amazing choices!

Thanks! I'm with you all the way on IU's campus (though I haven't seen it in person yet), and there is something to be said for being in an environment you enjoy. The free thing would make me enjoy it that much more. Good luck with your cycle!