Top Law Schools

Which to choose ITE?

JD, Cornell's MBA program isn't shit.

Is "neither" an option?

vanwinkle wrote:Is "neither" an option?

Aye, both would include "Living in Ithaca"

biv0ns wrote:JD, Cornell's MBA program isn't shit.

Please deliberate.
What's the difference between a T14 law program and a T15 business program?

biv0ns wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:Is "neither" an option?

Aye, both would include "Living in Ithaca"

Well, I don't mind living in Ithaca, and both are my "best" options.

NYCornellian wrote:Well, I don't mind living in Ithaca

Whatever's causing that, I'm sure you can have it treated. There have been some true advances in science and medicine lately, it's amazing.

NYCornellian wrote:

biv0ns wrote:JD, Cornell's MBA program isn't shit.

Please deliberate.
What's the difference between a T14 law program and a T15 business program?

People say MBA's are T20. They are wrong. MBA's are T6.

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Kellogg (Northwestern)
3. Wharton (Penn)
5. Sloan (MIT)
5. Booth (Chicago)

After that you might as well go to your local college. You can still increase your business status at Random State U with one of their MBA's. However, you're not getting into Consulting or I-Banking outside of the T6.

biv0ns wrote:

NYCornellian wrote:

biv0ns wrote:JD, Cornell's MBA program isn't shit.

Please deliberate.
What's the difference between a T14 law program and a T15 business program?

People say MBA's are T20. They are wrong. MBA's are T6.

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Kellogg (Northwestern)
3. Wharton (Penn)
5. Sloan (MIT)
5. Booth (Chicago)

After that you might as well go to your local college. You can still increase your business status at Random State U with one of their MBA's. However, you're not getting into Consulting or I-Banking outside of the T6.

Do you mean M7, which includes Columbia as well? So I'm not gonna get into IB coming from Cornell BS, is that right?

NYCornellian wrote:So I'm not gonna get into IB coming from Cornell BS, is that right?

Do you have I-Banking connections? There are always exceptions. I'm speaking for the lay person. If that is not you, and you can get an I-banking gig right out of UG, why even ask about JD vs. MBA? Work for a few years and then test your options.

NYCornellian wrote:Which to choose ITE?

Which are you more interested in? You could always do both. Isn't there a joint program of sorts?

woeisme wrote:

NYCornellian wrote:Which to choose ITE?

Which are you more interested in? You could always do both. Isn't there a joint program of sorts?

Honestly, I don't know, and I don't think I can afford to do both. Need some honest opinions here to decide whether or not I should quit my job.

Thinking of getting into IB/BigLaw, which one will give me a better shot?

Honestly you have a better shot getting into BigLaw than you do getting into I-Banking, as does 99% of the population, unless, as I said, you have some connections we don't know about.

NYCornellian wrote:

biv0ns wrote:

NYCornellian wrote:

biv0ns wrote:JD, Cornell's MBA program isn't shit.

Please deliberate.
What's the difference between a T14 law program and a T15 business program?

People say MBA's are T20. They are wrong. MBA's are T6.

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Kellogg (Northwestern)
3. Wharton (Penn)
5. Sloan (MIT)
5. Booth (Chicago)

After that you might as well go to your local college. You can still increase your business status at Random State U with one of their MBA's. However, you're not getting into Consulting or I-Banking outside of the T6.

Do you mean M7, which includes Columbia as well? So I'm not gonna get into IB coming from Cornell BS, is that right?

Columbia invented the M7 so it can be a part of it. Doesn't count . Columbia MBA is known for leeching off its undergrad prestige. IMHO, both Columbia and NYU provide reasonable access to banking jobs given their proximity to NYC, although biv0ns could very well be correct.

Any T14 law school is better off than Cornell MBA. For a career switcher, a Cornell MBA is frought with risk. You could very well end up back in your original industry rather than pulling off a major career change.

Chances at biglaw are MUCH higher than banking, unless you were/are on the banking "track" already.

You should not be choosing your choice of professional school based on a school's rankings..... You have to decide what kind of career you want to pursue. If you don't know yet, you shouldn't be doing either. Work for a while and return when you have a better idea of what you want to do.
Coming out of undergrad, I had one of those wishy-washy degrees that employers are afraid of because the field is only about 2 decades old and the degree is ill-defined. I decided to go to grad school to get a degree simply to make myself more marketable because my peers were having a difficult time finding jobs straight out of undergrad. I did not enjoy myself. Spending my life alone in a basement lab with a bunch of smelly carcinogens was not my idea of a fun time. I do not regret the degree- it is helping my law school apps! But I had a tough time dragging myself through something I wasn't terribly motivated about... and I was PAID to do it. Imagine taking out all those loans just to find out later that you made a mistake? I spent three years considering law school before I decided that it was definitely what I wanted to do. Think about it carefully, and don't use rankings to determine your choice of career.
Some field-related work experience might help you decide. You might also talk to people who are already working in the areas you're interested in (not a bunch of law school applicants- there's a bit of a bias there). Ask them about their experiences, what kind of work they do, how they spend their day...

blueberrymuffin wrote:You should not be choosing your choice of professional school based on a school's rankings..... You have to decide what kind of career you want to pursue. If you don't know yet, you shouldn't be doing either. Work for a while and return when you have a better idea of what you want to do.
Coming out of undergrad, I had one of those wishy-washy degrees that employers are afraid of because the field is only about 2 decades old and the degree is ill-defined. I decided to go to grad school to get a degree simply to make myself more marketable because my peers were having a difficult time finding jobs straight out of undergrad. I did not enjoy myself. Spending my life alone in a basement lab with a bunch of smelly carcinogens was not my idea of a fun time. I do not regret the degree- it is helping my law school apps! But I had a tough time dragging myself through something I wasn't terribly motivated about... and I was PAID to do it. Imagine taking out all those loans just to find out later that you made a mistake? I spent three years considering law school before I decided that it was definitely what I wanted to do. Think about it carefully, and don't use rankings to determine your choice of career.
Some field-related work experience might help you decide. You might also talk to people who are already working in the areas you're interested in (not a bunch of law school applicants- there's a bit of a bias there). Ask them about their experiences, what kind of work they do, how they spend their day...

Well said. Thanks a lot.

that could be true, but there are those out there genuinely interested in both law and business. If that's the case, he/she should consider the rankings, reputations, and job opportunities across all programs.

I suspect I am not the only one on these boards that would prefer a HBS MBA over a top JD, but a top JD over a BU MBA (no offense to BU, but its true). I am interested in banking, mgmt consulting, etc. but I know that the chance of getting into those fields diminishes drastically outside a top few MBA programs. I would rather be a corporate lawyer than work in general mgmt at a big company, which is where a lower-ranked MBA will take you.

englawyer wrote:that could be true, but there are those out there genuinely interested in both law and business. If that's the case, he/she should consider the rankings, reputations, and job opportunities across all programs.

I suspect I am not the only one on these boards that would prefer a HBS MBA over a top JD, but a top JD over a BU MBA (no offense to BU, but its true). I am interested in banking, mgmt consulting, etc. but I know that the chance of getting into those fields diminishes drastically outside a top few MBA programs. I would rather be a corporate lawyer than work in general mgmt at a big company, which is where a lower-ranked MBA will take you.

This is true. However, I got the impression that the OP was considering one OR the other, and was not financially comfortable doing both. Quitting a job and taking out loans is a big deal. Better make sure you're sure of what you're doing.

biv0ns wrote:

NYCornellian wrote:

biv0ns wrote:JD, Cornell's MBA program isn't shit.

Please deliberate.
What's the difference between a T14 law program and a T15 business program?

People say MBA's are T20. They are wrong. MBA's are T6.

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Kellogg (Northwestern)
3. Wharton (Penn)
5. Sloan (MIT)
5. Booth (Chicago)

After that you might as well go to your local college. You can still increase your business status at Random State U with one of their MBA's. However, you're not getting into Consulting or I-Banking outside of the T6.

+1. Attended a Top 20 MBA program and it was very difficult if not impossible to land I-Banking and Consulting gigs in a similar economic downturn, 2002. Goldman, Morgan, PIMCO, BCG and Mckinsey were not interviewing at my school. Many of my colleagues from my class are struggling or unemployed, 8 years later. My colleagues that did their JD/MBAs in our program (T-20 Law school as well) all landed Big Law positions and are still doing very well and better than 95% of my MBA colleagues. Unless you have unbelievable business contacts, law school appears to be the better option, greater barriers to entry in that field (higher cost, extra year of school and Bar exam). Unless you are an incredible entrepreneur, I believe you have a higher probability of achieving greater financial success coming out of a T10-20 Law School vs. T10-20 MBA program. I've seen these results with my own classmates.

I thought NYU's Stern had a good MBA program too. And by good I mean IB & consulting employment prospects. Not true? Or just not true ITE?

Aeroplane wrote:I thought NYU's Stern had a good MBA program too. And by good I mean IB & consulting employment prospects. Not true? Or just not true ITE?

Schools in NYC always bend the rules a bit. Same as how Fordham places decently in BigLaw. It's just because they're in NYC so there are regional connections.

Aeroplane wrote:I thought NYU's Stern had a good MBA program too. And by good I mean IB & consulting employment prospects. Not true? Or just not true ITE?

from what i understand, nyu stern fuddles a bit with their employment stats. they claim 50% i-banking, but what they really mean is 50% people working at an i-bank. there is a hierarchy from investment banking to "back office" operations, and apparently banks recruit more for those lesser jobs at stern than the straight up i-banking.

similar outcome for consulting. stern grads have a slim chance at the big 3 strategy consulting firms (mckinsey, bain, boston ), but are fine for "operational" consulting firms like accenture.

basically, stern has plenty of connections and you will get a job, but you won't be getting the cream of the crop jobs that the top few mba programs have access to. some of nyu grads obviously make it in the big-name jobs, but the chances are working against you, sort of like pursuing biglaw outside the T14.

It's Cornell.

shadowfrost000 wrote:It's Cornell.

At least it's not Minnesota.

puppins wrote:

shadowfrost000 wrote:It's Cornell.

At least it's not Minnesota.

Good lord do I fucking hear that.