Michigan (sticker) v. BU ($60k) Forum

[DanInALionsDen]

Just to add on to my last post. So much of what I read on here goes directly against what I hear when I talk to numerous lawyers themselves. While I am not located in NYC, DC, Boston, etc. I have come to know many men and women in the profession that are quite successful with degrees from "lesser schools" (top 30-40). They enjoy what they are doing and are quite comfortable. Perhaps this is because they never dreamed of the NYC associate making +$150,000 right out. But that comes with strings attached to (some of which are soul sucking). Anyways, I digress.

Know what is important to you and value that more than what you hear from kids on here. Build relationships with attorneys where you live. Ask their advice. Gather info and make a decision you are comfortable with.

So true. I told a few lawyers I know (some in big firms, some are solos, some in companies, etc) and not one single one recommended picking the full price T-14 over a reputable T25 or T30 that gives me a bunch of money. When I told them the cost of going to a T 14 at full price, they said it is crazy (A few of them went to T14 schools themselves, but none paid full price, except one who went to Harvard, and he still regrets going). We are so wide-eyed on this forum and have no conception of what debt is like. I made a mention of 200K debt and jaws his the floor and these lawyers gasped as they said, "you can't possibly be considering such stupidity, can you?" So I think that pretty much sums up where most lawyers (at least the ones I know) stand on the matter. Its not like you are comparing some TTT regional school to Michigan. BU is highly reputable, especially in New England, and there seem to be a bunch of factors in your situation that justify picking it.

I'm going to guess just from the grammar of the quote "You can't possibly be considering such stupidity" that either you, these lawyers you're sourcing, or both, are not the sharpest tacks in the box. I'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14, because you wouldn't have gone anyway. I know lots of lawyers, professors, professionals, etc, and no ones "jaw hits the floor" over 200k these days. This is the 21st century. Your whole account sounds highly sensationalized and unreliable.

[Kiersten1985]

OP, I did long distance Ann Arbor-Philly while at Michigan. 1.5 hours on a plane sure beat a 4.5 hour bus ride.

To be fair, it doesn't make sense to compare plane to bus. Whether traveling by plane or bus, Ithaca is MUCH closer to Boston/NYC than is Ann Arbor. The advantage Ann Arbor has is that it's cheaper to fly out of without advance notice. Then again, you could always fly out of Syracuse and then there's not much of a difference. Nevertheless, I'm not sure Cornell is really in this race right now anyway.

OP, have you contacted BU on $ yet? Why not ask the advice of your contact in Boston?

My contacts are in NYC actually. No, I haven't asked them about money yet since I wanted to wait until my cycle is over. That way I figure I can give them the total picture re: other acceptances/aid offers. I'm also thinking I should wait until they offer me any need-based aid and then try to work my way up from there.

[awesomepossum]

OP, I did long distance Ann Arbor-Philly while at Michigan. 1.5 hours on a plane sure beat a 4.5 hour bus ride.

To be fair, it doesn't make sense to compare plane to bus. Whether traveling by plane or bus, Ithaca is MUCH closer to Boston/NYC than is Ann Arbor. The advantage Ann Arbor has is that it's cheaper to fly out of without advance notice. Then again, you could always fly out of Syracuse and then there's not much of a difference. Nevertheless, I'm not sure Cornell is really in this race right now anyway.

OP, have you contacted BU on $ yet? Why not ask the advice of your contact in Boston?

My contacts are in NYC actually. No, I haven't asked them about money yet since I wanted to wait until my cycle is over. That way I figure I can give them the total picture re: other acceptances/aid offers. I'm also thinking I should wait until they offer me any need-based aid and then try to work my way up from there.

The problem with doing it that way is that they could have run out of money by that point. My understanding is most places have a budget for scholarships and give them out as time goes on. If they want to give money but they're 'out' then that person is SOL.

[starstruck393]

OP, I did long distance Ann Arbor-Philly while at Michigan. 1.5 hours on a plane sure beat a 4.5 hour bus ride.

To be fair, it doesn't make sense to compare plane to bus. Whether traveling by plane or bus, Ithaca is MUCH closer to Boston/NYC than is Ann Arbor. The advantage Ann Arbor has is that it's cheaper to fly out of without advance notice. Then again, you could always fly out of Syracuse and then there's not much of a difference. Nevertheless, I'm not sure Cornell is really in this race right now anyway.

OP, have you contacted BU on $ yet? Why not ask the advice of your contact in Boston?

My contacts are in NYC actually. No, I haven't asked them about money yet since I wanted to wait until my cycle is over. That way I figure I can give them the total picture re: other acceptances/aid offers. I'm also thinking I should wait until they offer me any need-based aid and then try to work my way up from there.

The problem with doing it that way is that they could have run out of money by that point. My understanding is most places have a budget for scholarships and give them out as time goes on. If they want to give money but they're 'out' then that person is SOL.

This. Last year there were cases of applicants with full rides to higher ranked schools getting nothing offered at lower ranked schools despite being well above 75ths, because the available money had run out and there was nothing the schools could do...

[Blindmelon]

Come back when you know how much $ BU gave you. They give a lot of the 25k/year deals, but very, very rarely give full rides. This decision will completely depend on the debt amount.

[Kiersten1985]

I'm planning on visiting Michigan the second weekend of April now. Just about every attorney and partner I talk to about this at my firm looks at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm even considering BU over Michigan.

I'll update on $$ and what I think about Michigan.

[Puffy]

Wow. Michigan.

[Kiersten1985]

Wow. Michigan.

haha I have been getting these reactions fairly consistently. And love your tar.

[KMaine]

Couldn't hurt to ask Michigan for money. They seemed willing to budge last year when I told them about other scholarship offers. By that time, I had decided against Michigan, though. I understand what you mean about being so far away from Boston, friends and family. Michigan is a long way away. BTW, I voted for Michigan. I think it is a much better school than BU, and I think that median could set you up pretty well for Boston. Good luck.

[motiontodismiss]

Not even a question. Michigan.

Enjoy the frequent flyer miles.

[Kiersten1985]

Couldn't hurt to ask Michigan for money. They seemed willing to budge last year when I told them about other scholarship offers. By that time, I had decided against Michigan, though. I understand what you mean about being so far away from Boston, friends and family. Michigan is a long way away. BTW, I voted for Michigan. I think it is a much better school than BU, and I think that median could set you up pretty well for Boston. Good luck.

Yeah, maybe I'll shoot them an email on Monday about that.

[Kiersten1985]

Couldn't hurt to ask Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry for money. They seemed willing to budge last year when I told them about other scholarship offers. By that time, I had decided against Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, though. I understand what you mean about being so far away from Boston, friends and family. Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry is a long way away. BTW, I voted for Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. I think it is a much better school than BU, and I think that median could set you up pretty well for Boston. Good luck.

Yeah, maybe I'll shoot them an email on Monday about that.

I emailed them on Tuesday and they got back to me today (Thur) with an aid offer!!!

[KMaine]

I am happy Michigan gave you some $. As much as I dislike being out of New England, I think that Michigan is a much better option. You only get to do this once. I would go with Michigan!

[Kiersten1985]

UPDATE: Visited Michigan and glad I did. I know it's ranked higher and all, but it's just NOT for me. Way too far from anything urban, way too much of an undergrad feel, and I have to say, slightly cult-ish in its school spirit. No offense to anyone - everyone I met there was really nice and friendly, I just constantly felt older than everyone around me and I'm pretty sure I was the only person wearing black at many times (as opposed to the bright blue and yellow). I was there for 4 whole days, so I can safely say I got a good feel for it. The law quad is spectacular, the buildings are absolutely gorgeous and the class I sat in on seemed pretty good. But there's just no way I can see myself there for 3 years. I'm too much of an East coast girl and too much of a city person.

BU it is!

[lebroniousjames]

Just to add on to my last post. So much of what I read on here goes directly against what I hear when I talk to numerous lawyers themselves. While I am not located in NYC, DC, Boston, etc. I have come to know many men and women in the profession that are quite successful with degrees from "lesser schools" (top 30-40). They enjoy what they are doing and are quite comfortable. Perhaps this is because they never dreamed of the NYC associate making +$150,000 right out. But that comes with strings attached to (some of which are soul sucking). Anyways, I digress.

Know what is important to you and value that more than what you hear from kids on here. Build relationships with attorneys where you live. Ask their advice. Gather info and make a decision you are comfortable with.

So true. I told a few lawyers I know (some in big firms, some are solos, some in companies, etc) and not one single one recommended picking the full price T-14 over a reputable T25 or T30 that gives me a bunch of money. When I told them the cost of going to a T 14 at full price, they said it is crazy (A few of them went to T14 schools themselves, but none paid full price, except one who went to Harvard, and he still regrets going). We are so wide-eyed on this forum and have no conception of what debt is like. I made a mention of 200K debt and jaws his the floor and these lawyers gasped as they said, "you can't possibly be considering such stupidity, can you?" So I think that pretty much sums up where most lawyers (at least the ones I know) stand on the matter. Its not like you are comparing some TTT regional school to Michigan. BU is highly reputable, especially in New England, and there seem to be a bunch of factors in your situation that justify picking it.

I'm going to guess just from the grammar of the quote "You can't possibly be considering such stupidity" that either you, these lawyers you're sourcing, or both, are not the sharpest tacks in the box. I'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14, because you wouldn't have gone anyway. I know lots of lawyers, professors, professionals, etc, and no ones "jaw hits the floor" over 200k these days. This is the 21st century. Your whole account sounds highly sensationalized and unreliable.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, but you may have some loose ends to tie up yourself before tossing out any grammar stones...

'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14*(,)* because you wouldn't have gone anyway.

[badwithpseudonyms]

[Patriot1208]

So true. I told a few lawyers I know (some in big firms, some are solos, some in companies, etc) and not one single one recommended picking the full price T-14 over a reputable T25 or T30 that gives me a bunch of money. When I told them the cost of going to a T 14 at full price, they said it is crazy (A few of them went to T14 schools themselves, but none paid full price, except one who went to Harvard, and he still regrets going). We are so wide-eyed on this forum and have no conception of what debt is like. I made a mention of 200K debt and jaws his the floor and these lawyers gasped as they said, "you can't possibly be considering such stupidity, can you?" So I think that pretty much sums up where most lawyers (at least the ones I know) stand on the matter. Its not like you are comparing some TTT regional school to Michigan. BU is highly reputable, especially in New England, and there seem to be a bunch of factors in your situation that justify picking it.

I'm going to guess just from the grammar of the quote "You can't possibly be considering such stupidity" that either you, these lawyers you're sourcing, or both, are not the sharpest tacks in the box. I'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14, because you wouldn't have gone anyway. I know lots of lawyers, professors, professionals, etc, and no ones "jaw hits the floor" over 200k these days. This is the 21st century. Your whole account sounds highly sensationalized and unreliable.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, but you may have some loose ends to tie up yourself before tossing out any grammar stones...

'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14*(,)* because you wouldn't have gone anyway.

I like the anecdote of the guy who regrets going to harvard, lol.

[dakatz]

So true. I told a few lawyers I know (some in big firms, some are solos, some in companies, etc) and not one single one recommended picking the full price T-14 over a reputable T25 or T30 that gives me a bunch of money. When I told them the cost of going to a T 14 at full price, they said it is crazy (A few of them went to T14 schools themselves, but none paid full price, except one who went to Harvard, and he still regrets going). We are so wide-eyed on this forum and have no conception of what debt is like. I made a mention of 200K debt and jaws his the floor and these lawyers gasped as they said, "you can't possibly be considering such stupidity, can you?" So I think that pretty much sums up where most lawyers (at least the ones I know) stand on the matter. Its not like you are comparing some TTT regional school to Michigan. BU is highly reputable, especially in New England, and there seem to be a bunch of factors in your situation that justify picking it.

I'm going to guess just from the grammar of the quote "You can't possibly be considering such stupidity" that either you, these lawyers you're sourcing, or both, are not the sharpest tacks in the box. I'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14, because you wouldn't have gone anyway. I know lots of lawyers, professors, professionals, etc, and no ones "jaw hits the floor" over 200k these days. This is the 21st century. Your whole account sounds highly sensationalized and unreliable.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, but you may have some loose ends to tie up yourself before tossing out any grammar stones...

'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14*(,)* because you wouldn't have gone anyway.

I like the anecdote of the guy who regrets going to harvard, lol.

"Regret" may have been the wrong word, but I talked to him about his experiences, and he says if he could do it all over again, he would have tried to find a route that wouldn't have put him into so much debt. He had numerous full ride offers at lower-T14 schools including Penn and UVA that he says he never considered enough and wished he did. So in no way does he "regret" going to Harvard since he did ok there and got a pretty solid job afterward, but it took him a very long time to be able to live comfortably after going 200K into debt.

And I'm a bit confused by the "convince youself that its okay that you didn't get into a T-14 schools because you wouldn't have gone anyway" part seeing as I got into multiple T-14 schools.

[let/them/eat/cake]

can't believe this got revived but i read through it and i am pretty shocked OP actually took BU over Mich with only a 30k difference in aid over three years. CoL in Boston is almost certainly more than in AA right? Hope they be some solid connections.

[lebroniousjames]

And I'm a bit confused by the "convince youself that its okay that you didn't get into a T-14 schools because you wouldn't have gone anyway" part seeing as I got into multiple T-14 schools.[/quote]

Dakatz, this is what you wrote originally:

"I'm pretty sure I've read similar posts from you on other threads, and your desperate and repetitive posting of this message makes you seem, to me at least, like a person trying to convince yourself that its okay that you didn't get into the T14, because you wouldn't have gone anyway."


If you typically are a stellar grammarian and enjoy going on vigilante proofing missions, do your thing. But I think before you attack someone else's grammar, you should know that there is no comma preceding because when used at the end of the sentence.

Congrats on the schools, though.

[oscarthegrouch]

can't believe this got revived but i read through it and i am pretty shocked OP actually took BU over Mich with only a 30k difference in aid over three years. CoL in Boston is almost certainly more than in AA right? Hope they be some solid connections.

According to OP, not enough people wore black at Mich...great criteria for choosing a school.

Also, pretty sure OP went to BU undergrad and worked as a legal assistant at a firm afterwards. Unless legal assistants make house calls for "work," and do a lot more than just working in the office, I'd question how solid the connections are.

[UFMatt]

UPDATE: Visited Michigan and glad I did. I know it's ranked higher and all, but it's just NOT for me. Way too far from anything urban, way too much of an undergrad feel, and I have to say, slightly cult-ish in its school spirit. No offense to anyone - everyone I met there was really nice and friendly, I just constantly felt older than everyone around me and I'm pretty sure I was the only person wearing black at many times (as opposed to the bright blue and yellow). I was there for 4 whole days, so I can safely say I got a good feel for it. The law quad is spectacular, the buildings are absolutely gorgeous and the class I sat in on seemed pretty good. But there's just no way I can see myself there for 3 years. I'm too much of an East coast girl and too much of a city person.

BU it is!

Wow, good for you, OP. It takes guts to overcome the USNWR mentality.

[oscarthegrouch]

UPDATE: Visited Michigan and glad I did. I know it's ranked higher and all, but it's just NOT for me. Way too far from anything urban, way too much of an undergrad feel, and I have to say, slightly cult-ish in its school spirit. No offense to anyone - everyone I met there was really nice and friendly, I just constantly felt older than everyone around me and I'm pretty sure I was the only person wearing black at many times (as opposed to the bright blue and yellow). I was there for 4 whole days, so I can safely say I got a good feel for it. The law quad is spectacular, the buildings are absolutely gorgeous and the class I sat in on seemed pretty good. But there's just no way I can see myself there for 3 years. I'm too much of an East coast girl and too much of a city person.

BU it is!

Wow, good for you OP. It takes guts to overcome the USNWR mentality. BU seems like a great law school. I got in and enjoyed visiting; had they offered me a scholarship I would've been sorely tempted. The completely silent room within the already quiet study area was great.

The USNWR mentality? AKA the get a job mentality? BU is being killed ITE at OCI. Then again, maybe OP does a lot more "work" to make connections, so she would not have to rely on OCI.

[UFMatt]

UPDATE: Visited Michigan and glad I did. I know it's ranked higher and all, but it's just NOT for me. Way too far from anything urban, way too much of an undergrad feel, and I have to say, slightly cult-ish in its school spirit. No offense to anyone - everyone I met there was really nice and friendly, I just constantly felt older than everyone around me and I'm pretty sure I was the only person wearing black at many times (as opposed to the bright blue and yellow). I was there for 4 whole days, so I can safely say I got a good feel for it. The law quad is spectacular, the buildings are absolutely gorgeous and the class I sat in on seemed pretty good. But there's just no way I can see myself there for 3 years. I'm too much of an East coast girl and too much of a city person.

BU it is!

Wow, good for you OP. It takes guts to overcome the USNWR mentality. BU seems like a great law school. I got in and enjoyed visiting; had they offered me a scholarship I would've been sorely tempted. The completely silent room within the already quiet study area was great.

The USNWR mentality? AKA the get a job mentality? BU is being killed ITE at OCI. Then again, maybe OP does a lot more "work," so she actually can get a job at a biglaw firm.

Appropriate username, Oscar

I don't know what qualifications, work experience, or connections the OP has. It's perfectly conceivable that they have a lot more to offer than the standard law applicant. By that I mean they already have a skill set capable of employment with OR without the JD. Takes a lot of pressure off. It's also possible there is a significant other involved and employment considerations are a factor.

[zanda]

UPDATE: Visited Michigan and glad I did. I know it's ranked higher and all, but it's just NOT for me. Way too far from anything urban, way too much of an undergrad feel, and I have to say, slightly cult-ish in its school spirit. No offense to anyone - everyone I met there was really nice and friendly, I just constantly felt older than everyone around me and I'm pretty sure I was the only person wearing black at many times (as opposed to the bright blue and yellow). I was there for 4 whole days, so I can safely say I got a good feel for it. The law quad is spectacular, the buildings are absolutely gorgeous and the class I sat in on seemed pretty good. But there's just no way I can see myself there for 3 years. I'm too much of an East coast girl and too much of a city person.

BU it is!

Wow, good for you OP. It takes guts to overcome the USNWR mentality. BU seems like a great law school. I got in and enjoyed visiting; had they offered me a scholarship I would've been sorely tempted. The completely silent room within the already quiet study area was great.

The USNWR mentality? AKA the get a job mentality? BU is being killed ITE at OCI. Then again, maybe OP does a lot more "work" to make connections, so she would not have to rely on OCI.

I agree. Given that there wasn't a big money difference, taking BU over UM in this economy is nuts IMO assuming you don't have very very very strong familial or some other commitments keeping you from the midwest. Since OP said he wants to eventually raise a family, I assume this isn't the case. I certainly wouldn't put this much weight on how a school makes me feel inside ITE. "Public international law" wasn't terribly likely from UM (nor is it terribly likely from anywhere, really... I'm not knocking UM here), but from BU?