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http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Notre- ... paper.html

Is Notre Dame's student body something to worry about? I've applied there, but wasn't planning on visiting. I'm not a terribly political person, and , if anything, lean to the conservative side, but I've lived in CA for most of my life and am quite scared of living somewhere where anyone could fathom running a "joke" like that. I'm not crazy about painting an entire community on the basis of a single bad incident, but it does make me wonder whether bigotry is tolerated there more than is the norm. Is this just a one-off incident that could happen anywhere?

Space_Cowboy wrote:http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Notre- ... paper.html

Is Notre Dame's student body something to worry about? I've applied there, but wasn't planning on visiting. I'm not a terribly political person, and , if anything, lean to the conservative side, but I've lived in CA for most of my life and am quite scared of living somewhere where anyone could fathom running a "joke" like that. I'm not crazy about painting an entire community on the basis of a single bad incident, but it does make me wonder whether bigotry is tolerated there more than is the norm. Is this just a one-off incident that could happen anywhere?

I think I wouldn't go there, and I would base it on one single bad incident. But I think you can easily find more from that place to justify your apprehension.

kn6542 wrote:

Space_Cowboy wrote:http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Notre- ... paper.html

Is Notre Dame's student body something to worry about? I've applied there, but wasn't planning on visiting. I'm not a terribly political person, and , if anything, lean to the conservative side, but I've lived in CA for most of my life and am quite scared of living somewhere where anyone could fathom running a "joke" like that. I'm not crazy about painting an entire community on the basis of a single bad incident, but it does make me wonder whether bigotry is tolerated there more than is the norm. Is this just a one-off incident that could happen anywhere?

I think I wouldn't go there, and I would base it on one single bad incident. But I think you can easily find more from that place to justify your apprehension.

Law school guides, or something?

Space_Cowboy wrote:http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Notre- ... paper.html

Is Notre Dame's student body something to worry about? I've applied there, but wasn't planning on visiting. I'm not a terribly political person, and , if anything, lean to the conservative side, but I've lived in CA for most of my life and am quite scared of living somewhere where anyone could fathom running a "joke" like that. I'm not crazy about painting an entire community on the basis of a single bad incident, but it does make me wonder whether bigotry is tolerated there more than is the norm. Is this just a one-off incident that could happen anywhere?

Wow that is stunning. Jesus would sooooo not be down with that "joke". Dickwads.

Thanks for sharing though.

You're going to law school. It's like a rich-people right of passage. Wherever you go, there are going to be old-money, religious right, bigoted conservative types. You'll also probably run into a bunch of annoying, bleeding-heart, hipster liberals out to change the world with justice somehow. Whatever the case, I'm sure the student body at Notre Dame contains both, as well as plenty of normal, tolerant, well-adjusted, collegial people. I'd be willing to bet that's the case most anywhere you go. I wouldn't base your decision on that incident.

Notre Dame's student health insurance explicitly does not cover birth control for women unless it is for a medically necessary reason. Also, I think it's in their rules somewhere that they have the right to expel unmarried women who become pregnant while attending.

Such a lovely school.

That link is definitely not reflective of my experience at NDLS and I don't think you can seriously judge a law school by one bizarre event. ND is perhaps more conservative than some other law schools, but it is still pretty liberal like all of academia.

ndirish12 wrote:That link is definitely not reflective of my experience at NDLS and I don't think you can seriously judge a law school by one bizarre event. ND is perhaps more conservative than some other law schools, but it is still pretty liberal like all of academia.

Notre Dame is a not a normal place, nor any place anyone who isn't interested in the psychological mindfuck that is catholicism.

.

Visit! (if you are really interested in the school). Have been on campus, but during the summer. It is a beautiful place (though South Bend is not all that great). It seems that ND is an excellent school but not for everybody. From my experiences (was a Catholic high school teacher), the University does seem to attract some Ultra-Conservative types. Visit!

kn6542 wrote:

ndirish12 wrote:That link is definitely not reflective of my experience at NDLS and I don't think you can seriously judge a law school by one bizarre event. ND is perhaps more conservative than some other law schools, but it is still pretty liberal like all of academia.

Notre Dame is a not a normal place, nor any place anyone who isn't interested in the psychological mindfuck that is catholicism.

Touchdown Jesus doesn't love you.

It's a shame that there are liberal law schools, conservative law schools, parochial law schools, fratty law schools, private law schools, public law schools...having a flavor for everyone is just stupid, right?

To the OP: it's worth the time and expense to visit the school if you're seriously interested in it. Airfare, a hotel, and a day or two to visit is worthwhile if you're considering spending three years there. Once you're on-site, hit up random people to see what they think about the school's culture. The round-trip time you spend there is probably less than what you'll spend searching through a TLS thread that includes the word "bigotry"/other polarizing language to find some quality info.

I was an undergrad at ND in the late 90's so I can't really speak to the current atmosphere but, while I was there, I didn't find the religious influence to be overbearing. Sure, there are crucifixes in the classrooms, no meat in the dining halls during Lent, and you can be expelled for being caught having pre-marital sex (Seriously. I can remember asking my RA the first day if that was a joke) but, although it was around, I rarely felt as though the dogmatic silliness was being thrown in my face. On the other hand, while I wasn't aware of an overwhelming amount of racial bigotry (of course, I'm your average white guy so what do I know.), the unfortunate intolerance for GLBT individuals was palpable, not to mention, school policy. For instance, while I was there, the campus gay and lesbian group was denied the use of school facilities for their meetings. The general reaction I remember around campus ranged primarily from "Gays are sinners and shouldn't be here" to "I'm not a fan of gays but I don't see the big problem in letting them meet on campus". Undoubtedly, there were exceptions but that seemed to be the typical feeling. Generally speaking, the religious kooks there will, at times, raise their ugly heads but this seems be fairly rare occurance. In terms of the law school, I have no idea what the the student body is like although the profs do have a conservative reputation.

LigurianNightmare wrote:I was an undergrad at ND in the late 90's so I can't really speak to the current atmosphere but, while I was there, I didn't find the religious influence to be overbearing. Sure, there are crucifixes in the classrooms, no meat in the dining halls during Lent, and you can be expelled for being caught having pre-marital sex (Seriously. I can remember asking my RA the first day if that was a joke) but, although it was around, I rarely felt as though the dogmatic silliness was being thrown in my face. On the other hand, while I wasn't aware of an overwhelming amount of racial bigotry (of course, I'm your average white guy so what do I know.), the unfortunate intolerance for GLBT individuals was palpable, not to mention, school policy. For instance, while I was there, the campus gay and lesbian group was denied the use of school facilities for their meetings. The general reaction I remember around campus ranged primarily from "Gays are sinners and shouldn't be here" to "I'm not a fan of gays but I don't see the big problem in letting them meet on campus". Undoubtedly, there were exceptions but that seemed to be the typical feeling. Generally speaking, the religious kooks there will, at times, raise their ugly heads but this seems be fairly rare occurance. In terms of the law school, I have no idea what the the student body is like although the profs do have a conservative reputation.

Only guy i know who went there for UG majored in philosophy. He managed to get a degree without knowing what epistemology is. I can't imagine what kind of shitty education they are selling to those kids.

tinsleyc1 wrote:You're going to law school. It's like a rich-people right of passage. Wherever you go, there are going to be old-money, religious right, bigoted conservative types. You'll also probably run into a bunch of annoying, bleeding-heart, hipster liberals out to change the world with justice somehow. Whatever the case, I'm sure the student body at Notre Dame contains both, as well as plenty of normal, tolerant, well-adjusted, collegial people. I'd be willing to bet that's the case most anywhere you go. I wouldn't base your decision on that incident.

This.

I've been there before and can say it's mostly nitrogen and oxygen.

kn6542 wrote:Only guy i know who went there for UG majored in philosophy. He managed to get a degree without knowing what epistemology is. I can't imagine what kind of shitty education they are selling to those kids.

Logic fail.

As long as we're on the subject...

kn6542 wrote:

ndirish12 wrote:That link is definitely not reflective of my experience at NDLS and I don't think you can seriously judge a law school by one bizarre event. ND is perhaps more conservative than some other law schools, but it is still pretty liberal like all of academia.

Notre Dame is a not a normal place, nor any place anyone who isn't interested in the psychological mindfuck that is catholicism.

You are obviously much more enlightened than the persons who drew and published that cartoon... obviously.

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

kn6542 wrote:Only guy i know who went there for UG majored in philosophy. He managed to get a degree without knowing what epistemology is. I can't imagine what kind of shitty education they are selling to those kids.

Logic fail.

Since there was no real conclusion other than "gosh, wtf," it's hardly a logic fail. I specifically stated that I ONLY know one guy who went there. I've no idea what they're really teaching those kids. If you want to make rhetorical assumptions, have at it, but it's a waste of your time.

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

kn6542 wrote:

ndirish12 wrote:That link is definitely not reflective of my experience at NDLS and I don't think you can seriously judge a law school by one bizarre event. ND is perhaps more conservative than some other law schools, but it is still pretty liberal like all of academia.

Notre Dame is a not a normal place, nor any place anyone who isn't interested in the psychological mindfuck that is catholicism.

You are obviously much more enlightened than the persons who drew and published that cartoon... obviously.

It's rather reasonable if you belong to a group that catholics blatantly despise to not want to be around them. Unfortunately, catholics blatantly despise a lot of groups. Also, the idea that catholicism is inconsistent with mental health is not exactly unusual. You might disagree with it, but if that's the case, defend it, don't just pull this routine. Furthermore, anyone "enlightened" doesn't really think all religions and beliefs are equal. That's a fairly untenable and inane position. Catholics can spout whatever they want about their beliefs, so long as they don't fuck with my shit, but I'm entitled to my views as well.

kn6542 wrote:Since there was no real conclusion other than "gosh, wtf," it's hardly a logic fail. I specifically stated that I ONLY know one guy who went there. I've no idea what they're really teaching those kids. If you want to make rhetorical assumptions, have at it, but it's a waste of your time.

If your statement is read literally, I suppose you are technically correct. But it sure seems like a rhetorical trick to me.

kn6542 wrote:It's rather reasonable if you belong to a group that catholics blatantly despise to not want to be around them. Unfortunately, catholics blatantly despise a lot of groups. Also, the idea that catholicism is inconsistent with mental health is not exactly unusual. You might disagree with it, but if that's the case, defend it, don't just pull this routine. Furthermore, anyone "enlightened" doesn't really think all religions and beliefs are equal. That's a fairly untenable and inane position. Catholics can spout whatever they want about their beliefs, so long as they don't fuck with my shit, but I'm entitled to my views as well.

I don't want to argue with you because, frankly, I don't care. I'm no champion of the catholic church, and I pretty much never say anything confrontational to anyone on TLS. You can say whatever you want. But don't give me this song and dance where you make comments as bigoted as the subject of the link you are posting on and then justify your language with tenuous rationale (at one time the idea that skin color correlated to mental capacity was "not exactly unusual") or attacking some straw man where I said all religions and beliefs are equal. (I agree with you that they are not) Just shoot from the hip, so everyone knows where you're coming from. If you - to use your words - "blatantly despise" catholics, say so. The cartoon was abhorrent. My only point was that people shouldn't base their opinions of... how many people are there at ND, like 12k?... 12,000 people based on one cartoon.

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

kn6542 wrote:Since there was no real conclusion other than "gosh, wtf," it's hardly a logic fail. I specifically stated that I ONLY know one guy who went there. I've no idea what they're really teaching those kids. If you want to make rhetorical assumptions, have at it, but it's a waste of your time.

If your statement is read literally, I suppose you are technically correct. But it sure seems like a rhetorical trick to me.

kn6542 wrote:It's rather reasonable if you belong to a group that catholics blatantly despise to not want to be around them. Unfortunately, catholics blatantly despise a lot of groups. Also, the idea that catholicism is inconsistent with mental health is not exactly unusual. You might disagree with it, but if that's the case, defend it, don't just pull this routine. Furthermore, anyone "enlightened" doesn't really think all religions and beliefs are equal. That's a fairly untenable and inane position. Catholics can spout whatever they want about their beliefs, so long as they don't fuck with my shit, but I'm entitled to my views as well.

I don't want to argue with you because, frankly, I don't care. I'm no champion of the catholic church, and I pretty much never say anything confrontational to anyone on TLS. You can say whatever you want. But don't give me this song and dance where you make comments as bigoted as the subject of the link you are posting on and then justify your language with tenuous rationale (at one time the idea that skin color correlated to mental capacity was "not exactly unusual") or attacking some straw man where I said all religions and beliefs are equal. (I agree with you that they are not) Just shoot from the hip, so everyone knows where you're coming from. If you - to use your words - "blatantly despise" catholics, say so. The cartoon was abhorrent. My only point was that people shouldn't base their opinions of... how many people are there at ND, like 12k?... 12,000 people based on one cartoon.

I think catholics have given the world a sufficient basis to distrust them, and that's not bigoted.

I'm sorry some Catholics have obviously given you a bad taste for the religion. The Catholic faith teaches to love all people, regardless of sexual orientation, religion, race, political affiliation, etc. Most people (including some Catholics) don't understand that the official position of the Vatican towards people who are homosexual is one of support, but for various reasons the Church does not support marriage between two people of the same gender (mainly because the Church believes a significant part of marriage is to produce children).

Anyways, on to the cartoon. It was an absolute disgrace! Nobody I know at the law school (or undergrad for that matter) supported that cartoon. The strip has since been discontinued and the editor responsible has resigned. (However, I don't think that the apology letter was sorry enough).

At NDLS we have a great community atmosphere and have people of many different races, religions, sexual orientation, and political affiliation. People actually support one another, hang out together, and help each other learn. Some of my friends at other law schools have told me stories of cut-throat practices such as kicking people out of study groups, stealing outlines, etc. That doesn't happen at ND.

Come and visit. See for yourself.

scholly wrote: The Catholic faith teaches to love all people, regardless of sexual orientation, religion, race, political affiliation, etc. Most people (including some Catholics) don't understand that the official position of the Vatican towards people who are homosexual is one of support, but for various reasons the Church does not support marriage between two people of the same gender (mainly because the Church believes a significant part of marriage is to produce children).

Nobody cares.

Not sure I've ever met a catholic who wasn't fucked up in the head about sex.

scholly wrote:I'm sorry some Catholics have obviously given you a bad taste for the religion.

The only Catholics that have ever given me a bad taste for the religion have been, well, let me see.

All of them.

That probably about covers it.

kn6542 wrote:

scholly wrote: The Catholic faith teaches to love all people, regardless of sexual orientation, religion, race, political affiliation, etc. Most people (including some Catholics) don't understand that the official position of the Vatican towards people who are homosexual is one of support, but for various reasons the Church does not support marriage between two people of the same gender (mainly because the Church believes a significant part of marriage is to produce children).

Nobody cares.

Not sure I've ever met a catholic who wasn't fucked up in the head about sex.

This is sad. It is the few examples that have people like you, and so many others, with this notion that ALL Catholics are "fucked up in the head about sex" ... or are judgmental and belittle others who are not Catholic, or try to instill their beliefs on others. That's just not true. Unless, of course, I am the ONLY exception to the rule. But I really don't give two shits what religion you practice, if any at all. I don't care how many people you sleep with. My personal beliefs are just that... personal. Not all Catholics try to push their views on others.

If there was even one person at NDLS who laughed at that cartoon or thought it was okay to publish, I would be shocked.

scholly wrote:If there was even one person at NDLS who laughed at that cartoon or thought it was okay to publish, I would be shocked.

We know more than one person did, because someone drew it, someone accepted it, and someone edited/typeset it before it was printed. Are you now?